AMA Plaintiffs Employment Lawyer Forum

[Lacepiece23]

Longtime TLS member. Did one of these before. I did five years in biglaw. Had a short stint as a federal clerk. And now own a plaintiffs employment law firm.

I have an associate, operations manager, and receptionist. Looking to expand.

I did one of these threads when I first started. I’m now about 4 years in. Happy to answer questions based on my experience so far.

[Anonymous User]

How much of your business is driven by online advertising ? Any thoughts or advice in general for online advertising / SEO and choosing an agency?

[Dr Tobias Funke]

Longtime TLS member. Did one of these before. I did five years in biglaw. Had a short stint as a federal clerk. And now own a plaintiffs employment law firm.

I have an associate, operations manager, and receptionist. Looking to expand.

I did one of these threads when I first started. I’m now about 4 years in. Happy to answer questions based on my experience so far.

How much of your business is legit claims and how much of it is BS demand letters looking for a big severance payment post-termination?

[Lacepiece23]

How much of your business is driven by online advertising ? Any thoughts or advice in general for online advertising / SEO and choosing an agency?

Like 90% is SEO. I have a bit of help with it but did most of it myself. My area is filled with older lawyers and SEO wasn’t all that competitive in the markets I picked.

Not in CA where everything is worth more.

[Lacepiece23]

Longtime TLS member. Did one of these before. I did five years in biglaw. Had a short stint as a federal clerk. And now own a plaintiffs employment law firm.

I have an associate, operations manager, and receptionist. Looking to expand.

I did one of these threads when I first started. I’m now about 4 years in. Happy to answer questions based on my experience so far.

How much of your business is legit claims and how much of it is BS demand letters looking for a big severance payment post-termination?

I have an ethical duty to only take matters with a good faith basis, which is what I do.

[Anonymous User]

How much of your business is driven by online advertising ? Any thoughts or advice in general for online advertising / SEO and choosing an agency?

Like 90% is SEO. I have a bit of help with it but did most of it myself. My area is filled with older lawyers and SEO wasn’t all that competitive in the markets I picked.

Not in CA where everything is worth more.

Are there any particular resources you used to learn SEO? I'm like you five years ago lol

[Lacepiece23]

How much of your business is driven by online advertising ? Any thoughts or advice in general for online advertising / SEO and choosing an agency?

Like 90% is SEO. I have a bit of help with it but did most of it myself. My area is filled with older lawyers and SEO wasn’t all that competitive in the markets I picked.

Not in CA where everything is worth more.

Are there any particular resources you used to learn SEO? I'm like you five years ago lol

Honestly just Googled things. There are millions of articles out there and it’s pretty simple. Get backlinks, right content with LSI, etc. most of it is about the maps or has been for the last five years plus. So it’s really about getting high quality reviews.

All of my reviews are so good I can’t do much wrong with my clients because they think it’s them, not me.

[OldSchoolLitigator]

How much are you netting?
How many hours do you put in per day?
What is the typical settlement amount before discovery starts?

[Lacepiece23]

How much are you netting?
How many hours do you put in per day?
What is the typical settlement amount before discovery starts?

All I’ll say about net is that financially it was a good decision for me to leave biglaw. I’m probably at the higher end of the percentile for employment attorneys in my market.

Any where from 40-60 hours a week depending on the level of busy I am. Lately it’s been close to 40-45.

Average around 10-13k in fees prelit. I take most my lit cases past summary judgment these days. I try to average 40-60k in fees on litigations with some outliers at both ends.

[sleepyzombie]

1. What do you like and dislike about your current job compared to biglaw?
2. Are clerkships been helpful in this line of work?

[Anonymous User]

How much are you netting?
How many hours do you put in per day?
What is the typical settlement amount before discovery starts?

All I’ll say about net is that financially it was a good decision for me to leave biglaw. I’m probably at the higher end of the percentile for employment attorneys in my market.

Any where from 40-60 hours a week depending on the level of busy I am. Lately it’s been close to 40-45.

Average around 10-13k in fees prelit. I take most my lit cases past summary judgment these days. I try to average 40-60k in fees on litigations with some outliers at both ends.

Why even do this AMA if you are unwilling to be more specific about comp …

[Lacepiece23]

1. What do you like and dislike about your current job compared to biglaw?
2. Are clerkships been helpful in this line of work?

I dislike dealing with employees, operations, systems, and especially anything payroll related.

Basically the operations part of the business. I’m lucky to have someone who likes that stuff and helps me with a lot of it.

Clerkships are always helpful for litigation. Mine is helpful with the intangibles. It was no secret who the good plaintiffs are and the bad ones. Was good to get to see some good ones and what they did. From like a prestige or networking standpoint, no one really cares.

[Lacepiece23]

How much are you netting?
How many hours do you put in per day?
What is the typical settlement amount before discovery starts?

All I’ll say about net is that financially it was a good decision for me to leave biglaw. I’m probably at the higher end of the percentile for employment attorneys in my market.

Any where from 40-60 hours a week depending on the level of busy I am. Lately it’s been close to 40-45.

Average around 10-13k in fees prelit. I take most my lit cases past summary judgment these days. I try to average 40-60k in fees on litigations with some outliers at both ends.

Why even do this AMA if you are unwilling to be more specific about comp …

I don’t feel like telling the internet how much I make since I’m not anon. I can say that it varies. I’m the owner of a two lawyer firm. I’d say that someone in my position is likely to do better than someone who went in house after five years of biglaw, especially as a litigator.

I think being a plaintiffs lawyers is the best exit option from a financial standpoint for a litigator.

Also, it’s easier to keep all of your equity as a small firm owner with just a few attorneys and staff than at mid sized firms where you might make equity. Maybe that’s a bit more helpful, sorry if it’s not.

[OldSchoolLitigator]

How much are you netting?
How many hours do you put in per day?
What is the typical settlement amount before discovery starts?

All I’ll say about net is that financially it was a good decision for me to leave biglaw. I’m probably at the higher end of the percentile for employment attorneys in my market.

Any where from 40-60 hours a week depending on the level of busy I am. Lately it’s been close to 40-45.

Average around 10-13k in fees prelit. I take most my lit cases past summary judgment these days. I try to average 40-60k in fees on litigations with some outliers at both ends.

When you say 10-13k prelit, do you mean before filing or before heavy discovery?
When you say 40-60k on litigations, do you mean post-heavy discovery, post-MSJ, or post-trial.
(I'm also a litigator, but in a completely different subject area.)

[Lacepiece23]

How much are you netting?
How many hours do you put in per day?
What is the typical settlement amount before discovery starts?

All I’ll say about net is that financially it was a good decision for me to leave biglaw. I’m probably at the higher end of the percentile for employment attorneys in my market.

Any where from 40-60 hours a week depending on the level of busy I am. Lately it’s been close to 40-45.

Average around 10-13k in fees prelit. I take most my lit cases past summary judgment these days. I try to average 40-60k in fees on litigations with some outliers at both ends.

When you say 10-13k prelit, do you mean before filing or before heavy discovery?
When you say 40-60k on litigations, do you mean post-heavy discovery, post-MSJ, or post-trial.
(I'm also a litigator, but in a completely different subject area.)

I mean anything up until filing the complaint. It’s usually just a letter. Sometimes I have to do a mediation. But nothing more than that. My hourly rate tends to be very good on pre-lit matters and we are making more of a push for those.

Litigation matters can be the losers in my opinion. I think the worst thing you can do is half ass a lit case and try to get out before summary judgment. There is almost never substantial money before summary judgment. And you do a ton of work to get there.

So these days we are aiming for 60-80k in fees per lot case with everything resolving in one way or another after summary judgment.

I’m not including trial in there. For trial we get a minimum of 300k based on our fee petitions. It’s almost the case that the amount we win at trial doesn’t matter because the comp generally comes from the fee petition.

Once I started focusing my practice, my firm became much more profitable.

[Anonymous User]

How much of your business is driven by online advertising ? Any thoughts or advice in general for online advertising / SEO and choosing an agency?

Like 90% is SEO. I have a bit of help with it but did most of it myself. My area is filled with older lawyers and SEO wasn’t all that competitive in the markets I picked.

Not in CA where everything is worth more.

Are there any particular resources you used to learn SEO? I'm like you five years ago lol

Honestly just Googled things. There are millions of articles out there and it’s pretty simple. Get backlinks, right content with LSI, etc. most of it is about the maps or has been for the last five years plus. So it’s really about getting high quality reviews.

All of my reviews are so good I can’t do much wrong with my clients because they think it’s them, not me.

How long did it take for you to start seeing results with SEo?

[Lacepiece23]

How much of your business is driven by online advertising ? Any thoughts or advice in general for online advertising / SEO and choosing an agency?

Like 90% is SEO. I have a bit of help with it but did most of it myself. My area is filled with older lawyers and SEO wasn’t all that competitive in the markets I picked.

Not in CA where everything is worth more.

Are there any particular resources you used to learn SEO? I'm like you five years ago lol

Honestly just Googled things. There are millions of articles out there and it’s pretty simple. Get backlinks, right content with LSI, etc. most of it is about the maps or has been for the last five years plus. So it’s really about getting high quality reviews.

All of my reviews are so good I can’t do much wrong with my clients because they think it’s them, not me.

How long did it take for you to start seeing results with SEo?

About a month. Different time, before many employment lawyers started to even try and get Google reviews.

[Anonymous User]

How much are you netting?
How many hours do you put in per day?
What is the typical settlement amount before discovery starts?

All I’ll say about net is that financially it was a good decision for me to leave biglaw. I’m probably at the higher end of the percentile for employment attorneys in my market.

Any where from 40-60 hours a week depending on the level of busy I am. Lately it’s been close to 40-45.

Average around 10-13k in fees prelit. I take most my lit cases past summary judgment these days. I try to average 40-60k in fees on litigations with some outliers at both ends.

When you say 10-13k prelit, do you mean before filing or before heavy discovery?
When you say 40-60k on litigations, do you mean post-heavy discovery, post-MSJ, or post-trial.
(I'm also a litigator, but in a completely different subject area.)

I mean anything up until filing the complaint. It’s usually just a letter. Sometimes I have to do a mediation. But nothing more than that. My hourly rate tends to be very good on pre-lit matters and we are making more of a push for those.

Litigation matters can be the losers in my opinion. I think the worst thing you can do is half ass a lit case and try to get out before summary judgment. There is almost never substantial money before summary judgment. And you do a ton of work to get there.

So these days we are aiming for 60-80k in fees per lot case with everything resolving in one way or another after summary judgment.

I’m not including trial in there. For trial we get a minimum of 300k based on our fee petitions. It’s almost the case that the amount we win at trial doesn’t matter because the comp generally comes from the fee petition.

Once I started focusing my practice, my firm became much more profitable.

10-13k prelit
60k-80k for surviving SJ
300k for trials
Dude.
You’re killing it.

I thought personal injury was lucrative.
Employment law is the move

[Lacepiece23]

How much are you netting?
How many hours do you put in per day?
What is the typical settlement amount before discovery starts?

All I’ll say about net is that financially it was a good decision for me to leave biglaw. I’m probably at the higher end of the percentile for employment attorneys in my market.

Any where from 40-60 hours a week depending on the level of busy I am. Lately it’s been close to 40-45.

Average around 10-13k in fees prelit. I take most my lit cases past summary judgment these days. I try to average 40-60k in fees on litigations with some outliers at both ends.

When you say 10-13k prelit, do you mean before filing or before heavy discovery?
When you say 40-60k on litigations, do you mean post-heavy discovery, post-MSJ, or post-trial.
(I'm also a litigator, but in a completely different subject area.)

I mean anything up until filing the complaint. It’s usually just a letter. Sometimes I have to do a mediation. But nothing more than that. My hourly rate tends to be very good on pre-lit matters and we are making more of a push for those.

Litigation matters can be the losers in my opinion. I think the worst thing you can do is half ass a lit case and try to get out before summary judgment. There is almost never substantial money before summary judgment. And you do a ton of work to get there.

So these days we are aiming for 60-80k in fees per lot case with everything resolving in one way or another after summary judgment.

I’m not including trial in there. For trial we get a minimum of 300k based on our fee petitions. It’s almost the case that the amount we win at trial doesn’t matter because the comp generally comes from the fee petition.

Once I started focusing my practice, my firm became much more profitable.

10-13k prelit
60k-80k for surviving SJ
300k for trials
Dude.
You’re killing it.

I thought personal injury was lucrative.
Employment law is the move

I’d say a few things about that. 1) PI will always have a higher ceiling. Many more attorneys clear seven figures year in and out. The thing that’s tough with PI is competing for cases. It’s only getting harder with mega firms buying up all the billboards and clicks on Google.

2) the advantage of employment law is that there is relatively lower competition for cases. My overhead is lower so I don’t give much in referral fees or marketing costs.

3) I can handle far fewer cases than PI. I top out around 30-40 cases in my practice. Some PI lawyers can handle 100. So, there is more opportunity for volume and scale on the PI side.

4) We lose more often than PI. Defendants get summary judgment often. I have a pretty good success rate so far in SJ but I haven’t gotten enough decisions yet to form an opinion on whether that trend is going to hold. So there is that.

But overall you can make a very nice living as an employment attorney, especially in an employer friendly state like CA or NJ.

This is just anecdote. But I think we may do slightly better at the median but the high is very high in PI.

[Anonymous User]

How much are you netting?
How many hours do you put in per day?
What is the typical settlement amount before discovery starts?

All I’ll say about net is that financially it was a good decision for me to leave biglaw. I’m probably at the higher end of the percentile for employment attorneys in my market.

Any where from 40-60 hours a week depending on the level of busy I am. Lately it’s been close to 40-45.

Average around 10-13k in fees prelit. I take most my lit cases past summary judgment these days. I try to average 40-60k in fees on litigations with some outliers at both ends.

When you say 10-13k prelit, do you mean before filing or before heavy discovery?
When you say 40-60k on litigations, do you mean post-heavy discovery, post-MSJ, or post-trial.
(I'm also a litigator, but in a completely different subject area.)

I mean anything up until filing the complaint. It’s usually just a letter. Sometimes I have to do a mediation. But nothing more than that. My hourly rate tends to be very good on pre-lit matters and we are making more of a push for those.

Litigation matters can be the losers in my opinion. I think the worst thing you can do is half ass a lit case and try to get out before summary judgment. There is almost never substantial money before summary judgment. And you do a ton of work to get there.

So these days we are aiming for 60-80k in fees per lot case with everything resolving in one way or another after summary judgment.

I’m not including trial in there. For trial we get a minimum of 300k based on our fee petitions. It’s almost the case that the amount we win at trial doesn’t matter because the comp generally comes from the fee petition.

Once I started focusing my practice, my firm became much more profitable.

10-13k prelit
60k-80k for surviving SJ
300k for trials
Dude.
You’re killing it.

I thought personal injury was lucrative.
Employment law is the move

I’d say a few things about that. 1) PI will always have a higher ceiling. Many more attorneys clear seven figures year in and out. The thing that’s tough with PI is competing for cases. It’s only getting harder with mega firms buying up all the billboards and clicks on Google.

2) the advantage of employment law is that there is relatively lower competition for cases. My overhead is lower so I don’t give much in referral fees or marketing costs.

3) I can handle far fewer cases than PI. I top out around 30-40 cases in my practice. Some PI lawyers can handle 100. So, there is more opportunity for volume and scale on the PI side.

4) We lose more often than PI. Defendants get summary judgment often. I have a pretty good success rate so far in SJ but I haven’t gotten enough decisions yet to form an opinion on whether that trend is going to hold. So there is that.

But overall you can make a very nice living as an employment attorney, especially in an employer friendly state like CA or NJ.

This is just anecdote. But I think we may do slightly better at the median but the high is very high in PI.

Got it. You’re still killing it, but the context is helpful.

[OldSchoolLitigator]

How much are you netting?
How many hours do you put in per day?
What is the typical settlement amount before discovery starts?

All I’ll say about net is that financially it was a good decision for me to leave biglaw. I’m probably at the higher end of the percentile for employment attorneys in my market.

Any where from 40-60 hours a week depending on the level of busy I am. Lately it’s been close to 40-45.

Average around 10-13k in fees prelit. I take most my lit cases past summary judgment these days. I try to average 40-60k in fees on litigations with some outliers at both ends.

When you say 10-13k prelit, do you mean before filing or before heavy discovery?
When you say 40-60k on litigations, do you mean post-heavy discovery, post-MSJ, or post-trial.
(I'm also a litigator, but in a completely different subject area.)

I mean anything up until filing the complaint. It’s usually just a letter. Sometimes I have to do a mediation. But nothing more than that. My hourly rate tends to be very good on pre-lit matters and we are making more of a push for those.

Litigation matters can be the losers in my opinion. I think the worst thing you can do is half ass a lit case and try to get out before summary judgment. There is almost never substantial money before summary judgment. And you do a ton of work to get there.

So these days we are aiming for 60-80k in fees per lot case with everything resolving in one way or another after summary judgment.

I’m not including trial in there. For trial we get a minimum of 300k based on our fee petitions. It’s almost the case that the amount we win at trial doesn’t matter because the comp generally comes from the fee petition.

Once I started focusing my practice, my firm became much more profitable.

10-13k prelit
60k-80k for surviving SJ
300k for trials
Dude.
You’re killing it.

I thought personal injury was lucrative.
Employment law is the move

I’d say a few things about that. 1) PI will always have a higher ceiling. Many more attorneys clear seven figures year in and out. The thing that’s tough with PI is competing for cases. It’s only getting harder with mega firms buying up all the billboards and clicks on Google.

2) the advantage of employment law is that there is relatively lower competition for cases. My overhead is lower so I don’t give much in referral fees or marketing costs.

3) I can handle far fewer cases than PI. I top out around 30-40 cases in my practice. Some PI lawyers can handle 100. So, there is more opportunity for volume and scale on the PI side.

4) We lose more often than PI. Defendants get summary judgment often. I have a pretty good success rate so far in SJ but I haven’t gotten enough decisions yet to form an opinion on whether that trend is going to hold. So there is that.

But overall you can make a very nice living as an employment attorney, especially in an employer friendly state like CA or NJ.

This is just anecdote. But I think we may do slightly better at the median but the high is very high in PI.

Come on man, tell us what a "very nice living" means, around 300k net, around 700k net?

[Lacepiece23]

How much are you netting?
How many hours do you put in per day?
What is the typical settlement amount before discovery starts?

All I’ll say about net is that financially it was a good decision for me to leave biglaw. I’m probably at the higher end of the percentile for employment attorneys in my market.

Any where from 40-60 hours a week depending on the level of busy I am. Lately it’s been close to 40-45.

Average around 10-13k in fees prelit. I take most my lit cases past summary judgment these days. I try to average 40-60k in fees on litigations with some outliers at both ends.

When you say 10-13k prelit, do you mean before filing or before heavy discovery?
When you say 40-60k on litigations, do you mean post-heavy discovery, post-MSJ, or post-trial.
(I'm also a litigator, but in a completely different subject area.)

I mean anything up until filing the complaint. It’s usually just a letter. Sometimes I have to do a mediation. But nothing more than that. My hourly rate tends to be very good on pre-lit matters and we are making more of a push for those.

Litigation matters can be the losers in my opinion. I think the worst thing you can do is half ass a lit case and try to get out before summary judgment. There is almost never substantial money before summary judgment. And you do a ton of work to get there.

So these days we are aiming for 60-80k in fees per lot case with everything resolving in one way or another after summary judgment.

I’m not including trial in there. For trial we get a minimum of 300k based on our fee petitions. It’s almost the case that the amount we win at trial doesn’t matter because the comp generally comes from the fee petition.

Once I started focusing my practice, my firm became much more profitable.

10-13k prelit
60k-80k for surviving SJ
300k for trials
Dude.
You’re killing it.

I thought personal injury was lucrative.
Employment law is the move

I’d say a few things about that. 1) PI will always have a higher ceiling. Many more attorneys clear seven figures year in and out. The thing that’s tough with PI is competing for cases. It’s only getting harder with mega firms buying up all the billboards and clicks on Google.

2) the advantage of employment law is that there is relatively lower competition for cases. My overhead is lower so I don’t give much in referral fees or marketing costs.

3) I can handle far fewer cases than PI. I top out around 30-40 cases in my practice. Some PI lawyers can handle 100. So, there is more opportunity for volume and scale on the PI side.

4) We lose more often than PI. Defendants get summary judgment often. I have a pretty good success rate so far in SJ but I haven’t gotten enough decisions yet to form an opinion on whether that trend is going to hold. So there is that.

But overall you can make a very nice living as an employment attorney, especially in an employer friendly state like CA or NJ.

This is just anecdote. But I think we may do slightly better at the median but the high is very high in PI.

Come on man, tell us what a "very nice living" means, around 300k net, around 700k net?

I honestly don’t know. I know some that make a million per year. I know some that make like 150k per year. I don’t think anyone is really struggling but I’m sure they wouldn’t tell me lol.


True solo with low overhead shouldn’t have too much trouble making 250k a year in and out.

[OldSchoolLitigator]

$250k per year as a Plaintiff's attorney is doable in just about any specialty in just about any part of the country. Nothing to see here.

[Anonymous User]

$250k per year as a Plaintiff's attorney is doable in just about any specialty in just about any part of the country. Nothing to see here.

Assuming that’s true, that’s legitimately surprising. I’m currently a mid level selling my soul in biglaw. I figured most plaintiff side owners didn’t even make six figures. Obviously I knew some made serious bank.

But if I could *net* 250k+ helping folks out who got injured or screwed over by a boss, I’d quit my job ASAP.

[OldSchoolLitigator]

If you are a decent civil litigator and, most importantly, are willing to hustle, you can expect to net $250k. If you are happy to just be told what to do and collect a paycheck (like most associates in BigLaw), uh no.

- 20 years as a litigator