Yale Class of 2013 Forum

[rabbit9198]

Thanks Kalessebo, that was a really great post. I was wondering about the Supreme Court Clinic. I know it's a competitive clinic (are they all competitive?); can you join it your second semester? Also, you mentioned the writing practice benefits from clinics; are they as pronounced in the Supreme Court Clinic, or do the students do less writing there?

Generally, you can't join the Supreme Court clinic till your 2L year, and it's a two-semester commitment. While there is an application process involved, a good number of clinic members are 2Ls (I think this year, it's about 2/3 2Ls and 1/3 3Ls). They definitely do their fair share of writing; in fact, many of them satisfy one of YLS's two "major writing requirements" through the clinic.

[duodora]

Wow--this thread is really great--thanks to the current Yale students who are taking the time to answer so many questions!

Just have a few questions to throw out there

1. Any thoughts about environmental law? I'm looking to do a joint degree w/ the forestry school.

2. Does there seem to be any difference with the people straight out of undergrad versus the people who have taken time off? Is this a problem?

3. This one is pretty silly--but how do people find roommates? At one point someone mentioned that people sometimes sign leases as ASW--is it just word of mouth or does YLS help at all?

Thanks!

[tinman]

Wow--this thread is really great--thanks to the current Yale students who are taking the time to answer so many questions!

Just have a few questions to throw out there

1. Any thoughts about environmental law? I'm looking to do a joint degree w/ the forestry school.

Esty and Kysar, the main environmental law profs, are great by most accounts. You probably know more about the forestry school than I, but I know it's very easy to take classes at the forestry school even if you don't pursue the joint degree. Many forestry classes have law students and many environmental law class have forestry students. Also, Yale is the only school in the country where you can join the environmental law clinic second semester and do it for five semesters if you wanted!

2. Does there seem to be any difference with the people straight out of undergrad versus the people who have taken time off? Is this a problem?

Yes, the people who have taken time off are generally older. This is likely a problem for them as they will suffer health problems and die sooner. Some of them have gray hair. And many were alive for the first season of ThunderCats.

Seriously though, I'm on the older side (late 20s). Those of us who are older and non-married have a lot of fun, and we have a lot of friends straight out of undergrad. The social sense here is great. I'm not sure what other problems you could mean, but I think Yale does a great job of assembling a mixed group of students.

3. This one is pretty silly--but how do people find roommates? At one point someone mentioned that people sometimes sign leases as ASW--is it just word of mouth or does YLS help at all?

Most people find roommates 1) through the Facebook group for admits 2) at the ASW or 3) through people they know from other contexts. YLS helps by setting up the Facebook group. Admissions officers also post apartment information and roommate requests from 2- and 3Ls on Facebook.

[bgc]

Yes, the people who have taken time off are generally older. This is likely a problem for them as they will suffer health problems and die sooner. Some of them have gray hair. And many were alive for the first season of ThunderCats.

ThunderCats had more than one season?

[Pausanias]

There were four seasons, and a movie. And I was Lion-O for Halloween in 1987.

[duodora]

Esty and Kysar, the main environmental law profs, are great by most accounts. You probably know more about the forestry school than I, but I know it's very easy to take classes at the forestry school even if you don't pursue the joint degree. Many forestry classes have law students and many environmental law class have forestry students. Also, Yale is the only school in the country where you can join the environmental law clinic second semester and do it for five semesters if you wanted!

Thanks for the info! I'm definitely excited about the clinic (and how many semesters you can take it)!

Yes, the people who have taken time off are generally older. This is likely a problem for them as they will suffer health problems and die sooner. Some of them have gray hair. And many were alive for the first season of ThunderCats.

Seriously though, I'm on the older side (late 20s). Those of us who are older and non-married have a lot of fun, and we have a lot of friends straight out of undergrad. The social sense here is great. I'm not sure what other problems you could mean, but I think Yale does a great job of assembling a mixed group of students.

Haha--I wasn't sure if the people who had taken time off would be older than those straight out of undergrad--thanks for the clarification

I just realized the question I asked was ridiculously vague--what I was trying to figure out was if there was a big divide (maturity wise, socially, whatever) between the people who have taken time off and the people that are straight out of undergrad--but I think this answers it!

Most people find roommates 1) through the Facebook group for admits 2) at the ASW or 3) through people they know from other contexts. YLS helps by setting up the Facebook group. Admissions officers also post apartment information and roommate requests from 2- and 3Ls on Facebook.

Oooh--I totally forgot about the facebook group I'm not on fb much--but that's good thinking.

Thanks so much for answering my questions--I really appreciate it and can't *wait* to visit for ASW!

[bgc]

I just realized the question I asked was ridiculously vague--what I was trying to figure out was if there was a big divide (maturity wise, socially, whatever) between the people who have taken time off and the people that are straight out of undergrad--but I think this answers it!

Well played

The age thing is not much of an issue. I think people with children can feel isolated because so much of the social activity involves alcohol. Having small children is inherently isolating in a situation where few of your peers share that status. It's not a question of age.

I recently spoke with a friend from high school who graduated from UVA. He said it was 75% straight-through. That would be rough. The distribution of ages is pretty even here up to about 28. I might be way off, but I would guess the largest cluster is at 25-26. Our class has a low high-end compared to those ahead of us, but I think you'll find people who want to socialize in whatever way interests you.

I don't really notice a difference in maturity on the part of those who went straight through. They're certainly no less mature than tinman and I (well, maybe a few). I wouldn't have wanted that schedule for myself, but some people are in a big hurry to go to law school.

On the enviro front, I have both Esty and Kysar right now and am enjoying both classes tremendously. There's also the Community Economic Development clinic that does work with sustainable agriculture. It's a transactional practice, so it could be a nice contrast.

I live alone and am happy about it. I also live right next to school, which is fantastic. As tinman said, roommates coordinate on facebook and at the ASW. If you're coming for the ASW, it would be worth getting in touch with a landlord before hand so that you can look at a bunch of places. It's easy to see 5-10 apartments in short order and sign a lease immediately.

[tinman]

I don't really notice a difference in maturity on the part of those who went straight through. They're certainly no less mature than tinman and I (well, maybe a few). I wouldn't have wanted that schedule for myself, but some people are in a big hurry to go to law school.

Agreed, and some of the younger students are arguably more mature than bcg and I

I think the average age (or at least the median) is closer to 24. I think I looked up the stats once, though it was probably for the 2010 or 2011 class. I think roughly a quarter of the class is straight though (making 22 the mode), though I could be wrong.

The people here are great. I agree with bcg that socially (as well as academically) you can find what you are looking for here. I think our pass/pass first semester just makes everyone nicer and makes the class as a whole and the small groups in particular gel.

[rabbit9198]

I think the average age (or at least the median) is closer to 24. I think I looked up the stats once, though it was probably for the 2010 or 2011 class. I think roughly a quarter of the class is straight though (making 22 the mode), though I could be wrong.

Good remembering. "25% of the Class of 2012 joined us immediately after finishing their undergraduate studies, 38% have been out of college for one or two years, and the remaining 37% have three or more years of post-college experience. " Source: http://blogs.law.yale.edu/blogs/admissi ... w-new.aspx

[Pausanias]

Can any present students comment on the bluebook and journal competition, and perhaps offer any studying tips for the citation manual?

[rabbit9198]

Can any present students comment on the bluebook and journal competition, and perhaps offer any studying tips for the citation manual?

Joining YLJ (the Yale Law Journal) is a two-step competitive application process: 1. the bluebook test, in which you're tested on your mastery of a complicated set of rules for how to format legal citations, as recorded in "the bluebook," and (if you've passed the bluebook test) 2. a writing component, in which you generally are asked to read two pieces of legal scholarship and comment on which you'd choose to publish and why.

The bluebook test happens in late April, and the writing component is basically after finals are finished.

Generally, YLJ looks to bring on board about 60 new "first year editors" each year. A couple are transfer students or 2Ls, but most are finishing their 1L year at the time they apply.

I am not going to offer any "studying tips." Nobody who is not yet in law school should concern themselves - at all - with learning the arcane and arbitrary requirements of the bluebook. You'll have plenty of time to do that once you're in law school.

[Renaixença]

Can any present students comment on the bluebook and journal competition, and perhaps offer any studying tips for the citation manual?

Joining YLJ (the Yale Law Journal) is a two-step competitive application process: 1. the bluebook test, in which you're tested on your mastery of a complicated set of rules for how to format legal citations, as recorded in "the bluebook," and (if you've passed the bluebook test) 2. a writing component, in which you generally are asked to read two pieces of legal scholarship and comment on which you'd choose to publish and why.

The bluebook test happens in late April, and the writing component is basically after finals are finished.

Generally, YLJ looks to bring on board about 60 new "first year editors" each year. A couple are transfer students or 2Ls, but most are finishing their 1L year at the time they apply.

I am not going to offer any "studying tips." Nobody who is not yet in law school should concern themselves - at all - with learning the arcane and arbitrary requirements of the bluebook. You'll have plenty of time to do that once you're in law school.

I would like some of your tips. I'm in law school. Please give me your bluebook-ing tips.

[kalessebo]

I would like some of your tips. I'm in law school. Please give me your bluebook-ing tips.

Come on guys, you can't let this kill the thread. Does anybody have any lingering concerns? I'd (and I'm sure the other students would also) be happy to answer things via PM if you don't feel like conversing publicly.

And to add (nerdily) to the answer to an earlier question, if you were to estimate the effect of a bunch of variables on socializing here, the explanatory power of age/years out of undergrad would be virtually zero. Most people here are awesome and very open to socializing with all comers.

[lawyering]

posting here to tag this thread, now that i have a chance to be a member of YLS 2013!!

[Pausanias]

I would like some of your tips. I'm in law school. Please give me your bluebook-ing tips.

Come on guys, you can't let this kill the thread. Does anybody have any lingering concerns? I'd (and I'm sure the other students would also) be happy to answer things via PM if you don't feel like conversing publicly.

And to add (nerdily) to the answer to an earlier question, if you were to estimate the effect of a bunch of variables on socializing here, the explanatory power of age/years out of undergrad would be virtually zero. Most people here are awesome and very open to socializing with all comers.

I have a question about culturing a mentor relationship with professors. Do y'all have any advice for fostering a research-based connection with a professor? How does one get an RA-ship? Are they during the summers, or during the year? How important is political affinity with the professors for such a relationship? Are competing political opinions an obstacle to such a mentorship?

[rabbit9198]

I have a question about culturing a mentor relationship with professors. Do y'all have any advice for fostering a research-based connection with a professor? How does one get an RA-ship? Are they during the summers, or during the year? How important is political affinity with the professors for such a relationship? Are competing political opinions an obstacle to such a mentorship?

This is a really good set of questions. First off, it's generally *really* easy to become an RA, and there are lots of ways to do it: MANY professors actually just post notices on the walls of the Law School saying, "I'm starting a project on XYZ; if you want to work with me, send me an email" - this is how I got my RA job, and it's worked out extremely well for me; there is also a central database (through the Career Development Office in online format, and on a single part of a physical wall, in paper form) where most "official" RA openings are listed; people also commonly establish RA relationships by approaching a professor they have for class (or that professor will approach them); others just drop into a professor's office hours to talk about work they find interesting and inquire as to whether the professor is looking for help.

We also are required to write two major papers during our time here; each must be supervised by a professor. Sometimes, those relationships spur RA relationships, too, as professors learn the quality of your work and may even want to work together to expand upon ideas from your papers.

Some RA jobs are short-term projects, others are ongoing, so they could be either during the summer or during the academic year. Some people spend their 1L summer in part or entirely working as an RA. You can generally either get academic credit or get paid ($13.50/hour) for your work, depending on your arrangement with the professor.

Most RAs that I know of aren't working on politically-sensitive projects, so it probably doesn't matter whether you share a political affinity with a professor. But I suppose there are situations where it could be helpful. I haven't heard of anyone finding that to be an "obstacle," per se...probably due in large part to self-selection.

In general, you want to be an engaged student to build these kind of relationships that can lead to strong mentoring relationships. That's true at probably any school. But I'd wager that at YLS (or any small, research-intensive school), the opportunities to build those relationships are relatively easy to cultivate even outside of a typical classroom relationship (for example, I did not take a class with the professor I RA for until after I started working with him).

[rabbit9198]

How did you obtain admission? You blow Rangappa or something?

Though I have great admiration for Asha, I assure you that no sexual favors were given to procure my admission. I'm sure she'd love to hear of your theory, though...

[lawyering]

Question for current YLSers: Do you know of any LGBT-identified faculty at Yale right now? From what I've seen so far, SLS has a number of women, and HLS only men. I haven't found anything for YLS yet, and as LGBT advocacy is one of my many interests, this may sway my decision.

[Kretzy]

How did you obtain admission? You blow Rangappa or something?

Though I have great admiration for Asha, I assure you that no sexual favors were given to procure my admission. I'm sure she'd love to hear of your theory, though...

ITT: Yale students even respond to trolls in a wonderfully elegant way.

[Kretzy]

Question for current YLSers: Do you know of any LGBT-identified faculty at Yale right now? From what I've seen so far, SLS has a number of women, and HLS only men. I haven't found anything for YLS yet, and as LGBT advocacy is one of my many interests, this may sway my decision.

William Eskridge, who wrote the textbook "Gay Law," is tenured.

[lawyering]

Question for current YLSers: Do you know of any LGBT-identified faculty at Yale right now? From what I've seen so far, SLS has a number of women, and HLS only men. I haven't found anything for YLS yet, and as LGBT advocacy is one of my many interests, this may sway my decision.

William Eskridge, who wrote the textbook "Gay Law," is tenured.

Thanks Kretzy!

[Pausanias]

I have some questions regarding 1L summers. First, how has it been finding Big Law summer employment ITE for the current students? Second, what are the most prestigious ways of spending the 1L summer?

[BioEBear2010]

I have some questions regarding 1L summers. First, how has it been finding Big Law summer employment ITE for the current students? Second, what are the most prestigious ways of spending the 1L summer?

Piggybacking onto Pausanias' question: How many firms from California (LA or SF) came to OCI this year? Do students typically have a difficult time finding employment in California (either BigLaw, clerkships [e.g. 9th Circuit], or PI)?

[naruhodo]

Now that folks are submitting financial aid materials, does anyone have any tips about negotiating aid with YLS?

I've searched the boards, but almost all of the relevant threads exclude HYS, since they don't give out merit aid. I have heard here and there, though, that YLS will adjust financial aid offers for prospective students with Hamiltons, Darrows, etc.

[tinman]

Now that folks are submitting financial aid materials, does anyone have any tips about negotiating aid with YLS?

I've searched the boards, but almost all of the relevant threads exclude HYS, since they don't give out merit aid. I have heard here and there, though, that YLS will adjust financial aid offers for prospective students with Hamiltons, Darrows, etc.

The biggest factor in negotiating aid with Yale will be how much aid you get from H and S, I think. I think all three schools will usually match each other. They definitely will not match a Hamilton or Darrow, and they will not officially take it into account, but I think that it is something they may consider unofficially (financial aid officers are human, of course).

The best things to do: 1) make a compelling argument (and present evidence, which can include aid awards from H and S) that you actually have have NEED, 2) make a compelling case that you would actually consider someplace besides Yale (financial aid awards could work here too; I also think this is where the Hamilton comes into place: if you only have a comparable financial aid award from another top school, then they may not believe that you will go there (after all, why would you choose anywhere but Yale ), but free law school at Columbia vs. ticket price at Yale, it's not crazy that someone would take the money, and people of need may be more likely to take it).

Again, the official policy is probably that they only consider 1), so the best thing to do is to demonstrate your need. Caveat: A rich father who is no longer willing to support you during law school does not make you needy for these purposes; as far as I can tell, need-based aid in law school is mostly a proxy for socioeconomic status.