Yale Class of 2013 Forum

[Pausanias]

I've got a question for all us admits: what are you doing until law school begins? As for me, I'm wrapping up my PhD diss on Ancient Greco-Roman law.

[Renaixença]

I've got a question for all us admits: what are you doing until law school begins? As for me, I'm wrapping up my PhD diss on Ancient Greco-Roman law.

Welcome, Dr. Superfluous!

[Pausanias]

That's Herr Professor Doktor Doktor überflüssig to you.

[Pausanias]

Boy, the Facebook membership is jumpin! It's neat seeing where all the new admits are from. Mostly very prestigious (much more than I).

[Ranita]

I've got a question for all us admits: what are you doing until law school begins? As for me, I'm wrapping up my PhD diss on Ancient Greco-Roman law.

As a deferred student, I had a good 18 months to play with before hunkering down in New Haven for a while. I've used my time to: 1. Wrap up another Masters degree in the Social Sciences, 2. Get some more experience fixing the grammar of undergrads who should have known better, and 3. Work on my French and Spanish so that they can atrophy back to nothing while in Connecticut.

In sum, not nearly as exciting or productive as interning for Obama or finishing a PhD, but it beats pushing a large rock uphill. One thing is for sure -- I'm excited about starting at Yale this summer.

[Pausanias]

Un autre maîtres? Tres impressionnant. En francais et espagnol, n'est-ce pas? (My French is quite élémentaire).

[Ranita]

Un autre maîtres? Tres impressionnant. En francais et espagnol, n'est-ce pas? (My French is quite élémentaire).

eh bon, meme trois ou quatre Masters ne font pas un doctorat, c'est sur, mais de toute facon j'ai beaucoup appris donc ca a valu la peine. But answering your question, my grad degrees are all in PoliSci stuff. The French is a reminant from my undergrad days (ca fait une decennie maintenant...comme j'suis vieux) and the Spanish came from living/working in Latin America. Both have contributed greatly to my ability to no longer spell/speak English correctly and to find the best taco vans.

[Pausanias]

Well, just remember that there is a "D" in "J.D.", thus you all will be doctors. As for taco trucks, as a California native I earnestly hope for their presence in New Haven. I've found that if there is "lingua" on the menu, and you can see a tub of "lardo" in the back, you know it's a good taco truck.

[catwoman]

...

[Pausanias]

As well as the cupcake truck, we'll have to be on the lookout for meals on wheels. I've found that every place I've lived has had a certain culinary aspect that other cities, including NYC, just can't touch. For San Francisco it's the burritos. For NYC it's lots of stuff, and for Baltimore/DC it's Ethiopian and Jamaican food. I keep hearing about New Haven's pizza, that's seems to be its most famous.

What is the pinnacle of gustatory delight where all y'all are living at the moment?

[catwoman]

...

[Pausanias]

What a game. As they say, defense wins championships. Who else was almost in tears watching Drew Brees with his one-year-old son in the headphones?

[gobucks8284]

I'll throw my hat into the ring here. What am I doing? Very little. Working as much as possible and trying to save up money before this fall.

[Pausanias]

There's a really great new entry in the Student Perspectives blog from a 1L ('12) on Yale's assistance with jobs. This is especially helpful, as that's the first class that had full cognizance of the downturn and job prospects. The question I have is, to what extent are these posts forced positive spin? http://www.law.yale.edu/admissions/11235.htm

One concern widely shared by law students these days is securing employment after graduation. The legal field seems a bit down recently, with lawyers being laid off and starting salaries declining. Luckily, not only does the name “Yale Law” often get you past the hiring partners and into an interview (talk about a great network of alumni), the resources at the Law School also give you great preparation before you even shake your first hand.

As a 1L, I was not allowed to even inquire about jobs until after November 1, due to standards agreed upon by all law schools. However, as soon as that date passed the Career Development Office (CDO) organized a seemingly limitless schedule of lunchtime seminars and panels on how to write a job application, interviewing tips, and potential employment opportunities. There was also a student job fair that allowed 1Ls like me to connect with 2Ls and 3Ls who had done the kinds of jobs over the summer that we were interested in exploring. I found these sessions to be very helpful as I scoured the legal markets for the firm, agency, or organization that fit me best and created the best possible cover letter and resume to send to them for the next summer.

Additionally, the CDO staff is available for one-on-one advising sessions to give direct and personal feedback on cover letters, resumes, applications, you name it. My advisor was helpful and direct, even though I know I probably caused her computer to explode with the amount of emails I sent her asking about the tiniest and most likely inconsequential details. Nevertheless, she replied promptly and her counsel was a huge part of my confidence and preparedness as I attended my first summer job interviews.

The CDO also held mock interviews in early December to give us the chance to hone our schmoozing skills. I interviewed with a local federal Magistrate Judge who gave me great advice. I also got a burned DVD of the mock interview, so I could critique (or laugh at) myself later.

After the excellent preparation I received from the CDO, I landed a job at a U.S. Attorney’s Office for the summer. The Yale Law CDO directed me to the job and gave me the tools I needed to successfully get the offer. What could be better career development than that?

[rabbit9198]

The question I have is, to what extent are these posts forced positive spin?

Of course, you're free not to believe me, but the truth is that posters are told to be honest and to show the real parts of YLS that you might not get outside of a firsthand student account. Other than a bit of grammatical editing here and there (we're all human!), content isn't censored or dictated. All that said, the students who volunteer to write blog posts (like the students who volunteer to give college tours) tend to really love their school, so it's inevitable that you'll get some overwhelmingly positive endorsements.

If you're worried about whether all students are having the same kind of experiences as those who post to the blog, I encourage you to come visit and talk to random current students sitting in the lounge or the dining hall or walking the hallways. People are generally very happy to talk to you, and I think I speak for most of us when I say that we're quick to acknowledge the strengths *and* weaknesses of YLS, and we understand that just because we love it here doesn't mean it's necessarily the best place for any other individual making tough enrollment decisions.

[dueprocess14]

The question I have is, to what extent are these posts forced positive spin?

Of course, you're free not to believe me, but the truth is that posters are told to be honest and to show the real parts of YLS that you might not get outside of a firsthand student account. Other than a bit of grammatical editing here and there (we're all human!), content isn't censored or dictated. All that said, the students who volunteer to write blog posts (like the students who volunteer to give college tours) tend to really love their school, so it's inevitable that you'll get some overwhelmingly positive endorsements.

If you're worried about whether all students are having the same kind of experiences as those who post to the blog, I encourage you to come visit and talk to random current students sitting in the lounge or the dining hall or walking the hallways. People are generally very happy to talk to you, and I think I speak for most of us when I say that we're quick to acknowledge the strengths *and* weaknesses of YLS, and we understand that just because we love it here doesn't mean it's necessarily the best place for any other individual making tough enrollment decisions.

I would +1 (and then some) all of this. When I was visiting/deciding, everyone was very helpful and candid with their thoughts, and at times people were up front about the fact that YLS is NOT the ideal school for XYZ interests. In fact, I would say YLS was the only place where I felt like I got candid advice from students, the luxury of not feeling the need to sell their school as hard. This was noticeably different from peer schools that would happily bash each other and boast about why their school was clearly the best.

That said, I got Dean Koh'd (or should I say KO'd?) pretty hard - he was not buying any reason why anyone would ever want to go anywhere else. This, of course, won't be a problem for this year's admits.

[Pausanias]

Zabagabe, did you say in an earlier post that you're finishing a PhD? What's your topic?

[BioEBear2010]

I just finished touring Yale and New Haven yesterday, and boy was I impressed. Yale literally opened all of its doors to me, and I got to meet with a number of students, sit in on a class, meet with the professor of said class, meet with Dean Post, speak with the Admissions/Financial Aid/Career Development Offices, and attend a pretty top secret talk. Everyone was very (almost uncannily) friendly, and gave me a lot of insight into the school, life in New Haven, and why they chose Yale.

I also have to +1 Rabbit's and Zabagabe's posts. The students and faculty were candid about their thoughts, and while they tried to put Yale in the best light, they also acknowledged its weaknesses. They suggested that I visit every school that I am interested in, and not make a final decision until I have thoroughly weighed the pros and cons of each school.

That being said, Yale was simply amazing. I highly recommend that all admits either attend admitted student days or find a chance to visit on their own (or both, like I will probably be doing!)

[Pausanias]

What are some candid negatives? One that I have heard is the temporary lack of a tax prof, but I'm sure Post will remedy that soon.

[BioEBear2010]

What are some candid negatives? One that I have heard is the temporary lack of a tax prof, but I'm sure Post will remedy that soon.

Some negatives are the lack of faculty in certain areas, including (as you mentioned) tax law, IP law, and various facets of corporate law. Another negative is a lack of a dedicated program to teach legal writing and research to 1Ls -- most other law schools have programs to teach 1st semester students these abilities, but Yale does not (instead they learn in in their small section class and through the two required papers).

Also, the East Coast and (in particular) New Haven are not for everyone. Personally, though, I found the area quite nice -- I don't know why so many people say New Haven is a slum.

[Hoopster]

The question I have is, to what extent are these posts forced positive spin?

Actually, I doubt it was forced. It simply is that positive as a general rule at YLS. I myself had some great summer job offers so all the things we went through that the 1L described in his/her blog (yes, I know who it was ) were definitely a big help.

We know we're blessed to be at YLS and our futures are bright. So we're free to be honest and candid on its strengths and weaknesses, knowing most doors are still open to us even before we graduate regardless.

[Pausanias]

The question I have is, to what extent are these posts forced positive spin?

Actually, I doubt it was forced. It simply is that positive as a general rule at YLS. I myself had some great summer job offers so all the things we went through that the 1L described in his/her blog (yes, I know who it was ) were definitely a big help.

We know we're blessed to be at YLS and our futures are bright. So we're free to be honest and candid on its strengths and weaknesses, knowing most doors are still open to us even before we graduate regardless.

Boy, it's almost unbelievable that we made it in to such a school. I personally have no idea what I want to do, (though I assume I am not in the minority) but it's great to have such opportunities. I feel like I have a vague interest in appellate litigation, but I have this feeling that every budding law student feels that way. Is this true? I started a post in the legal employment asking about appellate litigation, especially at DC boutique firms, but I got no response. Do any current students have the skinny on appellate litigation as a career?

How about other admits, do y'all know what you want to do with this J.D.?

[BioEBear2010]

How about other admits, do y'all know what you want to do with this J.D.?

Honestly, not really. I'm simply interested in too many parts of the law. I could see myself working as a bankruptcy or IP attorney. I would also love to clerk and possibly go the judge route. Hopefully I get a better idea after my 1L year.

[kalessebo]

What are some candid negatives? One that I have heard is the temporary lack of a tax prof, but I'm sure Post will remedy that soon.

Some negatives are the lack of faculty in certain areas, including (as you mentioned) tax law, IP law, and various facets of corporate law. Another negative is a lack of a dedicated program to teach legal writing and research to 1Ls -- most other law schools have programs to teach 1st semester students these abilities, but Yale does not (instead they learn in in their small section class and through the two required papers).

Also, the East Coast and (in particular) New Haven are not for everyone. Personally, though, I found the area quite nice -- I don't know why so many people say New Haven is a slum.

A few thoughts:

On lack of profs dedicated to tax, IP, etc., it's definitely a negative, but I'd argue not a huge one unless you want to do really in depth research in the subject. And even then, it's not a dealbreaker. YLS does a fantastic job of having the best professors fill in the subjects in which we're missing faculty. So for example, this semester, Ian Ayres is teaching AP. He's written on the subject a bit from the law and econ point of view, but he's definitely not an IP professor - he's in a sense learning the material along with us. That being said, he is an amazing teacher and a very bright person, so I don't think we're worse off having him than a pretty good prof who specializes in IP. Similarly (though I'm not in this one so I can't speak from experience), Dan Markovits is teaching tax this semester. He is widely regarded as the smartest person on the faculty, and from what I hear, he's a great teacher too (if you don't mind feeling a bit inferior, you know, intellectually). He's not a tax guy, but I doubt anyone in the class would say that matters. Last example: Jed Rubenfeld, a top-notch con law scholar, often teaches Criminal Law. He's a bit of a ham, but gets great reviews, so I don't think the fact that he is not a scholar of Criminal Law affects things much. And on the research and writing point, it would obviously be nice to have a dedicated IP person to write with, for example, but Ayres would be great, and there are always visiting faculty who can supervise and help with research (such as a partner from Paul Hastings, a firm in New York, who is teaching an IP seminar this semester). And Dean Post is definitely trying to fill these gaps, so I wouldn't worry that it's going to be a long term thing, though the recession is certainly making it harder for everyone to pick up lateral hires.

On the lack of a real writing program: Definitely a negative, but mitigated by the fact that (1) you can take a real legal writing class second semester as an elective, when every other law student in the country is being forced to take more required classes. It's up to you if you think that's important and (2) you can do clinics starting in your second semester (again, I think we're the only law school in the country to allow that), and clinics are legal writing training by fire. I just wrote part of a brief for the New York Appellate Court, and I'm infinitely better at legal writing now than I was two weeks ago because of the practice and also because my supervising attorney is awesome.

New Haven: It gets a bad rap. I know it's not Cambridge or New York, but I honestly don't get the animus. It's a nice little college town if you stay north of Crown and west of State. It's got Zagat rated (and also cheap but good) food, great architecture around the school, a town green, and a J.Crew. What more could you want? Check earlier in this thread (or maybe it's the YLS 1Ls taking questions thread) for a link from Rabbit on the virtues of New Haven.

Last thing, from personal experience: BioEBear is awesome. You should all come to YLS and hang out with him.

[Pausanias]

Thanks Kalessebo, that was a really great post. I was wondering about the Supreme Court Clinic. I know it's a competitive clinic (are they all competitive?); can you join it your second semester? Also, you mentioned the writing practice benefits from clinics; are they as pronounced in the Supreme Court Clinic, or do the students do less writing there?