Thinking about dropping out Forum

[teaadntoast]

And if your utilities are actually $200 I would call your landlord or ConEd. There's no reason they should be that high unless the building has some kind of structural problem.

What kind of "structural problem" causes high utilities?

Poor insulation, for one thing. New York landlords are also required to provide adequate heat - and it's illegal for them to pass the cost on to the tenant. If the bill is over $200 in the winter that makes me thinks something is amiss - like that he stuck an electric heater in the room and called it a day, or used shoddy insulation when "renovating" to save money.

If the building is older and the landlord hasn't kept up with maintenance and repairs the wiring could be terrible and appliances hugely inefficient. Nor is it unheard of for people to steal electricity from their neighbors. This is much, much easier if the overall wiring in the building is bad and/or easily accessible to all tenants. Newer buildings keep circuit boxes locked for this reason, but in a subdivided house all you need to do is spend some time in the basement and there you are.

The landlord might also have decided to cut corners and kept the entire building on one meter - though that's rare.

[teaadntoast]

And if your utilities are actually $200 I would call your landlord or ConEd. There's no reason they should be that high unless the building has some kind of structural problem.

ok.. so I was off.. youll have 470-520/month to buy all your groceries, go to the doctor, go to the dentist, take a girl out to lunch...

Presumably insurance payments have already been taken out of your paycheck.

And it's unlikely you'll need to the doctor or the dentist every single month.

And $470.00 for discretionary spending in a city where there's literally some kind of free event every night isn't too shabby.

[ScaredWorkedBored]

You're wrong. You make a very bold assumption that the value of a physical asset (house, car, gold coins, etc...) will be worth more 2,3,or 10 years down the line than a JD from Columbia.

Yes, but you can ditch houses and cars when you don't want them anymore/they dont make financial sense. That doesn't work with educational loans.

It seems like the OP is bitching extensively about the idea of actually having to practice law and earn increases in his salary.

[pleasetryagain]

And if your utilities are actually $200 I would call your landlord or ConEd. There's no reason they should be that high unless the building has some kind of structural problem.

ok.. so I was off.. youll have 470-520/month to buy all your groceries, go to the doctor, go to the dentist, take a girl out to lunch...

Presumably insurance payments have already been taken out of your paycheck.

And it's unlikely you'll need to the doctor or the dentist every single month.

And $470.00 for discretionary spending in a city where there's literally some kind of free event every night isn't too shabby.

oh cmon.. now youre just grasping at straws ..

[pleasetryagain]

And if your utilities are actually $200 I would call your landlord or ConEd. There's no reason they should be that high unless the building has some kind of structural problem.

What kind of "structural problem" causes high utilities?

Poor insulation, for one thing. New York landlords are also required to provide adequate heat - and it's illegal for them to pass the cost on to the tenant. If the bill is over $200 in the winter that makes me thinks something is amiss - like that he stuck an electric heater in the room and called it a day, or used shoddy insulation when "renovating" to save money.

If the building is older and the landlord hasn't kept up with maintenance and repairs the wiring could be terrible and appliances hugely inefficient. Nor is it unheard of for people to steal electricity from their neighbors. This is much, much easier if the overall wiring in the building is bad and/or easily accessible to all tenants. Newer buildings keep circuit boxes locked for this reason, but in a subdivided house all you need to do is spend some time in the basement and there you are.

The landlord might also have decided to cut corners and kept the entire building on one meter - though that's rare.

none of these are structural problems btw..

[tetrahydrocannabinol]

Um.... did you read the title? Its thinking about dropping out, not thinking about transferring down.

His point was that OP will make a lot on money in the future if he stays in law school, irregardless to his low paying job initially, simply because OP now will graduate from Columbia. My argument was that is false and that it makes no difference that OP now goes to Columbia (and hence should drop out).

[teaadntoast]

Edited for clarification: If you live in NYC and have an electricity bill over $200 a month you might want to speak with the landlord or ConEd because there's likely a problem with the building or the way electricity if being monitored that's resulting in an inflated bill. If that's the case, it's not your job to fix it and the landlord is likely obligated to do something to bring costs down.

[helfer snooterbagon]

poor insulation [is a] structural problem

Absolutely not.

[teaadntoast]

poor insulation [is a] structural problem

Absolutely not.

Why not?

I'm honestly curious.

I should go back and change that bit of my post on the subject, since I seem to have used the word sufficiently imprecisely as to render none of the additional information helpful.

What I was trying to say was that if a person has a $200 electricity bill it's a problem with the building and, thus, the landlord's job to fix.

[teaadntoast]

And if your utilities are actually $200 I would call your landlord or ConEd. There's no reason they should be that high unless the building has some kind of structural problem.

ok.. so I was off.. youll have 470-520/month to buy all your groceries, go to the doctor, go to the dentist, take a girl out to lunch...

Presumably insurance payments have already been taken out of your paycheck.

And it's unlikely you'll need to the doctor or the dentist every single month.

And $470.00 for discretionary spending in a city where there's literally some kind of free event every night isn't too shabby.

oh cmon.. now youre just grasping at straws ..

Do you, um, live here?

[rayiner]

While it is possible that OP does extremely well as a lawyer at smaller firm, it is just a possible that OP makes a shitty lawyer and has trouble finding work elsewhere. Succeeding down the road to hopefully help you pay off your student loans is a shitty thing to hedge on, whereas simply making bank at the beginning and clearing out those loans in 5 years is much better (even if you end up being a shitty ass lawyer and get canned, at least you don't have debt to worry about).

Dude, you're a WINNAR!

And no shit getting biglaw and clearing out those loans in 5 years is the best option. I guess that's what the OP should do. I can't believe he didn't think of that!

Unfortunately for him, "making bank" is not an option. His options are to gamble on making at least $70k out of CLS or making $40k at whatever job he can get with his BA. Or making $100k/year on the poker circuit apparently, which obviates the rest of this discussion...

[tetrahydrocannabinol]

While it is possible that OP does extremely well as a lawyer at smaller firm, it is just a possible that OP makes a shitty lawyer and has trouble finding work elsewhere. Succeeding down the road to hopefully help you pay off your student loans is a shitty thing to hedge on, whereas simply making bank at the beginning and clearing out those loans in 5 years is much better (even if you end up being a shitty ass lawyer and get canned, at least you don't have debt to worry about).

Dude, you're a WINNAR!

And no shit getting biglaw and clearing out those loans in 5 years is the best option. I guess that's what the OP should do. I can't believe he didn't think of that!

Unfortunately for him, "making bank" is not an option. His options are to gamble on making at least $70k out of CLS or making $40k at whatever job he can get with his BA. Or making $100k/year on the poker circuit apparently, which obviates the rest of this discussion...

What kind of retard would tell him to stay in law school for shitty money in the future over just getting ripped and playing poker all day and getting paid to do it? Only better option than that would be to get into straight porn. So end of story, OP should drop out unless he is retarded.

[helfer snooterbagon]

Why not?

I'm honestly curious.

Structural Integrity refers to the ability to resist various forces that are placed on the building. The loads can generally be broken down into "normal" and "shear" loads. The structural framing resists the "normal" loads and the cladding (typically drywall for residential buildings) carries some of the shear load. Insulation decreaes heat transfer, primarily, but is also used to attenuate noise. Insulation does not resist loads though.

[teaadntoast]

Why not?

I'm honestly curious.

Structural Integrity refers to the ability to resist various forces that are placed on the building. The loads can generally be broken down into "normal" and "shear" loads. The structural framing resists the "normal" loads and the cladding (typically drywall for residential buildings) carries some of the shear load. Insulation decreaes heat transfer, primarily, but is also used to attenuate noise. Insulation does not resist loads though.

Gotcha.

So a building with a structural problem would be literally in danger of falling down at any time?

What sort of problem would the poor insulation be? Or is there no specific term for that sort of thing?

[FrankReynolds]

Most posters in this thread seemed to have pretty much ignored what OP has said. Granted, OP should probably have been a little more clear with what his alternate source of income was earlier in the thread. Disclaimer: I used to play online poker professionally before it was made illegal, and I still have many friends who do so(incomes range from 30k-300k+/year)

#1: LRAP/IBR is of no benefit to OP. First, he doesn't take out much in loans. Second, his income from poker will exclude him from LRAP/IBR. (I am assuming he will never completely quit poker)

#2: I would suggest sticking it out another year and see how you do at Columbia and how the economy changes. If you drop out now, I assume you could probably never go back to Columbia, and I assume if you stay another year you could decide to put off your third year indefinitely if you so wished. While this may seem like "buying stock while its sinking," I look do a simple risk/reward analysis. You just transferred to Columbia, and you have the ability to play poker to cover your expenses.

#3 Is it worth the risk to spend 40k or so on tuition and the time studying over the next 9 months to see if the legal market improves--or if you do well at Columbia? Granted, doing well at Columbia may be harder if you are also playing online poker 40 hours a week, so that is a choice you need to make and I am sure you are able to do. If the legal market improves or you do well at Columbia, the reward will certainly be high. As other have mentioned, top 20% at Indiana is not exactly great, and that may be affecting your job prospects. (caveat: even if you do well, the clerkship market for Class of 2011 is going to be brutal)

#4 I personally believe 90% of the motivated and not-socially-awkward students at T6 schools outside the bottom 20% or so will get biglaw jobs. Right now you are probably being grouped in the bottom due to your mediocre grades(for a transfer).

#5 Can you sell yourself? From what you have posted, I am getting the feeling you may be having a hard time selling yourself in interviews. In this economy, it is unfortunately(or fortunately, depending how you see it) the case that firms are putting greater value in students expressing an interest in a particular area of law--and tying that to their background and experiences. They don;t just wanna hire smart kids anymore--they are looking for a bit more.

(feel free to private message me if you'd like. I attend one of CCN.)

[dresden doll]

While it is possible that OP does extremely well as a lawyer at smaller firm, it is just a possible that OP makes a shitty lawyer and has trouble finding work elsewhere. Succeeding down the road to hopefully help you pay off your student loans is a shitty thing to hedge on, whereas simply making bank at the beginning and clearing out those loans in 5 years is much better (even if you end up being a shitty ass lawyer and get canned, at least you don't have debt to worry about).

Dude, you're a WINNAR!

And no shit getting biglaw and clearing out those loans in 5 years is the best option. I guess that's what the OP should do. I can't believe he didn't think of that!

Unfortunately for him, "making bank" is not an option. His options are to gamble on making at least $70k out of CLS or making $40k at whatever job he can get with his BA. Or making $100k/year on the poker circuit apparently, which obviates the rest of this discussion...

What kind of retard would tell him to stay in law school for shitty money in the future over just getting ripped and playing poker all day and getting paid to do it? Only better option than that would be to get into straight porn. So end of story, OP should drop out unless he is retarded.

I don't see why the concern over 'being a shitty lawyer' figures so prominently. OP mastered his 1L year - I wouldn't be too concerned about his ability to perform for the remainder of his LS tenure or in the real world.

[rayiner]

What kind of retard would tell him to stay in law school for shitty money in the future over just getting ripped and playing poker all day and getting paid to do it?

Well no shit. Maybe OP should've mentioned that in his OP. Kinda changes the scenario.

[tetrahydrocannabinol]

While it is possible that OP does extremely well as a lawyer at smaller firm, it is just a possible that OP makes a shitty lawyer and has trouble finding work elsewhere. Succeeding down the road to hopefully help you pay off your student loans is a shitty thing to hedge on, whereas simply making bank at the beginning and clearing out those loans in 5 years is much better (even if you end up being a shitty ass lawyer and get canned, at least you don't have debt to worry about).

Dude, you're a WINNAR!

And no shit getting biglaw and clearing out those loans in 5 years is the best option. I guess that's what the OP should do. I can't believe he didn't think of that!

Unfortunately for him, "making bank" is not an option. His options are to gamble on making at least $70k out of CLS or making $40k at whatever job he can get with his BA. Or making $100k/year on the poker circuit apparently, which obviates the rest of this discussion...

What kind of retard would tell him to stay in law school for shitty money in the future over just getting ripped and playing poker all day and getting paid to do it? Only better option than that would be to get into straight porn. So end of story, OP should drop out unless he is retarded.

I don't see why the concern over 'being a shitty lawyer' figures so prominently. OP mastered his 1L year - I wouldn't be too concerned about his ability to perform for the remainder of his LS tenure or in the real world.

Uhh.. I guess your not in law school yet, but as you'll soon learn, law school "doesn't actually teach you the law or how to be a lawyer" (just quote a couple of my 1L professors).

[helfer snooterbagon]

What sort of problem would the poor insulation be? Or is there no specific term for that sort of thing?

That would be a "construction defect" claim. Poor insulation can cause all sorts of problems, some of them very significant. You could face significant condenstion problems in the summer resulting in mold growth. Interestingly, if a building is too well insulated that can lead to a problem known as "sick building syndrome" You need a certain amount of leakage so that the air inside the buidling is replaced.

Construction law is a pretty interesting field.

[dresden doll]

What kind of retard would tell him to stay in law school for shitty money in the future over just getting ripped and playing poker all day and getting paid to do it? Only better option than that would be to get into straight porn. So end of story, OP should drop out unless he is retarded.

I don't see why the concern over 'being a shitty lawyer' figures so prominently. OP mastered his 1L year - I wouldn't be too concerned about his ability to perform for the remainder of his LS tenure or in the real world.

Uhh.. I guess your not in law school yet, but as you'll soon learn, law school "doesn't actually teach you the law or how to be a lawyer" (just quote a couple of my 1L professors).

I'm not in LS yet (U of C won't start till 9/29) but I would assume that the same traits/habits/personal qualities that enable a person to succeed in their 1L year serve them well once they graduate. I could, of course, be entirely wrong. ::shrugs shoulders::

[teaadntoast]

What sort of problem would the poor insulation be? Or is there no specific term for that sort of thing?

That would be a "construction defect" claim. Poor insulation can cause all sorts of problems, some of them very significant. You could face significant condenstion problems in the summer resulting in mold growth. Interestingly, if a building is too well insulated that can lead to a problem known as "sick building syndrome" You need a certain amount of leakage so that the air inside the buidling is replaced.

Construction law is a pretty interesting field.

How do you make sure there's proper leakage without opening yourself up to the problem of too much airflow?

[rayiner]

Uhh.. I guess your not in law school yet, but as you'll soon learn, law school "doesn't actually teach you the law or how to be a lawyer" (just quote a couple of my 1L professors).

LOLZ. Your 3 whole weeks as a 1L teach you that?

[helfer snooterbagon]

How do you make sure there's proper leakage without opening yourself up to the problem of too much airflow?

Too little leakage is rarely a problem. Most of the time just the opening of exterior doors will take care of it. In a more sophisticated building (multi floor residential or commercial) the Heating Ventilation and Air Conditioning System will be configured to provide a certain percentage of outside air.
Sometimes, an overzealous homeowner will go to great lengths to maximize the insulation of their home. If you get a situation where someone has plugged every possible leak, and does not come and go from the house partiuclarly often, you could face the issue of insignificant airflow.

[teaadntoast]

Too little leakage is rarely a problem. Most of the time just the opening of exterior doors will take care of it. In a more sophisticated building (multi floor residential or commercial) the Heating Ventilation and Air Conditioning System will be configured to provide a certain percentage of outside air.
Sometimes, an overzealous homeowner will go to great lengths to maximize the insulation of their home. If you get a situation where someone has plugged every possible leak, and does not come and go from the house partiuclarly often, you could face the issue of insignificant airflow.

Huh.

Interesting. Learn something new every day, I guess.

[tetrahydrocannabinol]

Uhh.. I guess your not in law school yet, but as you'll soon learn, law school "doesn't actually teach you the law or how to be a lawyer" (just quote a couple of my 1L professors).

LOLZ. Your 3 whole weeks as a 1L teach you that?

I'm a 2L, so I guess I have personal knowledge of it. I think the other big quote (during summer school) was, "the last 2 years of law school really serves no purposes." That seems true as well because it seems like the last 2 years are just there as an entry barrier.