How to handle questions pay expectation? Forum

[futuresuccessstory]

I am a mid level corporate associate looking to go in house. I’m at a V10 firm.

Jobs have been pushing me to give pay range I will accept even when I try to not put out a number first and wait to see what they offer or ask a range they heavily push for a hard number from me. The pay being offered seems pretty low like 170 to 200. Is this normal?

I want to leave big law but at that pay rate. I’m not sure. I have 100k in student debt left.

I guess it just rubs me the wrong way because these are big name companies and while the hours will certainly be better than big law it does seem like it will require a significant amount of work.

I want to look for smaller companies or not as well known companies with smaller legal teams but I just don’t know any so I don’t know where to look. Would love to hear suggestions.

[nealric]

Corporate HR departments can be annoying, but would try to give them as little to go by as possible even if they push. I've used something to the effect of "I believe I have a good sense of the market and believe I can work within the amount you have budgeted for the position." If they continue to push, I will say "I will evaluate any compensation package holistically." If it's a first round interview (you haven't met the team yet), you can mention that the compensation you would be happy with may depend on expectations and duties, which you would need to meet the team to assess.

When evaluating pay packages, keep in mind that the base pay is only part of it. Target bonus may be higher than most biglaw pay packages, and you may get stock on top. You may also get things like 401k matching and a pension, and may have a much better health plan. It's not unheard of for corporate $200k base pay to be equivalent to $350k in biglaw salary. The first offer is usually just that- unlike biglaw you can negotiate up.

Finally, keep in mind that you are rarely going to be interacting with HR once you come on board (unless you are L&E counsel). So don't take their behavior as necessarily indicative of corporate life.

[futuresuccessstory]

Thanks! This was really helpful, any insight on where I should be looking for in house positions? I haven’t been on the job hunt since OCI. Recruiter calls are for other firms.

I really don’t want to go to the firm’s client because they seem to work the same amount of hours as us at least from the emails we receive.

[Anonymous User]

I recently landed an in-house role. When HR asked me about pay expectations during the first round screener, I responded "I think the salary range that was posted on the job description makes sense" (which was a base of only 220k) and that's all. Once I got the offer, I said that the number offered was below market (I sent them comparable job postings) and I negotiated an additional $50k in total comp. Good luck.

[nealric]

Thanks! This was really helpful, any insight on where I should be looking for in house positions? I haven’t been on the job hunt since OCI. Recruiter calls are for other firms.

I really don’t want to go to the firm’s client because they seem to work the same amount of hours as us at least from the emails we receive.

Ideally, you'd know someone at the company or have a second order connection. In-house jobs can be a bit siloed by industry. While industry changes do happen, it's common for people to stay in their industry (i.e. bigtech, banking, oil and gas, etc.). You gain a lot of industry-specific expertise working in house, which employers tend to value. The industry you want to target may depend on your practice area and where you are. For example, you are probably looking more at banking/finance in NYC, Tech in California, or Oil and Gas in Texas.

Once you have an industry/city in mind, informational interviews can be extremely helpful. For example, I know what other companies I'd target if I ever needed another job and what companies would avoid because I have extensive industry knowledge now. Ten years ago when I was starting in-house, I didn't have that knowledge and was flying somewhat blind (fortunately I lucked out into a good company). Find someone who works for the type of company you'd like to work for and see if you can pick their brain. You don't need to know them personally- alumni from your law school, firm alumni, and bas association contacts can be very helpful.

Does your firm really only have one corporate client? Perhaps there are others that you simply don't work for but think well of your firm. However, it is important to note that sometimes the culture can be very sub-group or personality dependent. My company has a pretty good 8-5 culture without weekend expectations (absent an unusual emergency), but there are certainly individuals who work and send off-hours emails/requests. Sometimes the requests may come to the law firm late because the company has finished its workday and they have arrived at a consensus on what they want to do now- not because they are necessarily hard at work. That said, there are workaholic in-house groups out there. At the very least, you will have less hours pressure due to lack of the billable hour. You can look for efficiencies and also send true fire drills to outside counsel when you are in-house.