Firm barring summers from trying litigation work Forum

[Anonymous User]

Heard there is a v10 firm that is forcing summers to only do corporate work and barring them from trying lit -- and further insisting that should the summers want to do litigation after they graduate, they will lose offers. Which firm is this?

[Anonymous User]

likely the firm told its corporate summers that they’re hired for corporate and if they use their SA to retrade into lit then they lose the offer

[Anonymous User]

Which firm is this?

[The Lsat Airbender]

likely the firm told its corporate summers that they’re hired for corporate and if they use their SA to retrade into lit then they lose the offer

Yeah, this is kind of normal?

"You were recruited for transactional. If you insist on litigation, you're constructively declining our offer."

This is more or less firm/explicit, depending on how the market is doing, but it's pretty standard at the big NYC offices where litigation is always oversubscribed.

[Anonymous User]

My v10 told me that I could pick whatever I wanted at the end of the summer and get it.

[Anonymous User]

Which firms even recruit that firmly into practice areas? I had one of ~12 offers that was in any way tied to a practice group and that was for a firm's high-profile litigation practice.

[Anonymous User]

Which firms even recruit that firmly into practice areas? I had one of ~12 offers that was in any way tied to a practice group and that was for a firm's high-profile litigation practice.

I believe most firms at this point hire into either transactional or litigation. That's not specific practice groups, but it is a firm designation.

[Anonymous User]

Which firms even recruit that firmly into practice areas? I had one of ~12 offers that was in any way tied to a practice group and that was for a firm's high-profile litigation practice.

I believe most firms at this point hire into either transactional or litigation. That's not specific practice groups, but it is a firm designation.

Formally most do, but anecdotally most also allow group changes (at least between larger groups). Categorical bars on group changes definitely wasn't the norm last summer, at least among the firms I and my friends were at.

I also think that, like everything else in the law, there's more leeway given to people from particularly prestigious schools. If you're the one person in the summer class from YLS, you'll probably be given more flex than if you're one of thirty people from Wake Forest, for example. Similarly, if you can get other gold stars (e.g. a clerkship), firms seem more willing to let you move around.

[Anonymous User]

Which firms even recruit that firmly into practice areas? I had one of ~12 offers that was in any way tied to a practice group and that was for a firm's high-profile litigation practice.

I believe most firms at this point hire into either transactional or litigation. That's not specific practice groups, but it is a firm designation.

Formally most do, but anecdotally most also allow group changes (at least between larger groups). Categorical bars on group changes definitely wasn't the norm last summer, at least among the firms I and my friends were at.

I also think that, like everything else in the law, there's more leeway given to people from particularly prestigious schools. If you're the one person in the summer class from YLS, you'll probably be given more flex than if you're one of thirty people from Wake Forest, for example. Similarly, if you can get other gold stars (e.g. a clerkship), firms seem more willing to let you move around.

Sure, between Corp/Rx or vice-versa, or from general Corp to a specialty practice (Exec Comp, etc.).

But no firm has ever allowed associates to switch easily from Corp to Lit. The hiring standards are different and Lit is almost always oversubscribed. The closest example I can think of is Latham, where associates have a one-year ramp to decide their practice group, and even there I think litigation summers get hired implicitly on a different standard and understanding than corporate summers.

[Anonymous User]

Saying there's leeway to ppl with higher credentials is meaningless. Of course if someone can easily get another job and the firm wants to keep them, they'll be flexible. Doesn't change that it's pretty standard these days to hire specifically into one of the two main broader groups. It's not off market at all for a firm to refuse a request to change from transactional to litigation.

[jotarokujo]

Which firms even recruit that firmly into practice areas? I had one of ~12 offers that was in any way tied to a practice group and that was for a firm's high-profile litigation practice.

I believe most firms at this point hire into either transactional or litigation. That's not specific practice groups, but it is a firm designation.

Formally most do, but anecdotally most also allow group changes (at least between larger groups). Categorical bars on group changes definitely wasn't the norm last summer, at least among the firms I and my friends were at.

I also think that, like everything else in the law, there's more leeway given to people from particularly prestigious schools. If you're the one person in the summer class from YLS, you'll probably be given more flex than if you're one of thirty people from Wake Forest, for example. Similarly, if you can get other gold stars (e.g. a clerkship), firms seem more willing to let you move around.

Sure, between Corp/Rx or vice-versa, or from general Corp to a specialty practice (Exec Comp, etc.).

But no firm has ever allowed associates to switch easily from Corp to Lit. The hiring standards are different and Lit is almost always oversubscribed. The closest example I can think of is Latham, where associates have a one-year ramp to decide their practice group, and even there I think litigation summers get hired implicitly on a different standard and understanding than corporate summers.

i feel like it's common for firms to let summers try corp and lit, and allow them to choose between at the end.

[Anonymous User]

Which firms even recruit that firmly into practice areas? I had one of ~12 offers that was in any way tied to a practice group and that was for a firm's high-profile litigation practice.

I believe most firms at this point hire into either transactional or litigation. That's not specific practice groups, but it is a firm designation.

Formally most do, but anecdotally most also allow group changes (at least between larger groups). Categorical bars on group changes definitely wasn't the norm last summer, at least among the firms I and my friends were at.

I also think that, like everything else in the law, there's more leeway given to people from particularly prestigious schools. If you're the one person in the summer class from YLS, you'll probably be given more flex than if you're one of thirty people from Wake Forest, for example. Similarly, if you can get other gold stars (e.g. a clerkship), firms seem more willing to let you move around.

Sure, between Corp/Rx or vice-versa, or from general Corp to a specialty practice (Exec Comp, etc.).

But no firm has ever allowed associates to switch easily from Corp to Lit. The hiring standards are different and Lit is almost always oversubscribed. The closest example I can think of is Latham, where associates have a one-year ramp to decide their practice group, and even there I think litigation summers get hired implicitly on a different standard and understanding than corporate summers.

i feel like it's common for firms to let summers try corp and lit, and allow them to choose between at the end.

False. That's the exception, not the norm.

[Anonymous User]

i feel like it's common for firms to let summers try corp and lit, and allow them to choose between at the end.

False. That's the exception, not the norm.

Could you elaborate? I am the commenter who said exactly one of my offers was tied to a practice group.

I have not heard of that level of restriction from pretty much any of my classmates. Maybe geographic markets differ or something, but what you are describing is not at all the norm among people I know.

When does this sorting/triaging occur? Because it definitely doesn't happen through OCI at my school.

[Anonymous User]

Which firms even recruit that firmly into practice areas? I had one of ~12 offers that was in any way tied to a practice group and that was for a firm's high-profile litigation practice.

I believe most firms at this point hire into either transactional or litigation. That's not specific practice groups, but it is a firm designation.

Formally most do, but anecdotally most also allow group changes (at least between larger groups). Categorical bars on group changes definitely wasn't the norm last summer, at least among the firms I and my friends were at.

I also think that, like everything else in the law, there's more leeway given to people from particularly prestigious schools. If you're the one person in the summer class from YLS, you'll probably be given more flex than if you're one of thirty people from Wake Forest, for example. Similarly, if you can get other gold stars (e.g. a clerkship), firms seem more willing to let you move around.

Sure, between Corp/Rx or vice-versa, or from general Corp to a specialty practice (Exec Comp, etc.).

But no firm has ever allowed associates to switch easily from Corp to Lit. The hiring standards are different and Lit is almost always oversubscribed. The closest example I can think of is Latham, where associates have a one-year ramp to decide their practice group, and even there I think litigation summers get hired implicitly on a different standard and understanding than corporate summers.

K&E’s pretty accepting of it, or at least was last summer in NY. I knew a bunch of people who went corp -> lit or rx -> lit.

[Anonymous User]

Which firms even recruit that firmly into practice areas? I had one of ~12 offers that was in any way tied to a practice group and that was for a firm's high-profile litigation practice.

I believe most firms at this point hire into either transactional or litigation. That's not specific practice groups, but it is a firm designation.

Formally most do, but anecdotally most also allow group changes (at least between larger groups). Categorical bars on group changes definitely wasn't the norm last summer, at least among the firms I and my friends were at.

I also think that, like everything else in the law, there's more leeway given to people from particularly prestigious schools. If you're the one person in the summer class from YLS, you'll probably be given more flex than if you're one of thirty people from Wake Forest, for example. Similarly, if you can get other gold stars (e.g. a clerkship), firms seem more willing to let you move around.

Sure, between Corp/Rx or vice-versa, or from general Corp to a specialty practice (Exec Comp, etc.).

But no firm has ever allowed associates to switch easily from Corp to Lit. The hiring standards are different and Lit is almost always oversubscribed. The closest example I can think of is Latham, where associates have a one-year ramp to decide their practice group, and even there I think litigation summers get hired implicitly on a different standard and understanding than corporate summers.

K&E’s pretty accepting of it, or at least was last summer in NY. I knew a bunch of people who went corp -> lit or rx -> lit.

K&E Chicago allowed corp summers to take one or two lit projects from the assignment bank, but did not let anyone switch into lit. Several tried, but to no avail. If non-lit summers signed up for IP Lit projects, the partner would call them to boot them off the project.

So maybe there's a link between hiring standards/need & how chill the firm is with letting corp summers try/switch into lit?

[Anonymous User]

Which firms even recruit that firmly into practice areas? I had one of ~12 offers that was in any way tied to a practice group and that was for a firm's high-profile litigation practice.

I believe most firms at this point hire into either transactional or litigation. That's not specific practice groups, but it is a firm designation.

Formally most do, but anecdotally most also allow group changes (at least between larger groups). Categorical bars on group changes definitely wasn't the norm last summer, at least among the firms I and my friends were at.

I also think that, like everything else in the law, there's more leeway given to people from particularly prestigious schools. If you're the one person in the summer class from YLS, you'll probably be given more flex than if you're one of thirty people from Wake Forest, for example. Similarly, if you can get other gold stars (e.g. a clerkship), firms seem more willing to let you move around.

Sure, between Corp/Rx or vice-versa, or from general Corp to a specialty practice (Exec Comp, etc.).

But no firm has ever allowed associates to switch easily from Corp to Lit. The hiring standards are different and Lit is almost always oversubscribed. The closest example I can think of is Latham, where associates have a one-year ramp to decide their practice group, and even there I think litigation summers get hired implicitly on a different standard and understanding than corporate summers.

K&E’s pretty accepting of it, or at least was last summer in NY. I knew a bunch of people who went corp -> lit or rx -> lit.

K&E Chicago allowed corp summers to take one or two lit projects from the assignment bank, but did not let anyone switch into lit. Several tried, but to no avail. If non-lit summers signed up for IP Lit projects, the partner would call them to boot them off the project.

So maybe there's a link between hiring standards/need & how chill the firm is with letting corp summers try/switch into lit?

Obviously not Kirkland, but according to friend's anecdotes, S&C gives unrestricted offers and you opt into a group when you accept and can re-trade after accepting up until like Christmas-ish.

Have a few friends who did split summers, opted for corp and then swapped to lit as well as a friend who summered full send on FIG and accepted a lit offer out of nowhere. All of them are still in the lit group there 3 years later

[Anonymous User]

Fwiw as an anecdote when I was at DPW I recieved an open offer for both but when I got there it was pretty clear that I was going to be offered only litigation based on my mentor assignments, placement in office, etc... This was true in my friends in corporate who got "open" offers for both. So this is all to say that they give open offers but its pretty clear they have a vision of where they want you to go.

[CanadianWolf]

Heard there is a v10 firm that is forcing summers to only do corporate work and barring them from trying lit -- and further insisting that should the summers want to do litigation after they graduate, they will lose offers. Which firm is this?

I do not recall the firm name, but it was stated in an ATL article.

[Anonymous User]

Which firms even recruit that firmly into practice areas? I had one of ~12 offers that was in any way tied to a practice group and that was for a firm's high-profile litigation practice.

I believe most firms at this point hire into either transactional or litigation. That's not specific practice groups, but it is a firm designation.

Formally most do, but anecdotally most also allow group changes (at least between larger groups). Categorical bars on group changes definitely wasn't the norm last summer, at least among the firms I and my friends were at.

I also think that, like everything else in the law, there's more leeway given to people from particularly prestigious schools. If you're the one person in the summer class from YLS, you'll probably be given more flex than if you're one of thirty people from Wake Forest, for example. Similarly, if you can get other gold stars (e.g. a clerkship), firms seem more willing to let you move around.

Sure, between Corp/Rx or vice-versa, or from general Corp to a specialty practice (Exec Comp, etc.).

But no firm has ever allowed associates to switch easily from Corp to Lit. The hiring standards are different and Lit is almost always oversubscribed. The closest example I can think of is Latham, where associates have a one-year ramp to decide their practice group, and even there I think litigation summers get hired implicitly on a different standard and understanding than corporate summers.

K&E’s pretty accepting of it, or at least was last summer in NY. I knew a bunch of people who went corp -> lit or rx -> lit.

Really? Also at K&E NY and I know several corporate summers who tried to switch to lit last year and were told no. K&E does hire some summers with a formal split between two of the four practice areas, and not everyone knows who they are because they're still primarily assigned to one practice area. Those summers have an easier time choosing between the two because they were "promised" a choice.

If it's a true switch, I think it really depends on the summers that are trying to make it. Workhorses and summers with gold stars have it easier than those who treated it like summer camp or came with fewer credentials.

[Anonymous User]

Which firms even recruit that firmly into practice areas? I had one of ~12 offers that was in any way tied to a practice group and that was for a firm's high-profile litigation practice.

I believe most firms at this point hire into either transactional or litigation. That's not specific practice groups, but it is a firm designation.

Formally most do, but anecdotally most also allow group changes (at least between larger groups). Categorical bars on group changes definitely wasn't the norm last summer, at least among the firms I and my friends were at.

I also think that, like everything else in the law, there's more leeway given to people from particularly prestigious schools. If you're the one person in the summer class from YLS, you'll probably be given more flex than if you're one of thirty people from Wake Forest, for example. Similarly, if you can get other gold stars (e.g. a clerkship), firms seem more willing to let you move around.

Sure, between Corp/Rx or vice-versa, or from general Corp to a specialty practice (Exec Comp, etc.).

But no firm has ever allowed associates to switch easily from Corp to Lit. The hiring standards are different and Lit is almost always oversubscribed. The closest example I can think of is Latham, where associates have a one-year ramp to decide their practice group, and even there I think litigation summers get hired implicitly on a different standard and understanding than corporate summers.

K&E’s pretty accepting of it, or at least was last summer in NY. I knew a bunch of people who went corp -> lit or rx -> lit.

Really? Also at K&E NY and I know several corporate summers who tried to switch to lit last year and were told no. K&E does hire some summers with a formal split between two of the four practice areas, and not everyone knows who they are because they're still primarily assigned to one practice area. Those summers have an easier time choosing between the two because they were "promised" a choice.

If it's a true switch, I think it really depends on the summers that are trying to make it. Workhorses and summers with gold stars have it easier than those who treated it like summer camp or came with fewer credentials.

TBF the ones I knew of discussed it with the firm before (though w/o a formal split) and all had credentials that would have been fine for lit hiring, so YMMV.

[Anonymous User]

GDC lets first and second year associates try all different practice areas before committing to one by their third year.

[Anonymous User]

Obviously not Kirkland, but according to friend's anecdotes, S&C gives unrestricted offers and you opt into a group when you accept and can re-trade after accepting up until like Christmas-ish.

Have a few friends who did split summers, opted for corp and then swapped to lit as well as a friend who summered full send on FIG and accepted a lit offer out of nowhere. All of them are still in the lit group there 3 years later

Really? I know someone who got royally fucked by S&C when they tried to switch from lit to corporate after their summer. Just goes to show that this is not only firm/office, but also candidate specific.

[Anonymous User]

Obviously not Kirkland, but according to friend's anecdotes, S&C gives unrestricted offers and you opt into a group when you accept and can re-trade after accepting up until like Christmas-ish.

Have a few friends who did split summers, opted for corp and then swapped to lit as well as a friend who summered full send on FIG and accepted a lit offer out of nowhere. All of them are still in the lit group there 3 years later

Really? I know someone who got royally fucked by S&C when they tried to switch from lit to corporate after their summer. Just goes to show that this is not only firm/office, but also candidate specific.

I assume it's timing-dependent. You can re-trade until Christmas [insofar as things will still be pretty flexible by then], but if a mix of 3L recruiting/other people changing their minds/economic pressures change the math there might not be a spot for you. I definitely wouldn't count on being able to switch after the offer acceptance deadline, but it's still possible for a lot of people in a lot of years