Don't Let MTal get you down... there's HOPE! Forum

[Anonymous User]

According to a personal friend, who works for one of the top V5 firms in the state, whose firm ROUTINELY (yes, even in this economy) hires several new associates from the top 10-15% of the regional USNWR sub-50 school. They added that 95% of that group (top 10-15% of same sub 50 school) get picked up for "big law", with the other 5% going on to clerkships. So, if you, as a TLSer, have dreams of biglaw, and think you can crack the top 10-15% of a sub 50 school, there's HOPE. Consider the critics and possibilities, but don't let the nay-sayers get you down!

[T14]

HOPE

[Helmholtz]

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[T14]

image fail qfp

Busted. It worked at first, but then stopped

[Aberzombie1892]

Well...the top 10% at every law school can have big law if they want it.

(yes there are minor exceptions - but it would be < 10 schools)

Heck some of the top 10% at every school do not want big law - clerking, family firm, public interest, etc.

So...I thought everyone knew this?

It's not worth banking on of course.

It's just how it is.

[Anonymous User]

OP here-Credited, however, on TLS, it often sounds like if you're not top 5% at HYS you should consider a career as a janitor or urine sample tester to be a better investment.

[underachiever]

OP here-Credited, however, on TLS, it often sounds like if you're not top 5% at HYS you should consider a career as a janitor or urine sample tester to be a better investment.

+1

[Aberzombie1892]

OP here-Credited, however, on TLS, it often sounds like if you're not top 5% at HYS you should consider a career as a janitor or urine sample tester to be a better investment.

I honestly have yet to hear an actual HYS person complain - I have heard other people say their friends complain who are there, but not an actual student there.

But that is irrelevant.

There are two main reasons for their failure:

1. Social awkwardness - I believe this plays significant role in why people don't get jobs.

2. Bad luck - most tier 1 schools have lotteries for OCI; students may just have bid on the wrong employers/markets.

2(i). I'm at a loss to understand why people complain so much about OCI anyway. I mean yes ~400 employers come. But no, they don't give two s**** if you finished below the median. The majority of those employers came to interview the same top ~40%. On average, only 29% of any given law school class receives a job through OCI in a good economy. Yes the T14 placed higher than that in Big law, but that doesn't equate to those students acquiring those jobs through OCI.

2(ii). Failure during their 2L summer - this is when your clerk for the firm that you will work for when you finish school. If you fail here, you probably aren't getting big law. By fail I mean either you did a bad job, or they just no offered you. But if you use your second summer there and are no offered, you are pretty screwed when it comes to big law.

[Anonymous User]

OP here- hmm, well I meant the "5% HYS" to compare with doing well at a much lesser ranked school, not as compared to other students at HYS. I meant it as hyperbole. My point is that there seems to be a general consensus on here that if you're not in the top of a T14 class, you can count big law out- which is simply not true. What you lose is mobility. Obviously, if, as in my example, you're at a sub 50 school, you're only big law chances are in the same region as your school; an issue T14 people don't have to face. But, that chance IS present. With the class size of many lower ranked schools, that's the top 25-30 people in a class of 250. Far from impossible.

[rayiner]

The idea that top 15% at a T2 get biglaw is pre-ITE. That was the case back when everyone top 80-90% at a T14 could get a biglaw job. These days, when median at T14s are not a lock for biglaw, biglaw hiring at T2s has been absolutely decimated. Beyond that, getting in the top 10-15% is not predictable. It's some combination of work ethic, natural ability, and a bit of luck. Even the factor people think they ostensibly can control (working hard) isn't entirely predictable. Just because you got good grades in undergrad doesn't mean that you have the ability to sit and outline for 12 hours in a row. Trust me, it sounds a lot easier than it is!

[TTT-LS]

.

[06072010]

Why is OP even anonymous? Because of his friend? And some made up numbers? That apply to a certain state? Jesus man, stop?

[neskerdoo]

why are you posting anonymously, tardface?

[pany1985]

Being top 10-15% is hard. Your chance of even being in the top half is only 50/50. Great grades and Law Review will always impress employers, but they're impressive because they're difficult to get. I guess whether or not T2 law schools are really awash with HOPE or SAD depends on the optimism of the students, but in reality the people feeling the former are going to be a relative few.

[ruleser]

The main thing about posts like this is we know they will not apply when we are looking for jobs - the economy changes so much almost monthly.

[Anonymous User]

Bullshit. I go to a school in lower T100 (what some might call Tier 2 I think?) and only 2-3% of students got a summer associate gig. Last year the numbers were slightly less than 10% and the year before it was around 20%. These numbers are dead on, I've seen the lists of names. You might say "Oh well you are lower tier 2, no surprise very few students got SA's." Although we're a low ranked school, as you can see by the numbers from previous years, our placement in big law is better than some schools ranked better than us. It was a bloody OCI this year...

Do not get your hopes up. Still shoot for it, but don't bank on it. Next year should be better from what I've heard.

[Anonymous User]

Bullshit. I go to a school in lower T100 (what some might call Tier 2 I think?) and only 2-3% of students got a summer associate gig. Last year the numbers were slightly less than 10% and the year before it was around 20%. These numbers are dead on, I've seen the lists of names. You might say "Oh well you are lower tier 2, no surprise very few students got SA's." Although we're a low ranked school, as you can see by the numbers from previous years, our placement in big law is better than some schools ranked better than us. It was a bloody OCI this year...

Do not get your hopes up. Still shoot for it, but don't bank on it. Next year should be better from what I've heard.

This sounds exactly like the situation at my T2. OP is so wrong it's not even funny. I know three people in the top 5% who didn't get big law and two people in the top 10% who didn't get big law. None of these people are particularly socially awkward. It's just that hardly anybody at my school got jobs. 2-3% sounds about right.

[Kohinoor]

Being top 10-15% is hard. Your chance of even being in the top half is only 50/50. Great grades and Law Review will always impress employers, but they're impressive because they're difficult to get. I guess whether or not T2 law schools are really awash with HOPE or SAD depends on the optimism of the students, but in reality the people feeling the former are going to be a relative few.

Eh... your chances of being in the top half are not quite 50/50

[GATORTIM]

There are two main reasons for their failure:

1. Social awkwardness - I believe this plays significant role in why people don't get jobs.

This

[Anonymous User]

Bullshit. I go to a school in lower T100 (what some might call Tier 2 I think?) and only 2-3% of students got a summer associate gig. Last year the numbers were slightly less than 10% and the year before it was around 20%. These numbers are dead on, I've seen the lists of names. You might say "Oh well you are lower tier 2, no surprise very few students got SA's." Although we're a low ranked school, as you can see by the numbers from previous years, our placement in big law is better than some schools ranked better than us. It was a bloody OCI this year...

Do not get your hopes up. Still shoot for it, but don't bank on it. Next year should be better from what I've heard.

This sounds exactly like the situation at my T2. OP is so wrong it's not even funny. I know three people in the top 5% who didn't get big law and two people in the top 10% who didn't get big law. None of these people are particularly socially awkward. It's just that hardly anybody at my school got jobs. 2-3% sounds about right.

Yeah, I forgot to add the people who were in the top 5-10% were not socially awkward (at least the one's I met). I spoke with several of them one on one to offer advice about OCI and the few I spoke with were all personable.

I know people at schools in T20 and their class was really hurting too...kids in top 10-15% were not guaranteed offers by any stretch.

[98234872348]

Going to any law school with the intention of being in the top 10% of the class is an ill conceived ambition; as has been said, there are reasons to to to a school outside of the T14, however, naive hopes of landing a Biglaw gig, especially in this economy, should not be among those considered.

[BruceBarr]

Well...the top 10% at every law school can have big law if they want it.

(yes there are minor exceptions - but it would be < 10 schools)

Heck some of the top 10% at every school do not want big law - clerking, family firm, public interest, etc.

So...I thought everyone knew this?

It's not worth banking on of course.

It's just how it is.

DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT

Should have taken that Fee Waiver from Cooley.

[wardboro]

...

[irishman86]

The main thing about posts like this is we know they will not apply when we are looking for jobs - the economy changes so much almost monthly.

hahahahaha..no, it doesn't.

[BruceBarr]

The main thing about posts like this is we know they will not apply when we are looking for jobs - the economy changes so much almost monthly.

hahahahaha..no, it doesn't.

Ehh... when it comes to getting a job at a Big Firm, the slightest change counts. So yes, it does.