Rutgers-Camden Class of 2013 Forum

[grbueno]

Joined!

Also, I visited the Victor apartments yesterday and am sold on them. It's a bit pricey no doubt, but you can't beat the location (save for the dorms, and those are kind of ehhh honestly).

If you took any pictures, can you post some? I would like to see some non-professional photos of the place that isn't on their website.

Nah I didn't bother to bring a camera.

The professional pictures aren't that far off from the real thing though. The show room was a little bit more fancy (track lights and so forth) than the other rooms, but that's about it. All the kitchens are the same, most of the rooms and living rooms have huge windows and high ceilings, etc.

[kissy]

I'm in the FB group . BTW, I also mailed my deposit today. Just have to write to Newark to get my deposit back there. Will probably do it by the end of the month.

congratulations!

[keg411]

I'm in the FB group . BTW, I also mailed my deposit today. Just have to write to Newark to get my deposit back there. Will probably do it by the end of the month.

congratulations!

Thanks . Yay for numbers twins!

[kissy]

#twins4life


can you guess who i am

[GoodToBeTheKing]

#twins4life


can you guess who i am

hm... do the gloves fit?

[keg411]

I figured it out .

I'm probably easy to figure out -- I'm the only girl so far haha. Someone should post the FB group on the RU-C housing board so that more people sign up besides TLS-ers.

[Joe Biden]

???

This thread has lost its mind today...first Biden wrote a novel (which is much appreciated btw!), and then some guy with an obvious agenda came in, spewing gloom & doom to the tune of NWA's "Straight Outta Compton"; I think the chip on the guys shoulder can be seen from space. And then, there are massive edits all over the place - why?

I miss the days when everyone was actually excited to go to Rutgers (ahemm...three days ago)...damn you US News...

The legal market is in the toilet, there is no doubt about it. However, people are still getting jobs. The world has not come to an end. The 150k/year starting jobs are still there, but they are very hard to get. If your goal was to make 150k/year straight out of law school it is still possible, but you better be in the top 5-10% of the class at RU-Camden. For everyone else, there are still jobs. Firms are still hiring. It isn't that there are no jobs, it is that people are not making what they had hoped for. You may have to tough it out in a 50-60k/year job for a few years, but it is not the end of the world. Just be grateful you have the chance to make that, because the entire economy tanked and people without advanced degrees are unemployed.

Lol I planned on making that (or below) the first few years anyways...because you cant buy the experience a clerkship or position as a public defender affords. I'm glad there is a reasonable voice on this website to counter-balance the BS some guy with too much time on his hands spews.

The biggest thing people have had to come to grips with is that they are not going to make 170k their first year out. There are still plenty of jobs that pay a lot of money for lawyers with experience, i.e. BigLaw, General Counsel, etc. If that is what someone aspires too, there are plenty of Rutgers-Camden alumni who have made a lot of money practicing law. If someone's goal is BigLaw, work your ass off, graduate in the top 10% of the class and there are still BigLaw associate positions available for RU-Camden grads. I know several people taking BigLaw positions. BTW - These people really do make $2500/week for 10 weeks over the summer, as summer associates. Those numbers are real, and those positions really do exist.

To be in the top 10% of the class you have to work your ass off. If you do that, there will be BigLaw positions available and that 160k/year dream job will be available. If you are in the top half of your RU-Camden class, you will be able to transfer to a top 50 school if you choose. However, a lot of people are so comfortable by that point they choose not to. I do know a lot of people who did successfully transfer. It is easier to do well at RU-Camden than other schools, because the competition is not cut throat.

Here is my take on BigLaw. If you work your ass off to be in the top 10%, those jobs will be there. You are going to end up working that hard once you take a BigLaw job, so you may as well get used to it now. If you get to law school and decide working 60 hours/week to get those kind of grades is not for you, then you have probably learned a valuable lesson. Just because you choose not to go the BigLaw route, you are not a failure. There are plenty of people who have a passion for the law, but would prefer to work 40-50 hrs/week, have a comfortable life and a comfortable job. If you take a clerk position for a year, you learn a LOT and you are on your way to a stable, 70-80k/year position in house somewhere, where you don't have you kill yourself with insane hours, you make a comfortable living and enjoy what you do.

There are tons of options available. If you attend RU-Camden you will be able to do anything from BigLaw to clerking for a Supreme Court Justice. Law school is what you make of it. Not everyone wants to go the BigLaw route and there is nothing wrong with that. If you graduate from RU-Camden in good standing you will find a decent job. It may take a lot of work to get the job, i.e. tons of applications sent out, a lot of interviews, etc. but people are finding decent jobs. You may not get rich right out of law school, but there are jobs available where you can make a decent living, pay off your loans and fulfill your dreams of practicing law.

I could have gone to several T50 law schools, however, they would have been significantly more money. I am very happy with the decision I made, and I do not regret it one bit. I also had 100% grants offered to T3s. I mean, everything was covered, from tuition, to fees to books. These grants were not scholarships with any kind of strings, they were grants. I do not regret turning those offers down. RU-Camden has a major presence in the New Jersey legal market. A lot of our competitors, like Temple, Villanova, etc. are fighting over Philly jobs, which our alumni get too, but they aren't even looking at the Jersey markets, which we have a major presence in.

The entire economy sucks right now. Getting a law degree is not going to make you less employable than you already are. Working for 60k/year in the public defenders office, taking a clerkship, etc. are not bad things. They beat delivering pizzas because you undergraduate degree is worthless in this economy. A law degree is not a bad investment right now. It would be nice if the legal market were better, but the entire economy sucks right now. By getting a law degree right now, you are buying yourself three more years before entering the job market. Hopefully, in that three years, things get a little bit better, but even if they don't, getting a law degree will not hurt you. I advise anyone looking at Philly law schools to consider RU-Camden, because we have a unique presence in the Jersey markets, plus we are cheaper than some of our private school competitors. These are important things to keep in mind when choosing a law school.

The single most important piece of advice I would give anyone right now is to watch the debt. If you have instate, or a scholarship at RU-Camden, chances are you are able to get out of law school with a lot less debt than if you went elsewhere. If practicing law is your dream, don't get scared off by the people telling you that DOC Review is in your future.

[Joe Biden]

Reason for edits: Blog guy was baiting me into posting some personal information about my family legal stuff and I didn't feel like getting into an argument.

BTW, I'm about 80% on Camden at this point (sorry ISA! I still <3 everyone in the RU-N thread). I feel like getting out of North Jersey for a while will be good for me and if I really want to go back there, I have connections and going to Camden isn't going to hurt me. Joe Biden and mjs really helped out the past couple of days by providing some QoL questions that I had too .

Does Camden provide any info to help with the roommate search once you send the deposit?

If you need help with a roommate search send me a PM. I will do my best to put you in contact with people who can help you. I know a lot of law students looking for roommates, so I might be able to direct you toward someone who is looking for the same thing you are.

[Joe Biden]

Doing a little soul searching this afternoon guys...would like some input.

I have always been a huge Notre Dame fan; I almost played football there, and had my heart set on attending law school there from soph. year of undergrad onward. I got WL there early (December), and committed myself to trying to gain admission by any means possible. But since that time, Rutgers has been nothing but awesome towards me - a great scholarship, and in-state tuition despite my low LSAT. Today, I reassessed my situation. If ND takes me off the WL, would I actually attend? It would be almost 40k a year, not including fees + living costs. Rutgers, on the other hand, would only cost 10-12k max. In any other economy and employment situation, I would accept an offer from ND without hesitation. But with the debt that I would accrue, it gives me reason to pause with Rutgers offer on the table. Plus, the East Coast seems to be the "place to be" for the jobs these days (as compared to Chicago). What would you do?

I realize this is Rutgers board, but I want to be absolutely sure I'm making the right decision. I think I'm leaning towards Rutgers...but then again, ND has not even offered me anything yet. I guess I just want to be doubly sure that I'm making the right move.

I am not going to lie to you, that would be a very difficult position for me. Notre Dame as an incredible alumni, they have awesome job placement, they are nationwide reach and name recognition.

You need to look at what your future goals are. What do you want out of your legal career? Are you going to do BigLaw, where you stand a chance of repaying those loans? RU-Camden has awesome public interest placement. There is an annual APIL trip, which is for students interested in public interest. You basically get to travel to a place like New Orleans, Austin, etc. for a week, it is all paid for through donations, and you get to work with some kind of public interest group in that area. You are able to get involved in public interest work locally, etc. So, if you are interested in clerking, public interest, etc. maybe you are better off at RU-Camden. If you are still up in the air, I would advise keeping your debt as low as possible. However, if you are interested in corporate law, BigLaw, etc. maybe Notre Dame is the right choice.

With the economy how it is, and so much uncertainty in the future, I would advise anyone to be very, very careful with debt. Only paying 10-12k/year for tuition, from a solid school, is really a blessing. Do not overlook how difficult it will be to pay back 40k/year in loans. You are talking about student loan payments in the range of 1-3k/month. If you have parents who are willing to pay the bill, then I would probably go to Notre Dame. If you are paying it yourself, you are talking about a loan payment that is equal to a house payment in a beautiful home. This is a really tough decision, and only you are going to be able to make this decision.

Here is another thing to think about. Notre Dame is a Catholic school, and unlike Georgetown, Notre Dame really cares about its Catholic identity. If you are going to have problems with a conservative ideology, take that into consideration. I would say that RU-Camden leans to the left (faculty and students), but I have not seen anyone degraded, demeaned, etc. because of their political views. Democrat law student groups are very active, as are conservative groups. There are gay/lesbian groups that are very active, and there are bible study groups for law students. RU-Camden is very open for anyone, regardless of your political viewpoint. No one is hurt because of their political ideology. That is not true at all law schools.

[Joe Biden]

Does anyone know if you can bring a bike on the PATCO?

I have seen people with bikes on the Patco. However, the law school is literally, right next to the Patco. It like 25 yards from the Patco.

[Joe Biden]

Hey look, even your dean admits law school ain't such a hot idea:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =121274655

Hilarious! 4 years of college, 3 years of law school, the bar'zam hazing ritual- all for the chance to compete with one another to work for FREE! Note that only 60 of the 100 volunteers even got hired! One poor schmuck is driving 2+ hours each way to work for nothing and live with your parents as an "adult child." Welcome to reality, kids. The demand for non Top 14/biglaw entry level lawyers is essentially zero, and gets exponentially worse each year.

Be aware that this hiring freeze is also in effect for most NJ county legal aid services and DA offices. This is why small firms are now paying $12 an hour. They can essentially offer state minimum wage and still get 100+ resumes. That's how truly glutted the legal market is.

You're making a mistake that you'll likely regret for a lifetime. For most, a law degree is utterly and totally worthless and the poorest "investment" one could possibly make.

A law degree is not going to make someone less employable, which is essentially what you are saying. Most people in this forum can already get jobs far better than $12/hr. With that being said, a law degree is not going to make them less employable.

[Joe Biden]

Hey look, even your dean admits law school ain't such a hot idea:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =121274655

Hilarious! 4 years of college, 3 years of law school, the bar'zam hazing ritual- all for the chance to compete with one another to work for FREE! Note that only 60 of the 100 volunteers even got hired! One poor schmuck is driving 2+ hours each way to work for nothing and live with your parents as an "adult child." Welcome to reality, kids. The demand for non Top 14/biglaw entry level lawyers is essentially zero, and gets exponentially worse each year.

Be aware that this hiring freeze is also in effect for most NJ county legal aid services and DA offices. This is why small firms are now paying $12 an hour. They can essentially offer state minimum wage and still get 100+ resumes. That's how truly glutted the legal market is.

You're making a mistake that you'll likely regret for a lifetime. For most, a law degree is utterly and totally worthless and the poorest "investment" one could possibly make.

Ya...that's what a recession does to an economy...it shrinks. But the cool thing about them is that they dont last forever. Now, on to the next point of contention you dig up with your seemingly endless amount of free time...

But seriously, your preaching is getting old. We all get your point, but it doesnt mean anyone is going to agree with it. Knowing many attorneys and having a few in the family, I know that you are only speaking, at most, half of the story.

I think there is some benefit in people like this. It is a decent reality check. Honestly, it is good for people to know that there is a recession, that the legal market is not great and that there is not a huge pot of gold at the other side of the rainbow. With that being said, there are law jobs out there. There are jobs for attorneys. The biggest reality check is that people are not going to get hired making the kind of money they may have expected a few years ago.

For example, Drinker Biddle cut their starting salary for new associates from 160k to 100k:

http://www.law.com/jsp/law/careercenter ... 2431845167

When Drinker Biddle cuts, so do other firms. That means a firm that might have started at 100k will now offer 80k. The biggest reality check for people right now is that they will not be making what they thought they would. However, no one is, it doesn't matter what industry they are in. Everyone is hurting from the recession. However, when things turn around, the legal market will too, and the attorneys with a few experience, who have been diligent sticking out the tough times, will do well. Things will not stay bad forever.

[roecyris]

Hey look, even your dean admits law school ain't such a hot idea:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =121274655

Hilarious! 4 years of college, 3 years of law school, the bar'zam hazing ritual- all for the chance to compete with one another to work for FREE! Note that only 60 of the 100 volunteers even got hired! One poor schmuck is driving 2+ hours each way to work for nothing and live with your parents as an "adult child." Welcome to reality, kids. The demand for non Top 14/biglaw entry level lawyers is essentially zero, and gets exponentially worse each year.

Be aware that this hiring freeze is also in effect for most NJ county legal aid services and DA offices. This is why small firms are now paying $12 an hour. They can essentially offer state minimum wage and still get 100+ resumes. That's how truly glutted the legal market is.

You're making a mistake that you'll likely regret for a lifetime. For most, a law degree is utterly and totally worthless and the poorest "investment" one could possibly make.

Ya...that's what a recession does to an economy...it shrinks. But the cool thing about them is that they dont last forever. Now, on to the next point of contention you dig up with your seemingly endless amount of free time...

But seriously, your preaching is getting old. We all get your point, but it doesnt mean anyone is going to agree with it. Knowing many attorneys and having a few in the family, I know that you are only speaking, at most, half of the story.

I think there is some benefit in people like this. It is a decent reality check. Honestly, it is good for people to know that there is a recession, that the legal market is not great and that there is not a huge pot of gold at the other side of the rainbow. With that being said, there are law jobs out there. There are jobs for attorneys. The biggest reality check is that people are not going to get hired making the kind of money they may have expected a few years ago.

For example, Drinker Biddle cut their starting salary for new associates from 160k to 100k:

http://www.law.com/jsp/law/careercenter ... 2431845167

When Drinker Biddle cuts, so do other firms. That means a firm that might have started at 100k will now offer 80k. The biggest reality check for people right now is that they will not be making what they thought they would. However, no one is, it doesn't matter what industry they are in. Everyone is hurting from the recession. However, when things turn around, the legal market will too, and the attorneys with a few experience, who have been diligent sticking out the tough times, will do well. Things will not stay bad forever.

My parents combined income isnt even 80k a year ... I'd be o.k. with 80k a year. Will I drive a Benz and live in a house with more rooms than I know what to do with? No. But I'll save, pay off the student loans, live in a modest home, raise my family, enjoy my work (as much as is possible), and be an extremely productive member of society.

And if you twisted my arm ... I'd even take 75k a year ...

[Joe Biden]

Hey, I wanted to link this group to everyone:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2 ... 178&ref=ts

There are a few names I really wish I could connect from the group to their TLS names...it looks like there is a very talented class of incoming law students! You guys will love it!

Anyway, I do know of several people who were able to get roommates from Facebook postings. If anyone needs more leads to find roommates please send me a PM. I will definitely point you in the right direction.

[Joe Biden]

My parents combined income isnt even 80k a year ... I'd be o.k. with 80k a year. Will I drive a Benz and live in a house with more rooms than I know what to do with? No. But I'll save, pay off the student loans, live in a modest home, raise my family, enjoy my work (as much as is possible), and be an extremely productive member of society.

And if you twisted my arm ... I'd even take 75k a year ...

You have realistic goals, and you will be able to achieve those goals. One problem is that many kids graduating from law school are only 25 and have no clue what they want to do with their lives. They are not mature enough to survive in corporate America, they are not prepared for big time responsibility and the only sure for their shortcoming is time. Maturity is something no law school can teach. Sure, you will get a wonderful legal education at RU-Camden, but only you can decide what you want to do with your life. Once you figure that out, you will be on the right track toward a decent career.

RU-Camden is an awesome school. Anyone who has the opportunity to attend this school should be grateful. Does attending law school mean you are guaranteed a great job? No. However, you are still going to be in a better position than you were before law school. Your undergrad degree is not worth less because you went to law school. The economy is tough, but more education is not going to reduce your chances of supporting yourself. It seems so counter-intuitive that someone would suggest a law degree means you are locked into a career of ditch digging.

When I was a little kid my father would drive me past construction workers digging ditches and he would say, "Son, these men are working hard, but if you aspire to more in life, take your education seriously." Things are not as simple as my father made them out to be when I was a child. A degree, in and of itself, does not guarantee me an excellent job. However, an education does not box me into a corner either. Every level of education completed opens more doors for the future.

[Jerzeegirl]

...

[kissy]

Anyone else taking Contracts 1 this summer and currently employed? Wondering when to give notice. . . Or maybe try to keep working part-time. I haven't joined the facebook group because no one knows I'm starting school in June and I didn't think it would be the best way for my boss to find out

just joining the group doensn't give away that you're starting in june! the people who aren't doing jump start begin august 23rd. join away!!!!!!!!!!! there's only 13 members haha, and i feel like most of us are TLSers.

[kissy]

and i'm taking Contracts III

[Jerzeegirl]

...

[kissy]

it shouldn't be too hard to figure out

kissy -> kissler

[Queenjane87]

This thread exploded last week! I love it! I also joined the facebook group.

On another note, does anyone have a copy of getting to maybe they'd be willing to lend me?

Also - thanks joe biden so all your help and insight. I am starting to get really excited to start! Thoughts on 0L prep?

[kissy]

yeah, whoever created this thread must be pretty cool


we need to make sure that us TLSers take over the group

[GoodToBeTheKing]

I am on a plane bound for Philly! Gotta love free wi fi. However my phone is going to die soon so now i'm going to have to throw in the towel and read and sleep again. I am really excited to do some sightseeing today and visit rutgers, victor lofts and some apartments mañana.

[kissy]

have a safe flight, let us know how it goes / what you think, etc. take pictures!!!

[keg411]

Have fun GTBTK .

I'm personally not doing any 0L prep except for reading GTM (my sister has a copy) and then doing a bunch of other "fun" law-related reading (for instance, I read "The Brethern" which is about the Warren Burger court in the '70's) just to get used to reading every day in general. It seems to me that it's pointless to try and read E&E's and it's better to try and learn via the casebook/professor at first instead of just reaching for supplements before I even know anything.