Is big law not impossible at 43-44 Forum

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lawschoolsplit2023

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Is big law not impossible at 43-44

Post by lawschoolsplit2023 » Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:20 pm

I am planning on applying to law school fall 2025. With a 3.0 gpa I’m going to need a 178 to land a top law school but am confident I will.

If this works out I’ll be 44 when I graduate from a top school or top 14 if I am lucky. My goal is by 47-49, landing an associate general counsel position at an investment bank in nyc at Goldman or Merrill. I’ve known people that have done it after 3-5 years law experience, but in my case I have financial experience and earned series 63, 7, and 56 licenses that the others didn’t.

To eventually land a gig at an investment bank I first need law firm experience, but I don’t know if one only stands a chance if they have their 3-5 years at a big law firm or non. For my questions,

1). Is 44 too old for big law if you don’t intend to stay there to make partner, and if you have no kids or spouse or older adult related constraints and you have valuable skills and finance experience?
2) Has anyone personally known a 42-44 year old who landed big law?
3) lastly when I am 47-49 if all works out vying for an associate general counsel position, when younger ones would be 30s there wouldn’t be age discrimination there.

While these questions are premature or putting cart before horse, I just would appreciate insight that being 43-44 won’t nullify me at every big law firm?

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Re: Is big law not impossible at 43-44

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 20, 2024 7:56 pm

Idk about your other questions, but I can assure you that exactly no one in law will be impressed by Series 7, 56, or 63, when those candidates study for a week and bar candidates have to study for 2 months. It would be a different story if you were a CPA.

LittleRedCorvette

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Re: Is big law not impossible at 43-44

Post by LittleRedCorvette » Fri Mar 22, 2024 11:05 am

lawschoolsplit2023 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:20 pm
I am planning on applying to law school fall 2025. With a 3.0 gpa I’m going to need a 178 to land a top law school but am confident I will.

If this works out I’ll be 44 when I graduate from a top school or top 14 if I am lucky. My goal is by 47-49, landing an associate general counsel position at an investment bank in nyc at Goldman or Merrill. I’ve known people that have done it after 3-5 years law experience, but in my case I have financial experience and earned series 63, 7, and 56 licenses that the others didn’t.

To eventually land a gig at an investment bank I first need law firm experience, but I don’t know if one only stands a chance if they have their 3-5 years at a big law firm or non. For my questions,

1). Is 44 too old for big law if you don’t intend to stay there to make partner, and if you have no kids or spouse or older adult related constraints and you have valuable skills and finance experience?
2) Has anyone personally known a 42-44 year old who landed big law?
3) lastly when I am 47-49 if all works out vying for an associate general counsel position, when younger ones would be 30s there wouldn’t be age discrimination there.

While these questions are premature or putting cart before horse, I just would appreciate insight that being 43-44 won’t nullify me at every big law firm?
Get the 178 and come back.

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Re: Is big law not impossible at 43-44

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 22, 2024 11:25 am

PSA for everyone: it's absolutely useless to ask people for advice where the premise of the question takes for granted that you'll get a specific LSAT score (that always happens to be the 99.9th percentile or something like that) that you haven't actually gotten yet. This is true even if you've taken a bajillion practice tests and gotten a perfect score on all of them. Hope this helps!

Wanderingdrock

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Re: Is big law not impossible at 43-44

Post by Wanderingdrock » Fri Mar 22, 2024 11:57 pm

Honestly not sure if this is a troll, because this is so unrealistically specific.

But I do know people who went to top law schools and landed biglaw at that age. A couple were IP folks coming from successful tech or engineering backgrounds, looking for a change of pace. The others were ex-military.

Exactly one had a goal of ending up at a specific company, and that was because his prior career had been there and he basically had a guarantee to return.

Don't invest three years of time, tuition, and opportunity cost in law school without being open to a variety of paths and understanding that your chance of ending up as a lawyer at one of two specific companies within 5 years of graduation is extremely low. It's fine to have goals that are uniquely important to you ("I'm bored with where I am, but I've done the math and I can invest in starting a new career, even at this point in my life") but they should be realistic. OP's goals are not realistic. (Possible =/= realistic.)

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lawschoolsplit2023

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Re: Is big law not impossible at 43-44

Post by lawschoolsplit2023 » Sat Mar 23, 2024 10:25 am

Thanks for the replies - I really appreciate them. Thanks all for weighing in. I can assure also I’m not a troll, just merely someone with sky high goals and a lot of inquiries about the legal profession I couldn’t otherwise find elsewhere. There is only limited information online.

As I said, these replies were helpful and if anything, enabled me to not look to put all eggs in one basket and not put too much pressure on myself to be big law or bust.

However, as it’s good to still have certain goals, and mine is to become an attorney at Goldman Sachs Merrill or an investment bank within 5 years of graduating law school (and have heard of 3 people that did so after 3 years ), even stumbled upon some random profiles on LinkedIn of someone that became senior counsel at Goldman after working 4 years at a law firm and ls graduation:

Because an esteemed investment bank wants competitive applicants, but don’t specify the tier of law firm in job postings, other than ‘reputable’ law firm, could a top 14 law graduate with excellent gpa and ranking that didn’t work at a big law firm, but a tier 2 perhaps or a government or federal gig still be competitive for it based on their law school ranking, class ranking and performance at the tier 2 or government gig?

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Re: Is big law not impossible at 43-44

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 23, 2024 10:53 am

lawschoolsplit2023 wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2024 10:25 am
Because an esteemed investment bank wants competitive applicants, but don’t specify the tier of law firm in job postings, other than ‘reputable’ law firm, could a top 14 law graduate with excellent gpa and ranking that didn’t work at a big law firm, but a tier 2 perhaps or a government or federal gig still be competitive for it based on their law school ranking, class ranking and performance at the tier 2 or government gig?
A lot of this is going to depend what your experience is, not just the name on the resume. What kind of work does counsel at an investment bank do, and what jobs can you get out of law school that will give you experience that's relevant to that role? If you go the Goldman legal careers page, there are lots of different possible legal roles relying on different kinds of experience.

What kind of work do you actually want to do? That is, why do you want to work at an investment bank (other than the fact that it's "esteemed"? How do you envision actually spending your day?

dyemond

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Re: Is big law not impossible at 43-44

Post by dyemond » Sun Mar 24, 2024 12:09 pm

lawschoolsplit2023 wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2024 10:25 am
Thanks for the replies - I really appreciate them. Thanks all for weighing in. I can assure also I’m not a troll, just merely someone with sky high goals and a lot of inquiries about the legal profession I couldn’t otherwise find elsewhere. There is only limited information online.

As I said, these replies were helpful and if anything, enabled me to not look to put all eggs in one basket and not put too much pressure on myself to be big law or bust.

However, as it’s good to still have certain goals, and mine is to become an attorney at Goldman Sachs Merrill or an investment bank within 5 years of graduating law school (and have heard of 3 people that did so after 3 years ), even stumbled upon some random profiles on LinkedIn of someone that became senior counsel at Goldman after working 4 years at a law firm and ls graduation:

Because an esteemed investment bank wants competitive applicants, but don’t specify the tier of law firm in job postings, other than ‘reputable’ law firm, could a top 14 law graduate with excellent gpa and ranking that didn’t work at a big law firm, but a tier 2 perhaps or a government or federal gig still be competitive for it based on their law school ranking, class ranking and performance at the tier 2 or government gig?
why do you want to be an agc at IB so badly

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Re: Is big law not impossible at 43-44

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Mar 24, 2024 2:39 pm

It's not impossible, but come back when you have a LSAT score + good 1L grades.

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Moneytrees

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Re: Is big law not impossible at 43-44

Post by Moneytrees » Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:49 pm

Odd to view an exit to AGC at Goldman or Merrill as some sort of high achievement. Those banks largely rely on outside counsel for dealmaking, so if you are highly ambitious you wouldn't want to be on their internal legal teams.

Odd post all around ngl

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nealric

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Re: Is big law not impossible at 43-44

Post by nealric » Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:23 pm

Moneytrees wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:49 pm
Odd to view an exit to AGC at Goldman or Merrill as some sort of high achievement. Those banks largely rely on outside counsel for dealmaking, so if you are highly ambitious you wouldn't want to be on their internal legal teams.

Odd post all around ngl
Good in-house jobs are sought after jobs because they pay reasonably well but do not involve the all-consuming workload of being outside counsel. Just because it's not the most "prestigious" outcome doesn't mean it's not an ambitious outcome. After a few years in Biglaw, most people are totally over the idea of being a "real lawyer" and just want something that pays the bills and lets them live their life.

Moneytrees

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Re: Is big law not impossible at 43-44

Post by Moneytrees » Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:44 pm

nealric wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:23 pm
Moneytrees wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:49 pm
Odd to view an exit to AGC at Goldman or Merrill as some sort of high achievement. Those banks largely rely on outside counsel for dealmaking, so if you are highly ambitious you wouldn't want to be on their internal legal teams.

Odd post all around ngl
Good in-house jobs are sought after jobs because they pay reasonably well but do not involve the all-consuming workload of being outside counsel. Just because it's not the most "prestigious" outcome doesn't mean it's not an ambitious outcome. After a few years in Biglaw, most people are totally over the idea of being a "real lawyer" and just want something that pays the bills and lets them live their life.
Totally agree, my point is that AGC counsel jobs at gigantic bulge bracket banks are likely going to be in risk-management and compliance, which doesn't seem like the type of prestigious job the original poster is seeking.

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nealric

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Re: Is big law not impossible at 43-44

Post by nealric » Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:31 am

Moneytrees wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:44 pm
nealric wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:23 pm
Moneytrees wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:49 pm
Odd to view an exit to AGC at Goldman or Merrill as some sort of high achievement. Those banks largely rely on outside counsel for dealmaking, so if you are highly ambitious you wouldn't want to be on their internal legal teams.

Odd post all around ngl
Good in-house jobs are sought after jobs because they pay reasonably well but do not involve the all-consuming workload of being outside counsel. Just because it's not the most "prestigious" outcome doesn't mean it's not an ambitious outcome. After a few years in Biglaw, most people are totally over the idea of being a "real lawyer" and just want something that pays the bills and lets them live their life.
Totally agree, my point is that AGC counsel jobs at gigantic bulge bracket banks are likely going to be in risk-management and compliance, which doesn't seem like the type of prestigious job the original poster is seeking.
A lot of their jobs are, but that's hardly the only jobs in those banks. A good stint at a good biglaw firm can get you out of settling the compliance jobs (many of which are J.D. advantage type jobs rather than true legal jobs).

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