Boies Schiller? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm a clerk interested in plaintiff's side work and they pay a nice bonus. Thinking about submitting an application but some research tells me they had a rocky couple years recently.

Anyone currently there or know anyone currently there who has a take on what it's like to work at BSF and how it's trending?

[Anonymous User]

I'm a clerk interested in plaintiff's side work and they pay a nice bonus. Thinking about submitting an application but some research tells me they had a rocky couple years recently.

Anyone currently there or know anyone currently there who has a take on what it's like to work at BSF and how it's trending?

From the outside, it seems to be having a better financial reality than most expected during the implosion.

But in terms of work quality and reputation, BSF is a far cry from what it used to be. Wouldn’t put it below Selendy Gay but it’s hard to put it above.

The clerkship bonus comes off more as “help, we arent recruiting clerks like we used to” and less like a sign of strength like it is for Quinn or Hueston Hennigan.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a clerk interested in plaintiff's side work and they pay a nice bonus. Thinking about submitting an application but some research tells me they had a rocky couple years recently.

Anyone currently there or know anyone currently there who has a take on what it's like to work at BSF and how it's trending?

From the outside, it seems to be having a better financial reality than most expected during the implosion.

But in terms of work quality and reputation, BSF is a far cry from what it used to be. Wouldn’t put it below Selendy Gay but it’s hard to put it above.

The clerkship bonus comes off more as “help, we arent recruiting clerks like we used to” and less like a sign of strength like it is for Quinn or Hueston Hennigan.

I’d agree with this but it does seem like they’re on the up again. Hired a new chairman and they paid out some insane bonuses last year. I’d say it’s a good investment now that you will reap in the future, even if their reputation today isn’t top top tier.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a clerk interested in plaintiff's side work and they pay a nice bonus. Thinking about submitting an application but some research tells me they had a rocky couple years recently.

Anyone currently there or know anyone currently there who has a take on what it's like to work at BSF and how it's trending?

From the outside, it seems to be having a better financial reality than most expected during the implosion.

But in terms of work quality and reputation, BSF is a far cry from what it used to be. Wouldn’t put it below Selendy Gay but it’s hard to put it above.

The clerkship bonus comes off more as “help, we arent recruiting clerks like we used to” and less like a sign of strength like it is for Quinn or Hueston Hennigan.

I’d agree with this but it does seem like they’re on the up again. Hired a new chairman and they paid out some insane bonuses last year. I’d say it’s a good investment now that you will reap in the future, even if their reputation today isn’t top top tier.

They promoted the new chairman from within and his track record is much less impressive than the leading lawyers at other boutiques, much less David Boies. Anecdotally, the bonuses seem tied heavily to billables, favoritism, and luck; the high bonuses were paid to a select few associates, not firm-wide like at SG. More importantly, their associate quality has tanked, and it's quite obvious when you review the work product that BSF is putting out these days. It's hard to see a world where BSF becomes a peer again with the true leaders of the plaintiffs' bar. To be fair, it's hard to see a world where BSF fades into total obscurity, which seemed a real possibility three or so years ago.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a clerk interested in plaintiff's side work and they pay a nice bonus. Thinking about submitting an application but some research tells me they had a rocky couple years recently.

Anyone currently there or know anyone currently there who has a take on what it's like to work at BSF and how it's trending?

From the outside, it seems to be having a better financial reality than most expected during the implosion.

But in terms of work quality and reputation, BSF is a far cry from what it used to be. Wouldn’t put it below Selendy Gay but it’s hard to put it above.

The clerkship bonus comes off more as “help, we arent recruiting clerks like we used to” and less like a sign of strength like it is for Quinn or Hueston Hennigan.

I’d agree with this but it does seem like they’re on the up again. Hired a new chairman and they paid out some insane bonuses last year. I’d say it’s a good investment now that you will reap in the future, even if their reputation today isn’t top top tier.

They promoted the new chairman from within and his track record is much less impressive than the leading lawyers at other boutiques, much less David Boies. Anecdotally, the bonuses seem tied heavily to billables, favoritism, and luck; the high bonuses were paid to a select few associates, not firm-wide like at SG. More importantly, their associate quality has tanked, and it's quite obvious when you review the work product that BSF is putting out these days. It's hard to see a world where BSF becomes a peer again with the true leaders of the plaintiffs' bar. To be fair, it's hard to see a world where BSF fades into total obscurity, which seemed a real possibility three or so years ago.

Who would you say are the leaders of the plaintiff’s bar?

[Anonymous User]

I'm a clerk interested in plaintiff's side work and they pay a nice bonus. Thinking about submitting an application but some research tells me they had a rocky couple years recently.

Anyone currently there or know anyone currently there who has a take on what it's like to work at BSF and how it's trending?

From the outside, it seems to be having a better financial reality than most expected during the implosion.

But in terms of work quality and reputation, BSF is a far cry from what it used to be. Wouldn’t put it below Selendy Gay but it’s hard to put it above.

The clerkship bonus comes off more as “help, we arent recruiting clerks like we used to” and less like a sign of strength like it is for Quinn or Hueston Hennigan.

I’d agree with this but it does seem like they’re on the up again. Hired a new chairman and they paid out some insane bonuses last year. I’d say it’s a good investment now that you will reap in the future, even if their reputation today isn’t top top tier.

They promoted the new chairman from within and his track record is much less impressive than the leading lawyers at other boutiques, much less David Boies. Anecdotally, the bonuses seem tied heavily to billables, favoritism, and luck; the high bonuses were paid to a select few associates, not firm-wide like at SG. More importantly, their associate quality has tanked, and it's quite obvious when you review the work product that BSF is putting out these days. It's hard to see a world where BSF becomes a peer again with the true leaders of the plaintiffs' bar. To be fair, it's hard to see a world where BSF fades into total obscurity, which seemed a real possibility three or so years ago.

Who would you say are the leaders of the plaintiff’s bar?

For the type of firm that BSF is now trying to be -- an all-around commercial lit firm that makes a premium on contingency and other alternative-fee cases -- the leaders include SG and KH. Most other nationally renowned boutiques handle mostly defense-side cases and therefore don't make this list; in fact, some would argue that it is disingenuous to even call KH and to a lesser degree SG "plaintiff-side" firms.

For pure plaintiff-side firms, the list is different and the leaders include Dovel & Luner, Lieff Cabraser, Seeger Weiss, Cohen Milstein, Robins Geller, and so on. Most of these firms have a particular niche. Relatedly, there are very strong firms that practice primarily in civil rights, labor, etc. and therefore end up frequently representing plaintiffs, but most people wouldn't include such firms on a list of "plaintiff-side" firms.

[Anonymous User]

I work at BSF and enjoy it. I've done three trials in the past 6 months and I don't think I would have gotten that opportunity at basically any other market paying firm. I like the fact that first years and second years can argue at pretrial conferences and at summary judgment hearings. Junior associates also get full ownership of briefs, complaints, motions to dismiss; rather than only researching narrow issues for individual sections.

I don't think the associate quality has fallen off, as another anon claimed. Our recent hires have been SDNY, DC Cir, 2nd Cir clerks, laterals from Wachtell, HYS/CCN grads with top grades etc. and our incoming associates look even better IMO.

Also, bonusses are not based on favoritism or the like, its a formula. So you get your hours X your rate X some discount factors and then minus your base comp. So if you had 2000 billable hours as a junior your bonus would be somewhere around 115K (don't quote me on the exact number). Pro bono is counted the same as billable, and then for contingency you get a slice of the pie based on your hours for that matter. Lastly you get some of the origination credit for things like client pitches or just working hard on a case. While the big million dollar bonuses aren't firm wide, just about everyone got above market, and mostly way above market. Even the year before this, about half of associates had bonusses above what the most senior associate would get on the Cravath scale.

Lastly, I think Matt Schwartz's track record is pretty strong. The dude took down Bernie Madoff at SDNY and got three John Marshall's from the DOJ. Plus, the Wolf of Wall Street case and the Kazakhstan cases. I think he's pretty legit, especially for a 40 something yr old. But I guess he's not as famous as Robbie Kaplan, if that's what you mean by track record.

[Anonymous User]

I work at BSF and enjoy it. I've done three trials in the past 6 months and I don't think I would have gotten that opportunity at basically any other market paying firm. I like the fact that first years and second years can argue at pretrial conferences and at summary judgment hearings. Junior associates also get full ownership of briefs, complaints, motions to dismiss; rather than only researching narrow issues for individual sections.

I don't think the associate quality has fallen off, as another anon claimed. Our recent hires have been SDNY, DC Cir, 2nd Cir clerks, laterals from Wachtell, HYS/CCN grads with top grades etc. and our incoming associates look even better IMO.

Also, bonusses are not based on favoritism or the like, its a formula. So you get your hours X your rate X some discount factors and then minus your base comp. So if you had 2000 billable hours as a junior your bonus would be somewhere around 115K (don't quote me on the exact number). Pro bono is counted the same as billable, and then for contingency you get a slice of the pie based on your hours for that matter. Lastly you get some of the origination credit for things like client pitches or just working hard on a case. While the big million dollar bonuses aren't firm wide, just about everyone got above market, and mostly way above market. Even the year before this, about half of associates had bonusses above what the most senior associate would get on the Cravath scale.

Lastly, I think Matt Schwartz's track record is pretty strong. The dude took down Bernie Madoff at SDNY and got three John Marshall's from the DOJ. Plus, the Wolf of Wall Street case and the Kazakhstan cases. I think he's pretty legit, especially for a 40 something yr old. But I guess he's not as famous as Robbie Kaplan, if that's what you mean by track record.

If true, the bonuses seem pretty sweet.

Re associate quality: 1) Go to BSF’s website. 2) Filter by associate. 3) Filter by clerkship. 4) No 2d, 7th, or 9th Cir. clerks. One SDNY clerk who only landed the clerkship after two state court clerkships. One DC Cir clerk who clerked for a known ideologue. Associate quality has undoubtedly tanked.

Matt Schwartz is not an outstanding complex civil litigator. Full stop.

[Anonymous User]

I work at BSF and enjoy it. I've done three trials in the past 6 months and I don't think I would have gotten that opportunity at basically any other market paying firm. I like the fact that first years and second years can argue at pretrial conferences and at summary judgment hearings. Junior associates also get full ownership of briefs, complaints, motions to dismiss; rather than only researching narrow issues for individual sections.

I don't think the associate quality has fallen off, as another anon claimed. Our recent hires have been SDNY, DC Cir, 2nd Cir clerks, laterals from Wachtell, HYS/CCN grads with top grades etc. and our incoming associates look even better IMO.

Also, bonusses are not based on favoritism or the like, its a formula. So you get your hours X your rate X some discount factors and then minus your base comp. So if you had 2000 billable hours as a junior your bonus would be somewhere around 115K (don't quote me on the exact number). Pro bono is counted the same as billable, and then for contingency you get a slice of the pie based on your hours for that matter. Lastly you get some of the origination credit for things like client pitches or just working hard on a case. While the big million dollar bonuses aren't firm wide, just about everyone got above market, and mostly way above market. Even the year before this, about half of associates had bonusses above what the most senior associate would get on the Cravath scale.

Lastly, I think Matt Schwartz's track record is pretty strong. The dude took down Bernie Madoff at SDNY and got three John Marshall's from the DOJ. Plus, the Wolf of Wall Street case and the Kazakhstan cases. I think he's pretty legit, especially for a 40 something yr old. But I guess he's not as famous as Robbie Kaplan, if that's what you mean by track record.

If true, the bonuses seem pretty sweet.

Re associate quality: 1) Go to BSF’s website. 2) Filter by associate. 3) Filter by clerkship. 4) No 2d, 7th, or 9th Cir. clerks. One SDNY clerk who only landed the clerkship after two state court clerkships. One DC Cir clerk who clerked for a known ideologue. Associate quality has undoubtedly tanked.

Matt Schwartz is not an outstanding complex civil litigator. Full stop.

Ironically the DC Circuit clerk you're insulting (who is brilliant FYI) is a gay DNC delegate.

[Anonymous User]

I work at BSF and enjoy it. I've done three trials in the past 6 months and I don't think I would have gotten that opportunity at basically any other market paying firm. I like the fact that first years and second years can argue at pretrial conferences and at summary judgment hearings. Junior associates also get full ownership of briefs, complaints, motions to dismiss; rather than only researching narrow issues for individual sections.

I don't think the associate quality has fallen off, as another anon claimed. Our recent hires have been SDNY, DC Cir, 2nd Cir clerks, laterals from Wachtell, HYS/CCN grads with top grades etc. and our incoming associates look even better IMO.

Also, bonusses are not based on favoritism or the like, its a formula. So you get your hours X your rate X some discount factors and then minus your base comp. So if you had 2000 billable hours as a junior your bonus would be somewhere around 115K (don't quote me on the exact number). Pro bono is counted the same as billable, and then for contingency you get a slice of the pie based on your hours for that matter. Lastly you get some of the origination credit for things like client pitches or just working hard on a case. While the big million dollar bonuses aren't firm wide, just about everyone got above market, and mostly way above market. Even the year before this, about half of associates had bonusses above what the most senior associate would get on the Cravath scale.

Lastly, I think Matt Schwartz's track record is pretty strong. The dude took down Bernie Madoff at SDNY and got three John Marshall's from the DOJ. Plus, the Wolf of Wall Street case and the Kazakhstan cases. I think he's pretty legit, especially for a 40 something yr old. But I guess he's not as famous as Robbie Kaplan, if that's what you mean by track record.

If true, the bonuses seem pretty sweet.

Re associate quality: 1) Go to BSF’s website. 2) Filter by associate. 3) Filter by clerkship. 4) No 2d, 7th, or 9th Cir. clerks. One SDNY clerk who only landed the clerkship after two state court clerkships. One DC Cir clerk who clerked for a known ideologue. Associate quality has undoubtedly tanked.

Matt Schwartz is not an outstanding complex civil litigator. Full stop.

Ironically the DC Circuit clerk you're insulting (who is brilliant FYI) is a gay DNC delegate.

Sure. Great! But on the whole, the BSF associates of today are leagues removed from the BSF associates of yesteryear. That much is incontrovertible.

Who knows what the future holds?

[Anonymous User]

As an anecdote: a few months ago I met two former BSF associates while I was doing the interviewing rounds at various NYC lit boutiques (the non Susman ones). Each of them left BSF in 2020-2022 on the advice of partners exiting BSF, and I got slightly regretful vibes from each of them. It sounds like something about the culture at the firm was/is excellent for litigators and that something has not been replicated at the MoloLamkens of the world. Another anecdote: unlike the MoloLamkens of the world, BSF did not send clerk recruiting materials to the SDNY chambers I clerked in.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a clerk interested in plaintiff's side work and they pay a nice bonus. Thinking about submitting an application but some research tells me they had a rocky couple years recently.

Anyone currently there or know anyone currently there who has a take on what it's like to work at BSF and how it's trending?

From the outside, it seems to be having a better financial reality than most expected during the implosion.

But in terms of work quality and reputation, BSF is a far cry from what it used to be. Wouldn’t put it below Selendy Gay but it’s hard to put it above.

The clerkship bonus comes off more as “help, we arent recruiting clerks like we used to” and less like a sign of strength like it is for Quinn or Hueston Hennigan.

As a law clerk in a "prestigious" district, I (and the clerks I've spoken to) do not view the clerkship bonus that way. We view it much more like a proxy for how much the law firm values hiring strong litigators. Naturally, for law firms with big corporate practices, they would not offer $150,000 to clerkship hires, and it's a warning sign for clerks that that firm does not prioritize its litigation practice.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a clerk interested in plaintiff's side work and they pay a nice bonus. Thinking about submitting an application but some research tells me they had a rocky couple years recently.

Anyone currently there or know anyone currently there who has a take on what it's like to work at BSF and how it's trending?

From the outside, it seems to be having a better financial reality than most expected during the implosion.

But in terms of work quality and reputation, BSF is a far cry from what it used to be. Wouldn’t put it below Selendy Gay but it’s hard to put it above.

The clerkship bonus comes off more as “help, we arent recruiting clerks like we used to” and less like a sign of strength like it is for Quinn or Hueston Hennigan.

As a law clerk in a "prestigious" district, I (and the clerks I've spoken to) do not view the clerkship bonus that way. We view it much more like a proxy for how much the law firm values hiring strong litigators. Naturally, for law firms with big corporate practices, they would not offer $150,000 to clerkship hires, and it's a warning sign for clerks that that firm does not prioritize its litigation practice.

Yeah that’s a very odd take that a firm would out of desperation start throwing 150k at any warm body that’s clerked.

I think the right answer is Boies is obviously on an upward trajectory from their fallout a couple years back. They just reported a 50%+ increase in revenue from last year. They are definitely a high end all around lit (plaintiff and defense) firm, on the same tier as Quinn, but a notch below truly elite lit firms like susman, munger, hueston, Keker van nest.