Who are the richest lawyers in BigLaw? Forum

[Ferguson]

Was wondering what BigLaw partners you think would take home the most money.

This excludes the high end personal injury lawyers that always top the lists and the guys that quit being a lawyer and started a billion dollar company.

[Anonymous User]

The high-end personal-injury types are the only lawyers who ever make over a billion. One step below that, top plaintiffs attorneys at boutiques like Susman Godfrey, Kellogg Hansen, and Irell & Manella can accumulate hundreds of millions. Also in that category, there are founding partners / name partners at major firms (e.g. David Boies). One step below that is the rainmakers at high PPEP law firms. Some of the top M&A partners at Kirkland & Ellis, for example, reportedly make about $25 million a year.

[Anonymous User]

The high-end personal-injury types are the only lawyers who ever make over a billion. One step below that, top plaintiffs attorneys at boutiques like Susman Godfrey, Kellogg Hansen, and Irell & Manella can accumulate hundreds of millions. Also in that category, there are founding partners / name partners at major firms (e.g. David Boies). One step below that is the rainmakers at high PPEP law firms. Some of the top M&A partners at Kirkland & Ellis, for example, reportedly make about $25 million a year.

Kellogg doesn't really do plaintiff work and certainly doesn't do it on contingency

[Anonymous User]

The high-end personal-injury types are the only lawyers who ever make over a billion. One step below that, top plaintiffs attorneys at boutiques like Susman Godfrey, Kellogg Hansen, and Irell & Manella can accumulate hundreds of millions. Also in that category, there are founding partners / name partners at major firms (e.g. David Boies). One step below that is the rainmakers at high PPEP law firms. Some of the top M&A partners at Kirkland & Ellis, for example, reportedly make about $25 million a year.

Kellogg doesn't really do plaintiff work and certainly doesn't do it on contingency

https://abovethelaw.com/2017/04/the-500 ... owerhouse/

[Anonymous User]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/on-wall-st ... w-ae8070a7

[Anonymous User]

The high-end personal-injury types are the only lawyers who ever make over a billion. One step below that, top plaintiffs attorneys at boutiques like Susman Godfrey, Kellogg Hansen, and Irell & Manella can accumulate hundreds of millions. Also in that category, there are founding partners / name partners at major firms (e.g. David Boies). One step below that is the rainmakers at high PPEP law firms. Some of the top M&A partners at Kirkland & Ellis, for example, reportedly make about $25 million a year.

Kellogg doesn't really do plaintiff work and certainly doesn't do it on contingency

https://abovethelaw.com/2017/04/the-500 ... owerhouse/

https://www.kellogghansen.com/practices ... ation.html

[Bossman9]

Probably one of the Susman lawyers that do commercial lit in Houston.

[nealric]

If you strip out the bigger lit boutiques like Sussman from "biglaw" and one-off founders, it's likely going to be the top M&A partners at a place like Kirkland. There's been a lot of bidding wars for top M&A rainmakers over the last decade or so. But these sorts are such a tiny slice of the biglaw population (let alone practicing lawyers as a whole) that it's not worth getting too concerned over. I'm don't think I'd want to trade my life with that of any of those folks either.

[Anonymous User]

Why do you all think boutique partners make so much money? All the sources I’ve seen have even the top boutique partners making far less than the V20.

Although the revenue per lawyer of Irell and Susman is next to S&C, Cravath, Kirkland, PW etc, the leverage (like Wachtell’s leverage) is way lower so the profits per equity partner of the boutiques is far lower than the whole of the V20. Even Wachtell, with its historically sky high RPL, now has lower PEPP than Kirkland due to Kirkland’s higher leverage (combined with Kirkland’s high billable rates for associates, NEPs of course).

Profits per equity partner for 2023:

Kirkland: 7.5 mil
Wachtell: 7.3 mil
S&C: 5.9 mil
PW: 5.7 mil
DPW: 5.5 mil
STB: 5.3 mil
Quinn: 5.2 mil
Latham: 5.1 mil
Skadden: 5.0 mil

And so on through the V20 and then finally you get down to Irell and Susman at:

Irell PPEP: 3.7 mil
Susman PPEP: 3.2 mil
Boies: PPEP: 2.5 mil

This isn’t unique to 2023 either. AmLaw publishes the stats every year. The V20 etc is more profitable for partners year over year because the firms charge huge associate billable rates to stable repeat clients but only pay associates 1/5th of their billable amounts. Repeat this formula 400 to 2,000 times and you get a nice outcome. For example, an associate with a $700 an hour rate at 2000 hours has revenue of 1.4 mil but only gets paid ~250K and the rest goes to overhead (rent, staff, health insurance, etc) and then to the partners. Multiply that by 500 associates / NEPs and you are talking serious money. The issue for the boutiques is that they do not have enough associates billing at high rates or do not bring in enough from cases using other charging models to match the top PPEP firms.

There are many great reasons to choose a boutique and but money isn’t the best reason.

[Anonymous User]

My moneys on Barshay

[Anonymous User]

Why do you all think boutique partners make so much money? All the sources I’ve seen have even the top boutique partners making far less than the V20.

Although the revenue per lawyer of Irell and Susman is next to S&C, Cravath, Kirkland, PW etc, the leverage (like Wachtell’s leverage) is way lower so the profits per equity partner of the boutiques is far lower than the whole of the V20. Even Wachtell, with its historically sky high RPL, now has lower PEPP than Kirkland due to Kirkland’s higher leverage (combined with Kirkland’s high billable rates for associates, NEPs of course).

Profits per equity partner for 2023:

Kirkland: 7.5 mil
Wachtell: 7.3 mil
S&C: 5.9 mil
PW: 5.7 mil
DPW: 5.5 mil
STB: 5.3 mil
Quinn: 5.2 mil
Latham: 5.1 mil
Skadden: 5.0 mil

And so on through the V20 and then finally you get down to Irell and Susman at:

Irell PPEP: 3.7 mil
Susman PPEP: 3.2 mil
Boies: PPEP: 2.5 mil

This isn’t unique to 2023 either. AmLaw publishes the stats every year. The V20 etc is more profitable for partners year over year because the firms charge huge associate billable rates to stable repeat clients but only pay associates 1/5th of their billable amounts. Repeat this formula 400 to 2,000 times and you get a nice outcome. For example, an associate with a $700 an hour rate at 2000 hours has revenue of 1.4 mil but only gets paid ~250K and the rest goes to overhead (rent, staff, health insurance, etc) and then to the partners. Multiply that by 500 associates / NEPs and you are talking serious money. The issue for the boutiques is that they do not have enough associates billing at high rates or do not bring in enough from cases using other charging models to match the top PPEP firms.

There are many great reasons to choose a boutique and but money isn’t the best reason.

The PPEP numbers are misleading. Boutiques make more partners than megafirms and provide more lifestyle flexibility, all of which deflates their numbers. For example, at Kirkland, only 1 in 5 lawyers is a share partner and old/unproductive partners lose their shares lickety-split. At Susman, share partners make up over half the firm and no one ever loses their shares even if they get old and choose to half-retire. It's therefore not helpful to draw comparisons between those two groups of partners. If DLA Piper had only one equity partner and paid him $15 million, would DLA Piper suddenly be the firm with the wealthiest lawyers? Of course not. Other metrics, such as RPL, more accurately measure boutiques' financial success. There, as you note, the gap between Irell and Susman and megafirms like Cravath and Kirkland vanishes. This thread isn't about averages, though, it's about the wealthiest individual lawyers. That's where the boutiques separate themselves. While many partners at Irell or Susman make less than partners at Kirkland or Cravath, the top lawyers at those boutiques (for instance, Morgan Chu and Neal Manne) have banked hundreds of millions of dollars over their careers. As someone else pointed out, David Frederick reportedly made over a hundred million dollars in a single year. Can any megafirm lawyer match that?

[Anonymous User]

Why do you all think boutique partners make so much money? All the sources I’ve seen have even the top boutique partners making far less than the V20.

Generally agree with your overall analysis, but the main partners on Dominion could easily be taking home $20–30 million this year, or more. No one thinks boutique partners are guaranteed to make so much money, but there's way more opportunity for massive upside.

[nealric]

Why do you all think boutique partners make so much money? All the sources I’ve seen have even the top boutique partners making far less than the V20.

Generally agree with your overall analysis, but the main partners on Dominion could easily be taking home $20–30 million this year, or more. No one thinks boutique partners are guaranteed to make so much money, but there's way more opportunity for massive upside.

Right- massive contingency fees are the real X-factor. Lawyers like Joe Jamail didn't become billionaires by billing hours. You have to do a decent bit of plaintiff's side work (which biglaw typically can't take due to conflicts) to be in the running for those. On the other hand, the Sussmans of the world also do work at regular biglaw rates, but with less leverage- so they may be less profitable on average bread and butter work.

[institutionalized]

You can get good numbers from partners who go on to do government work. Jay Clayton disclosed a $7.6 million partnership draw for the year he was nominated and $50 million in assets. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... Disclosure

Also, various articles mention salaries from time to time.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/26/busi ... ching.html Scott Barshay, $10 million in 2018

https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2 ... -earnings/ Lawrence Barshay (Scott Barshay's brother), $11 million in 2018

Feels like most articles about partners poached by Kirkland mention a guaranteed salary of $10 million plus for a few years.

[institutionalized]

Oh yeah, for a while Tom Reid's (former managing partner of DPW) salary was disclosed in Comcast's proxy. About $10 million a year. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data ... def14a.htm

[Anonymous User]

Oh yeah, for a while Tom Reid's (former managing partner of DPW) salary was disclosed in Comcast's proxy. About $10 million a year. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data ... def14a.htm

Katie Sudol (KKR, ex-STB head of M&A) received all in comp of just under $19 million for 2022: https://www.law.com/corpcounsel/2023/02 ... ock-grant/.

I’ve not seen John Finley’s numbers lately. GCs of places like Travelers, Goldman, Morgan Stanley, etc. also tend to take in a bit.

As for biglaw:
- I’ve also heard that Kirkland Exec Comm partners make 20-25m a year on some authority
- Also heard that Barshay at PW makes more than that, but apocryphal.
- Quinn lawyers with big paydays also manage quite a lot - some guy who managed a $900 million settlement where the firm took a third, that kind of thing. Which would suggest that John Quinn may be worth close to eight figures.
- Would be interested to see what Herlihy, Neff, Savitt, Mirvis etc. make at WLRK.
- Imagine Marty Lipton’s (and Joe Flom’s, Rodgin Cohin’s, etc.) earnings over the years blow others out of the park on an inflation-adjusted basis.
- Along with Joe Jamail, I also saw Steve Susman’s net worth estimated by Forbes at over $1 bn a few years ago, for whatever that’s worth.

[Anonymous User]

Oh yeah, for a while Tom Reid's (former managing partner of DPW) salary was disclosed in Comcast's proxy. About $10 million a year. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data ... def14a.htm

Katie Sudol (KKR, ex-STB head of M&A) received all in comp of just under $19 million for 2022: https://www.law.com/corpcounsel/2023/02 ... ock-grant/.

I’ve not seen John Finley’s numbers lately. GCs of places like Travelers, Goldman, Morgan Stanley, etc. also tend to take in a bit.

As for biglaw:
- I’ve also heard that Kirkland Exec Comm partners make 20-25m a year on some authority
- Also heard that Barshay at PW makes more than that, but apocryphal.
- Quinn lawyers with big paydays also manage quite a lot - some guy who managed a $900 million settlement where the firm took a third, that kind of thing. Which would suggest that John Quinn may be worth close to eight figures.
- Would be interested to see what Herlihy, Neff, Savitt, Mirvis etc. make at WLRK.
- Imagine Marty Lipton’s (and Joe Flom’s, Rodgin Cohin’s, etc.) earnings over the years blow others out of the park on an inflation-adjusted basis.
- Along with Joe Jamail, I also saw Steve Susman’s net worth estimated by Forbes at over $1 bn a few years ago, for whatever that’s worth.

I think the real answer here is name partners at massive firms who live into their 80s and 90s and keep getting partnership draws as the firm grows from a few people into a global megafirm. So Marty Lipton, Joe Flom, etc. And if his health holds up I imagine John Quinn will fall into this category.

Edit: also some questionable claims in here. Barshay's income has already been posted in this thread from a reputable source at way lower than $25m a year. Wachtell has lockstep comp and so their partners' income should be readily determinable by seniority. Also I know everyone on this board loves to dick ride Susman Godfrey but I really doubt Susman himself was worth a billion. With the firm's small size and eat-what-you-kill structure he would have had to get there like Joe Jamail, through contingency fees. He won some big ones but it would be on the Internet if he had won ten figures' worth.

[Anonymous User]

As for biglaw:
- I’ve also heard that Kirkland Exec Comm partners make 20-25m a year on some authority
- Also heard that Barshay at PW makes more than that, but apocryphal.
- Quinn lawyers with big paydays also manage quite a lot - some guy who managed a $900 million settlement where the firm took a third, that kind of thing. Which would suggest that John Quinn may be worth close to eight figures.
- Would be interested to see what Herlihy, Neff, Savitt, Mirvis etc. make at WLRK.
- Imagine Marty Lipton’s (and Joe Flom’s, Rodgin Cohin’s, etc.) earnings over the years blow others out of the park on an inflation-adjusted basis.
- Along with Joe Jamail, I also saw Steve Susman’s net worth estimated by Forbes at over $1 bn a few years ago, for whatever that’s worth.

Edit: also some questionable claims in here. Barshay's income has already been posted in this thread from a reputable source at way lower than $25m a year. Wachtell has lockstep comp and so their partners' income should be readily determinable by seniority. Also I know everyone on this board loves to dick ride Susman Godfrey but I really doubt Susman himself was worth a billion. With the firm's small size and eat-what-you-kill structure he would have had to get there like Joe Jamail, through contingency fees. He won some big ones but it would be on the Internet if he had won ten figures' worth.

Anon to whom you're responding. I made no suggestion/claim that anything I was saying was authoritative - this entire thread is based on speculation and my post on apocrypha that I can't source for obvious reasons. But a few points:

1. The Scott Barshay $10 million figure is from 2018 (and even then was likely a floor rather than a ceiling - there were similar figures quoted when he moved from Cravath in 2016). In the time since then M&A has gone gangbusters, PW's PPEP has gone up by over $1m/year, PW has made some pretty big hires who would likely have commanded more than that figure to come across (e.g., Veeraraghavan), and Barshay has been at the top of the PW corporate pyramid the entire time. In addition, PW has managed to keep him at a time when lateral hiring packages for people without his book have been eye-popping.

2. My understanding is that WLRK isn't *pure* lockstep - Marty Lipton and Herb Wachtell have always been "off lockstep". As for the people at the top, lockstep can range from 3.5:1 to 6-8:1 (among other variants thereof). If you know how WLRK's distribution looks, I'd be thrilled if you could share it. If you've been running that firm or even a major practice group for several years, I don't think it beggars belief that you'd make a fair bit. As much as K&E Exec Comm? I have no clue.

3. No boosting for Steve Susman intended here. I've just seen the size of gifts he's given to UT and Yale over the years, and some stuff that's been quoted at different times. He also had some pretty big contingency wins (Texas Instruments v. Samsung, etc).

But sure. If you want the implication that the only people making out like true bandits are the K&E Executive Committee and John Quinn to stand, I'm in no position and have no inclination to disabuse you of those notions. I know that everyone mentioned or referenced here is making far more than I am or probably ever will, and can only wish them well.

[Anonymous User]

Oh yeah, for a while Tom Reid's (former managing partner of DPW) salary was disclosed in Comcast's proxy. About $10 million a year. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data ... def14a.htm

Katie Sudol (KKR, ex-STB head of M&A) received all in comp of just under $19 million for 2022: https://www.law.com/corpcounsel/2023/02 ... ock-grant/.

I’ve not seen John Finley’s numbers lately. GCs of places like Travelers, Goldman, Morgan Stanley, etc. also tend to take in a bit.

As for biglaw:
- I’ve also heard that Kirkland Exec Comm partners make 20-25m a year on some authority
- Also heard that Barshay at PW makes more than that, but apocryphal.
- Quinn lawyers with big paydays also manage quite a lot - some guy who managed a $900 million settlement where the firm took a third, that kind of thing. Which would suggest that John Quinn may be worth close to eight figures.
- Would be interested to see what Herlihy, Neff, Savitt, Mirvis etc. make at WLRK.
- Imagine Marty Lipton’s (and Joe Flom’s, Rodgin Cohin’s, etc.) earnings over the years blow others out of the park on an inflation-adjusted basis.
- Along with Joe Jamail, I also saw Steve Susman’s net worth estimated by Forbes at over $1 bn a few years ago, for whatever that’s worth.

I think the real answer here is name partners at massive firms who live into their 80s and 90s and keep getting partnership draws as the firm grows from a few people into a global megafirm. So Marty Lipton, Joe Flom, etc. And if his health holds up I imagine John Quinn will fall into this category.

Edit: also some questionable claims in here. Barshay's income has already been posted in this thread from a reputable source at way lower than $25m a year. Wachtell has lockstep comp and so their partners' income should be readily determinable by seniority. Also I know everyone on this board loves to dick ride Susman Godfrey but I really doubt Susman himself was worth a billion. With the firm's small size and eat-what-you-kill structure he would have had to get there like Joe Jamail, through contingency fees. He won some big ones but it would be on the Internet if he had won ten figures' worth.

Folks overlook the power of compound interest. Susman won over $320 million in the corrugated cardboard cases back in 1981. Conservatively, he must have taken home $50 million from that win. Call it $25 million post-tax. If he invested all that money in the S&P 500 and never made another penny in his life, that win alone would be worth over $1 billion at the time of his death 39 years later. The value of contingency work doesn't just come in winning the big verdict. The value comes in winning the big verdict at a young enough age to let the market work its magic.

[Anonymous User]

Any founding partner of a V100 firm.

Think like David Boies or Marty Lipton.

[Anonymous User]

I'm pretty sure it actually is David Boies.

[RedNewJersey]

I'm pretty sure it actually is David Boies.

I agree. He's done some very high-paying contingency work, and has been top-of-his game for decades and decades. Also--just as important--he seems to be quite greedy, so I think he's been getting a magnificent partnership draw from BSF. Again, for *decades.* My sense is that some law firm founders have taken less $$ than they could have in order to foster a culture they like better (Susman comes to mind).

[Anonymous User]

I'm pretty sure it actually is David Boies.

I agree. He's done some very high-paying contingency work, and has been top-of-his game for decades and decades. Also--just as important--he seems to be quite greedy, so I think he's been getting a magnificent partnership draw from BSF. Again, for *decades.* My sense is that some law firm founders have taken less $$ than they could have in order to foster a culture they like better (Susman comes to mind).

Just to add some color, Boies has multiple homes along the East Coast, a vineyard of his own on the West Coast, travels regularly by chopper, has published books that have sold decently well, and has on-call availability at some of the most desired venues in New York (restaurants, sporting events, etc.). He took a risk when he left Cravath, and he took a few hits in the last decade, but DAMN did he clean up!