Stay working in Big 4 Comp & Benefits or do Tax LLM NYU? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I've been working in the Big 4 doing Exec Comp & Benefits for a couple of months. I eventually would like to go to a midsize law firm or biglaw in maybe a year. Some people say it is very difficult to transition to a law firm while others say it is easy.

If it will be very difficult to go to a law firm, should i go do an NYU tax LLM? I think I will have no problem getting accepted because I have T14 above median credentials. My only concern is that I can very well end up back at the big 4. I was looking at their employment stats and 45% end up working at the big 4. So it seems like a huge risk. Thoughts?

[hangtime813]

It's another shot at the apple but i'd probably only do it if i had a substantial scholarship if i were in your shoes.

Any reason why you didnt do biglaw right out of law school? Looks like you have solid credentials for it.

[Anonymous User]

It's another shot at the apple but i'd probably only do it if i had a substantial scholarship if i were in your shoes.

Any reason why you didnt do biglaw right out of law school? Looks like you have solid credentials for it.

I was extremely ill when OCI came around at my school and also never really cared about getting biglaw. My interest grew much stronger after 3L year and after passing the bar.

[2013]

Do not get your LLM. Your credentials are good enough that you can lateral to a biglaw firm’s exec comp team without it. Market is tougher now than it was a few years ago, but exec comp will always be easier to break into because 1) no one wants to really do it and 2) it’s a lot of M&A support and they need bodies.

[CanadianWolf]

Do not get your LLM. Your credentials are good enough that you can lateral to a biglaw firm’s exec comp team without it. Market is tougher now than it was a few years ago, but exec comp will always be easier to break into because 1) no one wants to really do it and 2) it’s a lot of M&A support and they need bodies.

Your advice is worded strongly. Do you have direct knowledge of anyone who has made such a move ?

Thank you in advance for your response !

[2013]

Do not get your LLM. Your credentials are good enough that you can lateral to a biglaw firm’s exec comp team without it. Market is tougher now than it was a few years ago, but exec comp will always be easier to break into because 1) no one wants to really do it and 2) it’s a lot of M&A support and they need bodies.

Your advice is worded strongly. Do you have direct knowledge of anyone who has made such a move ?

Thank you in advance for your response !

I don’t know many big4 exec comp folks who moved to biglaw but I know of at least 10 international/M&A people who did during 2021-2022.

[CanadianWolf]

Do not get your LLM. Your credentials are good enough that you can lateral to a biglaw firm’s exec comp team without it. Market is tougher now than it was a few years ago, but exec comp will always be easier to break into because 1) no one wants to really do it and 2) it’s a lot of M&A support and they need bodies.

Your advice is worded strongly. Do you have direct knowledge of anyone who has made such a move ?

Thank you in advance for your response !

I don’t know many big4 exec comp folks who moved to biglaw but I know of at least 10 international/M&A people who did during 2021-2022.

Of the 10 Big 4 folks in International Tax or M&A, how many had earned an LLM ? Also, were any from WNTOs ?

Thank you in advance for any response!

[CanadianWolf]

I've been working in the Big 4 doing Exec Comp & Benefits for a couple of months. I eventually would like to go to a midsize law firm or biglaw in maybe a year. Some people say it is very difficult to transition to a law firm while others say it is easy.

If it will be very difficult to go to a law firm, should i go do an NYU tax LLM? I think I will have no problem getting accepted because I have T14 above median credentials. My only concern is that I can very well end up back at the big 4. I was looking at their employment stats and 45% end up working at the big 4. So it seems like a huge risk. Thoughts?

I cannot address your specialty area of executive compensation & benefits, but it is not easy to move from Big 4 to biglaw due to biglaw's desire for generalists and Big 4's business model of specialization. Nevertheless, executive compensation is a specialty area in both biglaw & Big 4 accounting/consulting firms.

Because of the significant difference in compensation between Big 4 and biglaw, consider applying to both NYU's tax llm program and to multiple law firms to generate concrete options.

If you do not receive any offers from law firms for your specialty area, then earning an NYU tax llm degree may be needed to get a second chance at biglaw tax.

[2013]

Do not get your LLM. Your credentials are good enough that you can lateral to a biglaw firm’s exec comp team without it. Market is tougher now than it was a few years ago, but exec comp will always be easier to break into because 1) no one wants to really do it and 2) it’s a lot of M&A support and they need bodies.

Your advice is worded strongly. Do you have direct knowledge of anyone who has made such a move ?

Thank you in advance for your response !

I don’t know many big4 exec comp folks who moved to biglaw but I know of at least 10 international/M&A people who did during 2021-2022.

Of the 10 Big 4 folks in International Tax or M&A, how many had earned an LLM ? Also, were any from WNTOs ?

Thank you in advance for any response!

I think almost all but two were NYU LLMs. None were WNTOs.

[dyemond]

Do not get your LLM. Your credentials are good enough that you can lateral to a biglaw firm’s exec comp team without it. Market is tougher now than it was a few years ago, but exec comp will always be easier to break into because 1) no one wants to really do it and 2) it’s a lot of M&A support and they need bodies.

Your advice is worded strongly. Do you have direct knowledge of anyone who has made such a move ?

Thank you in advance for your response !

I don’t know many big4 exec comp folks who moved to biglaw but I know of at least 10 international/M&A people who did during 2021-2022.

People need to internalize that the 2021-2022 market was probably the best market in 15 years and datapoints from that market are essentially worthless. V10s were hiring top 1/3 and top 1/4 from T100s, it was insane.

[Anonymous User]

Do not get your LLM. Your credentials are good enough that you can lateral to a biglaw firm’s exec comp team without it. Market is tougher now than it was a few years ago, but exec comp will always be easier to break into because 1) no one wants to really do it and 2) it’s a lot of M&A support and they need bodies.

Your advice is worded strongly. Do you have direct knowledge of anyone who has made such a move ?

Thank you in advance for your response !

I don’t know many big4 exec comp folks who moved to biglaw but I know of at least 10 international/M&A people who did during 2021-2022.

People need to internalize that the 2021-2022 market was probably the best market in 15 years and datapoints from that market are essentially worthless. V10s were hiring top 1/3 and top 1/4 from T100s, it was insane.

I looked at some threads of people making the switch before 2020 because thats before that crazy time haha.

[Anonymous User]

cannot

Do you know if getting a tax LLM at NYU at least gets you into the WNT group at the big 4? I think that would be more substantive experience. I'm really scared that I go get an LLM and end back at the same spot. Im only a first year so if I want to get a tax LLM I should probably do it this fall because I don't want to take a gap year. Or work here till next year, see if I can dip as a 2nd year to biglaw or WNT and if I cant then start the LLM program in Fall 2025 and take the risk? Thoughts about this plan? Better to apply and start LLM this fall (2024) or wait since i'm only a 1st year?

[CanadianWolf]

cannot

Do you know if getting a tax LLM at NYU at least gets you into the WNT group at the big 4? I think that would be more substantive experience. I'm really scared that I go get an LLM and end back at the same spot. Im only a first year so if I want to get a tax LLM I should probably do it this fall because I don't want to take a gap year. Or work here till next year, see if I can dip as a 2nd year to biglaw or WNT and if I cant then start the LLM program in Fall 2025 and take the risk? Thoughts about this plan? Better to apply and start LLM this fall (2024) or wait since i'm only a 1st year?

It is unclear as to whether or not an NYU LLM degree in Taxation would be a near-certain entry into a Big 4 WNT office as the interview process requires both experienced based know-how/knowledge and academic knowledge, but it would certainly increase one's chances. ( However, I know of at least one prominent non-Big 4 accounting firm that requires 8 or more years of experience in a particular practice area in order to be given consideration for a position.)

Big 4 WNT hiring practices, as well as needs, vary and, therefore, are not uniform.

Recent NYU tax llm grads are hired by Big 4 WNT offices, but I am not sure as to how much one's prior work experience factors into the process--and this will vary by economic climate. In a high-demand, fast-moving market all will be overwhelmed with work so recruiting will focus on experienced hires.

An NYU tax llm degree should get you more money than one with light experience and no prestigious tax llm degree.

NYU tax llm program participates in a hiring fair each year (TIP--tax interview program) with Georgetown tax llm grads. If you ask NYU's tax llm program admissions folks for a list of employer participants, you should receive better info. than I can offer.( At TIP, all tax llm candidates are pre-screened by employers before being granted an interview.)

[CanadianWolf]

FWIW: Four other tax llm programs participate in TARE--tax attorney recruiting event. I believe that interviews are granted based on a bidding system rather than on pre-screening of applicant resumes.

The four tax llm programs which participate in TARE are Northwestern, Boston University, University of Florida, and University of California--Irvine.

[Anonymous User]

FWIW: Four other tax llm programs participate in TARE--tax attorney recruiting event. I believe that interviews are granted based on a bidding system rather than on pre-screening of applicant resumes.

The four tax llm programs which participate in TARE are Northwestern, Boston University, University of Florida, and University of California--Irvine.

You know anything about going from big 4 to IRS? How would I make that move?

[CanadianWolf]

OP: Read about NYU tax llm recruiting on another site. Executive Comp can be a very active recruiting area. Locations included NYC, Boston, & Silicon Valley. Based on what I read, you should not have any problem getting a law firm position in Executive Compensation from NYU's tax llm program since you have current work experience in this specialty area.

[CanadianWolf]

FWIW: Four other tax llm programs participate in TARE--tax attorney recruiting event. I believe that interviews are granted based on a bidding system rather than on pre-screening of applicant resumes.

The four tax llm programs which participate in TARE are Northwestern, Boston University, University of Florida, and University of California--Irvine.

You know anything about going from big 4 to IRS? How would I make that move?

Go to usajobs.gov website.

Some experienced folks have been trying for years to get with the IRS in DC. Just need to find a match on usajobs.gov. Hiring process takes several months for most.

IRS field offices are easier than DC especially if experienced in tax controversy & litigation. Again, check usajobs.gov.

[Anonymous User]

OP: Read about NYU tax llm recruiting on another site. Executive Comp can be a very active recruiting area. Locations included NYC, Boston, & Silicon Valley. Based on what I read, you should not have any problem getting a law firm position in Executive Compensation from NYU's tax llm program since you have current work experience in this specialty area.

Will do thanks. I live in the west coast so i'd hope to come back here after NYU's LLM. I think I will give it 1 year to see if the economy gets better and if I can make the switch. That way I will have more experience in the field since i'm just a first year. The economy has been so shit that many of my tasks have been random stuff and not dealing with the IRC. If i cannot get into a firm by summer of next year then I will just attend the LLM program.

[Anonymous User]

Newcomer non-traditional lawyer reviving this thread with some related questions. I am an older attorney who was forced out of the Federal government. My area of practice can best be described as typical Federal agency general administrative law, having nothing to do with tax. Job prospects in the private sector are especially bad for someone like me who wants to stay in or near the DC area. For one thing, my substantive skills aren't easily translatable to private sector legal jobs.

With that in mind, I decided to switch to tax law despite the fact that I am a late career attorney. I can't just retire because I have two teenagers. My ray of hope is that I got into Georgetown's LLM program. What's intriguing about their program is the course offerings they have in the ERISA/ExecComp area, which is less pure tax and more akin to my past experience. Having said that, I don't think I want to proverbially put so many eggs in this basket by concurrently seeking the Employee Benefits Certificate, because it will take away time for other core tax law courses I think I will need.

For a variety of reasons, my first choice as to jobs after attaining my LLM is to land with one of the Big 4. Second choice would be a small boutique mid-law tax firm. I just don't see myself landing back with BigLaw right after my LLM, mainly due to my age and because I flamed out of BigLaw at the beginning of my career.

So here are my questions:
1. How does one get an ERISA-related job at the Big4? How prevalent are these types of jobs?
2. Are Big4 ERISA jobs considered tax jobs or consulting jobs?
3. Assuming that the ERISA/ExecComp path to Big4 is viable, would it be sufficient for me to take Georgetown's survey course that combines the retirement benefits, health/welfare benefits, and executive compensation aspects, or would it make sense to take two or all three area-specific courses?
4. If ERISA is not viable, what is the best core tax practice area(s) I should focus on during my studies? My guess is SALT because the consensus here seems to be that it's not an area something young attorneys should aspire to. But if someone older like me actually indicates an interest in SALT, maybe that would maximize my chances of getting in through the door.

[nealric]

Newcomer non-traditional lawyer reviving this thread with some related questions. I am an older attorney who was forced out of the Federal government. My area of practice can best be described as typical Federal agency general administrative law, having nothing to do with tax. Job prospects in the private sector are especially bad for someone like me who wants to stay in or near the DC area. For one thing, my substantive skills aren't easily translatable to private sector legal jobs.

With that in mind, I decided to switch to tax law despite the fact that I am a late career attorney. I can't just retire because I have two teenagers. My ray of hope is that I got into Georgetown's LLM program. What's intriguing about their program is the course offerings they have in the ERISA/ExecComp area, which is less pure tax and more akin to my past experience. Having said that, I don't think I want to proverbially put so many eggs in this basket by concurrently seeking the Employee Benefits Certificate, because it will take away time for other core tax law courses I think I will need.

For a variety of reasons, my first choice as to jobs after attaining my LLM is to land with one of the Big 4. Second choice would be a small boutique mid-law tax firm. I just don't see myself landing back with BigLaw right after my LLM, mainly due to my age and because I flamed out of BigLaw at the beginning of my career.

So here are my questions:
1. How does one get an ERISA-related job at the Big4? How prevalent are these types of jobs?
2. Are Big4 ERISA jobs considered tax jobs or consulting jobs?
3. Assuming that the ERISA/ExecComp path to Big4 is viable, would it be sufficient for me to take Georgetown's survey course that combines the retirement benefits, health/welfare benefits, and executive compensation aspects, or would it make sense to take two or all three area-specific courses?
4. If ERISA is not viable, what is the best core tax practice area(s) I should focus on during my studies? My guess is SALT because the consensus here seems to be that it's not an area something young attorneys should aspire to. But if someone older like me actually indicates an interest in SALT, maybe that would maximize my chances of getting in through the door.

A few thoughts:

1) I've not interacted with ERISA/benefits groups at the Big4, but keep in mind that the Big4 technically can't practice law. This means there's quite a bit of ERISA work they can't do (such as drafting or advising on plan documents). I imagine most of their work is more quantitative in nature, though Washington National Tax would have folks that specialize in answering technical issues related to benefits for the local offices.

2) I don't know if there's a clear distinction here. But I would whatever they are, they are not legal jobs at their core.

3) Speaking as a tax (not benefits) person, I think I would go for your employee benefits certificate and do more than the survey course. Courses like corporate and international tax which are core/foundational for general tax practitioners are pretty tangential to a benefits/exec comp practice. You need to understand basic concepts of income taxation (courses like tax accounting that focus on timing of income), but those should already be in the core curriculum to graduate.

4) SALT is a potential avenue if you don't want to do benefits. It's a bit easier to break into and the rules are bit easier to master. It's more "squishy" than federal income tax, with more constitutional issues and soft doctrines compared to detailed code/regs like federal income tax.

Personally, I think a benefits specialty firm (firms like the Groom Law Group) would be a better fit for someone in your profile than Big4. Big4 is like Biglaw in that they want to churn and burn bright eyed fresh graduates. They are used to 22 year old fresh college grads rather than second career people and their structure/practices reflect that. Your legal experience will be much more directly translatable at a law firm because they can put you to work right away with things like document drafting.