OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread Forum

[chrisbru]

http://m.nordstrom.com/Product/Details/ ... oryid=null

What about these? Found them for even cheaper elsewhere.

I don't know about the brand at all, but they are the right idea (black, cap toe, balmoral)

[Bronte]

http://m.nordstrom.com/Product/Details/ ... oryid=null

What about these? Found them for even cheaper elsewhere.

I don't know about the brand at all, but they are the right idea (black, cap toe, balmoral)

The brand is well-regarded. They're fine. A bit Italian, but that's mostly preference.

[sprezz]

http://m.nordstrom.com/Product/Details/ ... oryid=null

What about these? Found them for even cheaper elsewhere.

sharp. get shoe trees, keep them out of rain, and spend the ~30 minutes on google to figure out nappa maintenance. i've heard it's slightly less forgiving than calf.

[Bronte]

I thought gold/dark yellow/whatever was the second pick behind dark red?

Yeah maybe so. The issue is probably contrast. But I think a navy pindot is OK with a charcoal suit, and a royal blue/navy blue houndstooth like the one I linked ends up contrasting well with both charcoal and navy suits. In general it's hard to imagine getting hurt by a blue tie.

[FryBreadPower]

Just picked up some Park Avenue's and a charcoal grey suit at Nordstrom's. I'm both excited and crying on the inside given how much money I just spent.

[Danger Zone]

http://m.nordstrom.com/Product/Details/ ... oryid=null

What about these? Found them for even cheaper elsewhere.

Dayum, those are mad nice. Fuck everyone that says we don't recommend anything but PAs ITT.

[Tiago Splitter]

OJ also killed Nicole and Ron while wearing a pair of Bruno Maglis if you're into that historical kind of thing.

[Bronte]

OJ also killed Nicole and Ron while wearing a pair of Bruno Maglis if you're into that historical kind of thing.

Lol.

[FryBreadPower]

OJ also killed Nicole and Ron while wearing a pair of Bruno Maglis if you're into that historical kind of thing.

Lol.

From the White Bronco to a White Shoe firm. Let's do this.

[BVest]

But he claimed he would never wear that kind of ugly ass shoe.

[Anonymous User]

Is a navy three button suit with pleated pants alright for OCI? It's a nice Hugo Boss suit and I know the flat front pants with a two button jacket is a more modern look but this suit still looks great so I'm not in a rush to go buy a new one.

[JRustle]

Is a navy three button suit with pleated pants alright for OCI? It's a nice Hugo Boss suit and I know the flat front pants with a two button jacket is a more modern look but this suit still looks great so I'm not in a rush to go buy a new one.

you've gotta be pretty tall to pull off a 3 button suit well.

[BVest]

Is a navy three button suit with pleated pants alright for OCI? It's a nice Hugo Boss suit and I know the flat front pants with a two button jacket is a more modern look but this suit still looks great so I'm not in a rush to go buy a new one.

you've gotta be pretty tall to pull off a 3 button suit well.

This. I've got several three-buttons that I wear well, but I'm kind of a freak (6'1" with short legs and a super long torso). I can wear most two-buttons as well, but there are some out there that just make me look like a gawky 14 year-old going through a growth spurt.

And I prefer pleated pants and curse the fashion bastards who drove them into obscurity. If you're wearing (i.e. buttoning/unbuttoning) your coat properly, the interviewers should have very little chance to see if you're wearing pleated or flat front pants.

[ClerkAdvisor]

I think people here are going a bit overboard on shoes. Having gone through OCI, having been on both sides of the clerkship hiring process, and having seen many big law attorneys in court, I think people are a bit crazy in here with their shoe advice.

First, if you don't have any dress shoes, then you should either (i) (agreeing with the majority here) purchase a pair of AE park ave's in black calf from Nordstrom's during the shoe sale (or AE store which will price match) or (ii) call up the AE shoebank and get a pair of AE park ave's or fifth ave's seconds in black calfskin (about the same price as the Nordstrom sale if you miss out on that). I would also agree that you should generally avoid J&M and Cole Haan, as for just a little bit more money you should be able to find an AE that is about 100x better quality.

Second, I don't think people here have advocated enough the ability to find great condition dress shoes from ebay. Yes, some people may get held up a bit on wearing second hand shoes, but AE's, Alden's, and BB/RL's (generally rebranded AE's and Alden's; go to syleforums for more info) will hold up well. This can be a great way for a younger professional to build a shoe collection at a reasonable price. Likewise, sites like 6pm.com frequently have AE's on sale.

Third, although some might believe that the black balmoral is the only acceptable shoe for an interview, this is a bit narrowminded and generally only followed by the people in this thread. In other words, you will do just fine if your only dress shoes are, say, AE strands, Macallisters, Fifth Ave's, or other shoes with some broguing on them. In the US, broguing (and various wingtips) are considered to be very acceptable for business dress. So, I would ignore the advice of people here who are insistent that those who fail to wear a black balmoral are doomed to failure.

Fourth, in reality, if you wear a pair of decent, polished leather shoes, you will be far ahead of your competition.

Finally, if an interviewer is going to ding you for wearing an AE MacAllister instead of an AE Park Ave, you don't want to work with that person or for that firm.

[Danger Zone]

Considering romo and I literally explained this within the last few pages, I'm just going to say

So, I would ignore the advice of people here who are insistent that those who fail to wear a black balmoral are doomed to failure.

Fuck you. And

if an interviewer is going to ding you for wearing an AE MacAllister instead of an AE Park Ave, you don't want to work with that person or for that firm.

Fuck you even harder for this. People would kill for any firm job ITE and I'm going to pass on a firm because the interviewer has picky taste in shoes? Not all of us are clerks for the 2nd Circuit bro.

[Bronte]

I think people here are going a bit overboard on shoes. Having gone through OCI, having been on both sides of the clerkship hiring process, and having seen many big law attorneys in court, I think people are a bit crazy in here with their shoe advice.

* * *

Finally, if an interviewer is going to ding you for wearing an AE MacAllister instead of an AE Park Ave, you don't want to work with that person or for that firm.

Among the many posts ITT criticizing its advice, this is one of the less hysterical and more well-thought out. But, then again, you're not really differing that strongly with the advice. I think the main thing is that there's a huge difference between someone asking if the attire they already have is passable and someone asking what they should buy. When it's the former, I usually give the thumbs up, and I think most other posters do as well.

I believe you can do fine at OCI wearing an ill-fitting pinstripe suit and a pair of rubber-soled loafers. I saw many of my peers do the same. The effect will be marginal. This thread gets nitpicky because it's a thread specifically about optimal attire. When it comes to what shoes are optimal, it's hard to argue that a pair of cap-toes isn't better than a pair of wing-tips. The latter are acceptable and laudable business attire but are less than utterly conservative.

As to not wanting to work somewhere that would ding you for this or that, I don't agree. First, it's not the firm that's dinging you, it's some random interviewer. Second, the market's tough. Applicants want every chance they can get.

[Bronte]

Danger Zone's post is a little much, but yeah the "doomed to failure" thing has become a classic straw man. Everyone concedes that attire is subordinate to grades, school, resume, interviewing ability, and just about everything else. It's just that this thread is about attire. So any advice comes with the obvious caveat that we're talking about something marginal. No one ever says you're doomed to failure unless you're talking about wearing coat tails.

[kaiser]

I just hope people understand what they are getting if they are spending so much extra for things like AE shoes for OCI. The benefits of the far more expensive shoes are more down-the-road benefits, as opposed to OCI necessities.

The big difference is the durability and build of the shoe. I own a pair of AE shoes, and they have a nicer feel all around, hold up much better, much less wear and tear, etc. Can't deny that they are durable and well-made shoes. But unless you are looking VERY closely, no one is going to be able to tell apart a brand new pair of black captoe oxfords from Cole Haan and a pair from AE. Thus, the benefit of the more expensive shoe is not something that will be realized at OCI itself. The benefit will be realized when, 5 years down the road, you have an excellent pair of shoes that is holding together just fine, and look like new once you polish them a bit. To a lesser extent, the same can be said of suits. A less-expensive suit can be tailored to look amazingly sharp, and could very well be perfect for OCI, whereas the Brooks Brothers suit is going to hold up better down the road.

So don't think that not having super expensive shoes will in any way hurt you at OCI. Just pick a conservative style, and no one can tell the difference past a certain point unless they got WAY too up close and personal (which they won't).

[Bronte]

I don't think anyone recommends AEs so you'll have fancy looking shoes at OCI. They recommend $230 Park Aves over $175 J&M Meltons because it's just a better buy. But within the past five pages I've recommended Meltons on sale for $100 on Amazon if the budget is tight. The reason posters get so frustrated with the detractors is because they invariably argue straw mans.

[ClerkAdvisor]

.

[Jsa725]

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[kaiser]

Any bro who takes care of his shoes can make a $100+ pair last more than 1-2 years, and without all that much effort.

[Jsa725]

.

[RodneyRuxin]

Value Calculations

I'm not sure what was supposed to be a joke, but to be fair you're not factoring in that PA's last 10 years when cycled(requires multiple pairs), and you're not considering recrafting costs($125per).

ETA didn't mean to ruin your fun

Also:

I don't think anyone recommends AEs so you'll have fancy looking shoes at OCI. They recommend $230 Park Aves over $175 J&M Meltons because it's just a better buy.

Earlier ITT:

First, if you don't have any dress shoes, then you should either (i) (agreeing with the majority here) purchase a pair of AE park ave's in black calf from Nordstrom's during the shoe sale (or AE store which will price match) or (ii) call up the AE shoebank and get a pair of AE park ave's or fifth ave's seconds in black calfskin (about the same price as the Nordstrom sale if you miss out on that). I would also agree that you should generally avoid J&M and Cole Haan, as for just a little bit more money you should be able to find an AE that is about 100x better quality.
.

I love my PA's just as much as the rest of you bros, but let's calm down ITT.

[Bronte]

I don't think anyone recommends AEs so you'll have fancy looking shoes at OCI. They recommend $230 Park Aves over $175 J&M Meltons because it's just a better buy.

Earlier ITT:

First, if you don't have any dress shoes, then you should either (i) (agreeing with the majority here) purchase a pair of AE park ave's in black calf from Nordstrom's during the shoe sale (or AE store which will price match) or (ii) call up the AE shoebank and get a pair of AE park ave's or fifth ave's seconds in black calfskin (about the same price as the Nordstrom sale if you miss out on that). I would also agree that you should generally avoid J&M and Cole Haan, as for just a little bit more money you should be able to find an AE that is about 100x better quality.
.

I love my PA's just as much as the rest of you bros, but let's calm down ITT.

First, quoting someone who's arguing that the advice in this thread is overzealous is a bit ironic in this context. Second, it's not clear that when he says you should buy shoes for a bit more money that are 100x better quality he means solely because they'll look better at OCI. He presumably means because they'll be a better shoe in the long run. Obviously you can get through OCI just fine with a $70 cap-toe, and people have said that many times.