Rumors about billing requirements at Kirkland Forum

[Anonymous User]

I've been told now by several practicing big law attorneys (mostly at other firms) that at Kirkland, if you're not billing at least 2,300 hours a year, your job is not secure and you won't be competitive for bonuses.

How true is this? For the Kirkland folk, if you bill 2,000 hours in a given year, would you sweat it? I always figured the high billables at Kirkland were just a result of how much work there is to do. But I'm concerned after hearing than 2,000 hours can put you on the chopping plot.

What's true and what's not?

[Sackboy]

In the last round of layoffs, people with up to 2,500 hours were supposedly canned. I doubt there were too many with good hours who got fired. If you're billing 2,000+, in normal times, you're fine. Kirkland's bonus multiplier has just become more trash over the years, so don't break your back to get 1.2x a $50k bonus. Not worth it. Striving for a higher multiplier by working more hours just lets me know you're dense.

[Anonymous User]

I've been told now by several practicing big law attorneys (mostly at other firms) that at Kirkland, if you're not billing at least 2,300 hours a year, your job is not secure and you won't be competitive for bonuses.

How true is this? For the Kirkland folk, if you bill 2,000 hours in a given year, would you sweat it? I always figured the high billables at Kirkland were just a result of how much work there is to do. But I'm concerned after hearing than 2,000 hours can put you on the chopping plot.

What's true and what's not?

Bonus multipliers start at additional hours over 1800 for associates, and NSPs must bill 2000 hours to be eligible for merit bonus. So these thresholds are probably as close as you will come to unofficial minimums (1800 for associate, 2000 for NSP). Only hitting the minimum might not be 100% endearing to every partner in every practice group, but they wouldn't be 'minimums' if they were.

[Anonymous User]

In the last round of layoffs, people with up to 2,500 hours were supposedly canned. I doubt there were too many with good hours who got fired. If you're billing 2,000+, in normal times, you're fine. Kirkland's bonus multiplier has just become more trash over the years, so don't break your back to get 1.2x a $50k bonus. Not worth it. Striving for a higher multiplier by working more hours just lets me know you're dense.

No one was canned with a 12-month 2500+ hour count. If someone did something absolutely insane (inappropriate remarks, etc.), maybe. People like to throw numbers around, but hitting 2500+ in 12 months is hard. As someone who has reviewed 100 associates (in M&A) over the last 3 years, hitting 2,500 is a lot less common than people make it out to be at KE - MAYBE 5-10% of associates in a big year. You aren't that busy when people don't like working with you / you produce bad work. Each year when I do reviews and I get to a particularly bad associate I worked with that year, their hours have never been in the higher biller range.

[Anonymous User]

I've been told now by several practicing big law attorneys (mostly at other firms) that at Kirkland, if you're not billing at least 2,300 hours a year, your job is not secure and you won't be competitive for bonuses.

How true is this? For the Kirkland folk, if you bill 2,000 hours in a given year, would you sweat it? I always figured the high billables at Kirkland were just a result of how much work there is to do. But I'm concerned after hearing than 2,000 hours can put you on the chopping plot.

What's true and what's not?

Bonus multipliers start at additional hours over 1800 for associates, and NSPs must bill 2000 hours to be eligible for merit bonus. So these thresholds are probably as close as you will come to unofficial minimums (1800 for associate, 2000 for NSP). Only hitting the minimum might not be 100% endearing to every partner in every practice group, but they wouldn't be 'minimums' if they were.

Agree - the bonus multipliers are pretty weak and definitely not worth it. This 2,000 hour min for NSP bonuses is not a rule - I know certain NSPs in the sub 2000 range last year that received above market bonuses (very slightly above, I think it was a base level NSP bonus). I can't confirm the 1800 for associates is BS, but given the 2,000 hour "minimum" for NSP stated, guessing you are just making stuff up.

[Anonymous User]

I've been told now by several practicing big law attorneys (mostly at other firms) that at Kirkland, if you're not billing at least 2,300 hours a year, your job is not secure and you won't be competitive for bonuses.

How true is this? For the Kirkland folk, if you bill 2,000 hours in a given year, would you sweat it? I always figured the high billables at Kirkland were just a result of how much work there is to do. But I'm concerned after hearing than 2,000 hours can put you on the chopping plot.

What's true and what's not?

Bonus multipliers start at additional hours over 1800 for associates, and NSPs must bill 2000 hours to be eligible for merit bonus. So these thresholds are probably as close as you will come to unofficial minimums (1800 for associate, 2000 for NSP). Only hitting the minimum might not be 100% endearing to every partner in every practice group, but they wouldn't be 'minimums' if they were.

Agree - the bonus multipliers are pretty weak and definitely not worth it. This 2,000 hour min for NSP bonuses is not a rule - I know certain NSPs in the sub 2000 range last year that received above market bonuses (very slightly above, I think it was a base level NSP bonus). I can't confirm the 1800 for associates is BS, but given the 2,000 hour "minimum" for NSP stated, guessing you are just making stuff up.

Not OP but can someone explain how multipliers work for firm bonuses in general (or like I'm 5)? With actual numbers from experience at KE?

I just thought as a first year you would get a standard bonus of $20K. Is this accurate? Is there a way to get more than this? And how do the numbers look?

[Dr Tobias Funke]

I've been told now by several practicing big law attorneys (mostly at other firms) that at Kirkland, if you're not billing at least 2,300 hours a year, your job is not secure and you won't be competitive for bonuses.

How true is this? For the Kirkland folk, if you bill 2,000 hours in a given year, would you sweat it? I always figured the high billables at Kirkland were just a result of how much work there is to do. But I'm concerned after hearing than 2,000 hours can put you on the chopping plot.

What's true and what's not?

Bonus multipliers start at additional hours over 1800 for associates, and NSPs must bill 2000 hours to be eligible for merit bonus. So these thresholds are probably as close as you will come to unofficial minimums (1800 for associate, 2000 for NSP). Only hitting the minimum might not be 100% endearing to every partner in every practice group, but they wouldn't be 'minimums' if they were.

Agree - the bonus multipliers are pretty weak and definitely not worth it. This 2,000 hour min for NSP bonuses is not a rule - I know certain NSPs in the sub 2000 range last year that received above market bonuses (very slightly above, I think it was a base level NSP bonus). I can't confirm the 1800 for associates is BS, but given the 2,000 hour "minimum" for NSP stated, guessing you are just making stuff up.

Not OP but can someone explain how multipliers work for firm bonuses in general (or like I'm 5)? With actual numbers from experience at KE?

I just thought as a first year you would get a standard bonus of $20K. Is this accurate? Is there a way to get more than this? And how do the numbers look?

Here are 600 posts about it: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=260836&p=10546937& ... #p10546937

[nealric]

In the last round of layoffs, people with up to 2,500 hours were supposedly canned. I doubt there were too many with good hours who got fired. If you're billing 2,000+, in normal times, you're fine. Kirkland's bonus multiplier has just become more trash over the years, so don't break your back to get 1.2x a $50k bonus. Not worth it. Striving for a higher multiplier by working more hours just lets me know you're dense.

No one was canned with a 12-month 2500+ hour count. If someone did something absolutely insane (inappropriate remarks, etc.), maybe. People like to throw numbers around, but hitting 2500+ in 12 months is hard. As someone who has reviewed 100 associates (in M&A) over the last 3 years, hitting 2,500 is a lot less common than people make it out to be at KE - MAYBE 5-10% of associates in a big year. You aren't that busy when people don't like working with you / you produce bad work. Each year when I do reviews and I get to a particularly bad associate I worked with that year, their hours have never been in the higher biller range.

It's pretty rare for any associate hitting even 2,000 hours to be canned. The only time I've heard of it happening is a mid-level associate who did literally nothing other than doc review for those hours (possibly because partners didn't trust the associate with anything else). Perhaps also if a serious portion of the hours are being written off.

Agree that 2500+ is a huge year at any firm. Even at firms with a 2,000 hour "requirement" it's not uncommon for the median associate to bill more like 1,800.