Bad 2L Grades Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm a junior at a firm that wants to know how their transcript would be viewed when lateralling or going in-house. My understanding is that grades are still important as a junior and always considered until you're an EP, but correct me if I'm wrong.

I had real bad 2L grades (bottom 10% to bottom 25%, and unfortunately including one in my practice area) that absolutely tanked my GPA (just below median before) because of bad personal circumstances. I won't give you my sob story, but the grades came from circumstances that are no longer repeatable. Luckily, I got an OCI offer before these grades came in and nobody at my firm has ever mentioned them. Although I think, under our current standards, my 2L grades would have kept me from getting an interview under normal circumstances.

My 3L grades were substantially better (ranging from top half to top 10%), but I did game the higher median classes quite hard (although, even with the higher medians, my grades were in that top half to top 10%).

My overall class rank is difficult to measure, because my school refuses to rank students. I didn't get honors, which I believe automatically puts me at least below the top quarter. If I was forced to place myself somewhere, I'd guess I'm anywhere in 65th to 45th percentile range, but thst is a rough guess. I would give more specifics as to GPA, but it would out the school if I did. This is all at a T6. Our grading system is hard to make sense of.

Regardless, the bad 2L grades are going to be a blemish on the transcript that immediately draws the eye even to someone unfamiliar with the grading system. I feel I can confidently explain them in an interview, but they are still quite bad.

How much is this going to haunt me if I ever decided to lateral and/or seek in house work? I suspect in house will care less, if they can even divine our grading system, but law firms will have some understanding of the magnitude of how bad the grades are. I received 2 grades that I think may have been the worst in the class.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a junior at a firm that wants to know how their transcript would be viewed when lateralling or going in-house. My understanding is that grades are still important as a junior and always considered until you're an EP, but correct me if I'm wrong.

I had real bad 2L grades (bottom 10% to bottom 25%, and unfortunately including one in my practice area) that absolutely tanked my GPA (just below median before) because of bad personal circumstances. I won't give you my sob story, but the grades came from circumstances that are no longer repeatable. Luckily, I got an OCI offer before these grades came in and nobody at my firm has ever mentioned them. Although I think, under our current standards, my 2L grades would have kept me from getting an interview under normal circumstances.

My 3L grades were substantially better (ranging from top half to top 10%), but I did game the higher median classes quite hard (although, even with the higher medians, my grades were in that top half to top 10%).

My overall class rank is difficult to measure, because my school refuses to rank students. I didn't get honors, which I believe automatically puts me at least below the top quarter. If I was forced to place myself somewhere, I'd guess I'm anywhere in 65th to 45th percentile range, but thst is a rough guess. I would give more specifics as to GPA, but it would out the school if I did. This is all at a T6. Our grading system is hard to make sense of.

Regardless, the bad 2L grades are going to be a blemish on the transcript that immediately draws the eye even to someone unfamiliar with the grading system. I feel I can confidently explain them in an interview, but they are still quite bad.

How much is this going to haunt me if I ever decided to lateral and/or seek in house work? I suspect in house will care less, if they can even divine our grading system, but law firms will have some understanding of the magnitude of how bad the grades are. I received 2 grades that I think may have been the worst in the class.

What kind of school did you go to? For example, matters less if this is Harvard or Yale. Matters more if it's a lower ranked school.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a junior at a firm that wants to know how their transcript would be viewed when lateralling or going in-house. My understanding is that grades are still important as a junior and always considered until you're an EP, but correct me if I'm wrong.

I had real bad 2L grades (bottom 10% to bottom 25%, and unfortunately including one in my practice area) that absolutely tanked my GPA (just below median before) because of bad personal circumstances. I won't give you my sob story, but the grades came from circumstances that are no longer repeatable. Luckily, I got an OCI offer before these grades came in and nobody at my firm has ever mentioned them. Although I think, under our current standards, my 2L grades would have kept me from getting an interview under normal circumstances.

My 3L grades were substantially better (ranging from top half to top 10%), but I did game the higher median classes quite hard (although, even with the higher medians, my grades were in that top half to top 10%).

My overall class rank is difficult to measure, because my school refuses to rank students. I didn't get honors, which I believe automatically puts me at least below the top quarter. If I was forced to place myself somewhere, I'd guess I'm anywhere in 65th to 45th percentile range, but thst is a rough guess. I would give more specifics as to GPA, but it would out the school if I did. This is all at a T6. Our grading system is hard to make sense of.

Regardless, the bad 2L grades are going to be a blemish on the transcript that immediately draws the eye even to someone unfamiliar with the grading system. I feel I can confidently explain them in an interview, but they are still quite bad.

How much is this going to haunt me if I ever decided to lateral and/or seek in house work? I suspect in house will care less, if they can even divine our grading system, but law firms will have some understanding of the magnitude of how bad the grades are. I received 2 grades that I think may have been the worst in the class.

What kind of school did you go to? For example, matters less if this is Harvard or Yale. Matters more if it's a lower ranked school.

It's a T6, closer to Harvard/Yale.

[Dcc617]

There's no way grades matter after the first year or two of work experience, right? It would be so dumb if they did.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a junior at a firm that wants to know how their transcript would be viewed when lateralling or going in-house. My understanding is that grades are still important as a junior and always considered until you're an EP, but correct me if I'm wrong.

I had real bad 2L grades (bottom 10% to bottom 25%, and unfortunately including one in my practice area) that absolutely tanked my GPA (just below median before) because of bad personal circumstances. I won't give you my sob story, but the grades came from circumstances that are no longer repeatable. Luckily, I got an OCI offer before these grades came in and nobody at my firm has ever mentioned them. Although I think, under our current standards, my 2L grades would have kept me from getting an interview under normal circumstances.

My 3L grades were substantially better (ranging from top half to top 10%), but I did game the higher median classes quite hard (although, even with the higher medians, my grades were in that top half to top 10%).

My overall class rank is difficult to measure, because my school refuses to rank students. I didn't get honors, which I believe automatically puts me at least below the top quarter. If I was forced to place myself somewhere, I'd guess I'm anywhere in 65th to 45th percentile range, but thst is a rough guess. I would give more specifics as to GPA, but it would out the school if I did. This is all at a T6. Our grading system is hard to make sense of.

Regardless, the bad 2L grades are going to be a blemish on the transcript that immediately draws the eye even to someone unfamiliar with the grading system. I feel I can confidently explain them in an interview, but they are still quite bad.

How much is this going to haunt me if I ever decided to lateral and/or seek in house work? I suspect in house will care less, if they can even divine our grading system, but law firms will have some understanding of the magnitude of how bad the grades are. I received 2 grades that I think may have been the worst in the class.

What kind of school did you go to? For example, matters less if this is Harvard or Yale. Matters more if it's a lower ranked school.

It's a T6, closer to Harvard/Yale.

It won't matter unless the firms are so selective that they have the the luxury to nitpick about relatively inconsequential things, like 2L grades. Only a few firms come to mind where this could conceivably be the make or break, so I wouldn't worry.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, there may be a few particularly elite firms that can and will use 2L grades to screen you out, but the vast majority of employers will not care about one bad year - they will care about your experience as a practicing attorney. The more senior you get, the more I would be shocked if they even look at your transcript. And by senior, I don't mean EP - I just mean having been a lawyer long enough to be able to use your experience as a guide.

Law school grades for hiring a lateral/in-house attorney are a little bit like UGPA/LSAT for hiring at OCI - they were a proxy for your potential future success that become much less important once you have actual demonstrated success. UGPA/LSAT can predict law school grades, but at OCI, you have actual law school grades, so most employers don't care about the earlier stats. Law school grades can predict ability to be a good lawyer, but once you've worked as a lawyer, you can actually show your ability as a lawyer, so law school grades don't really matter.

This isn't universally true, in that incredibly elite, selective employers can use law school grades to screen people out, so sure, maybe you will have less luck at that level. But this is a very very small proportion of employers - not enough to make or break a career.

Also, the weirdness of your grading scale (which suggests to me the school) gives someone hiring you plausible deniability - your school doesn't rank and if it's the one I assume, they don't even use letter grades, so even if your 2L grades are noticeably lower, they don't have to see a grade in the C/D range.

It sounds like your overall GPA/rank (to the extent they can even be discerned) land comfortably in the mushy median. If you do good work at your current firm and develop good relationships with senior people who can speak to your abilities in future, one year of bad grades at an extremely elite school isn't going to materially alter your career trajectory.

So the short version: don't worry about grades, worry about excelling in your work going forward; that will have a much bigger impact on your career.

[Moneytrees]

There's no way grades matter after the first year or two of work experience, right? It would be so dumb if they did.

They still do unfortunately. I'm a sixth year at a V50 (NYC) and while I've gotten interviews at V10s, I was explicitly told by a couple firms in the V5 that my law school grades didn't meet their criteria.

[Anonymous User]

It seems like the school we're talking about is Chicago. No one understands Chicago grades or would even be able to tell bad grades from average ones except alums of the school, so keep that in mind. For this reason, if you're in a geographic area outside of Chicago (where a fewer percentage of people who are hiring you would be U of C alums), then your bad 2L grades are significantly less likely to be an issue.

[Anonymous User]

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