Summer Associate Signing Bonuses a thing? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I am a law student with multiple offers from top firms. I think I know which one I want to choose, but I was wondering if it would be bad to ask for a signing bonus since I have multiple offer. That was common in the industry I was in before going to law school. Unsure how common it is in the legal industry -- especially as a summer associate. I'm afraid they'd just tell me to kick rocks lol.

[Anonymous User]

I am a law student with multiple offers from top firms. I think I know which one I want to choose, but I was wondering if it would be bad to ask for a signing bonus since I have multiple offer. That was common in the industry I was in before going to law school. Unsure how common it is in the legal industry -- especially as a summer associate. I'm afraid they'd just tell me to kick rocks lol.

Not common at all, ever, never heard of this, ever. My instinct is that even asking would be audaciously inappropriate and you'll damage your reputation by doing it.

[Anonymous User]

Simpson did this last year.

[Anonymous User]

Seconding the above; would only note that many firms offer diversity fellowships that are effectively signing bonuses for those who get them. Not sure about timing but worth looking into if you think you might be eligible

[Pneumonia]

Kirkland did this several years ago, and other firms have done it too, even for non-diverse SAs. But it is something that overall market conditions dictate. You should not ask for it. Almost everyone at big firms will have multiple offers, so that won’t sway the balance. It would just be weird ask.

[Anonymous User]

Not a thing unless you're diverse and you want a diversity scholarship

[Anonymous User]

wachtell tried recruiting me as a 3l, i asked for a $400k bonus with RSUs. they pussyfooted around until i told them i would walk. they signed me right there

[ChickenSalad]

This is an asinine idea that would forever tarnish your reputation. Like, a rescinded offer territory of bad

[asdfasdf2]

While this is uncommon, it is maybe worth questioning why this is uncommon for us as an industry. We make partners many times more than they pay us. PPP also continues to grow at a faster rate than associate salaries. While associate supply is not tight per se, it is also not an unlimited pool either, especially when accounting for practice area differentiation. Maybe signing bonuses would make some sense, at least when the candidate is more than a generalist KJD?

[Anonymous User]

You're right about PPP growing faster than associate salaries, so the latter should be raised to keep up somewhat with the former. But giving out bonuses to summer associates doesn't make a ton of sense since summers are largely fungible commodities. In truth, the summer associate salary and the first & second year salaries are essentially a bonus because they're being paid to people who aren't generating much revenue in return.

[Anonymous User]

You're right about PPP growing faster than associate salaries, so the latter should be raised to keep up somewhat with the former. But giving out bonuses to summer associates doesn't make a ton of sense since summers are largely fungible commodities. In truth, the summer associate salary and the first & second year salaries are essentially a bonus because they're being paid to people who aren't generating much revenue in return.

The thing about first and second year associates not being profitable is mostly not true anymore, and hasnt been for several years. (But yeah, summers for sure. they obviously dont make the firm any money).

[asdfasdf2]

You're right about PPP growing faster than associate salaries, so the latter should be raised to keep up somewhat with the former. But giving out bonuses to summer associates doesn't make a ton of sense since summers are largely fungible commodities. In truth, the summer associate salary and the first & second year salaries are essentially a bonus because they're being paid to people who aren't generating much revenue in return.

The thing about first and second year associates not being profitable is mostly not true anymore, and hasnt been for several years. (But yeah, summers for sure. they obviously dont make the firm any money).

Well no one really earns a signing bonus at the time they receive it. But they may be expected to earn it back for the firm and then some. Come to think of it, even fast food restaurants and trucking companies offer signing bonuses.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

While this is uncommon, it is maybe worth questioning why this is uncommon for us as an industry. We make partners many times more than they pay us. PPP also continues to grow at a faster rate than associate salaries. While associate supply is not tight per se, it is also not an unlimited pool either, especially when accounting for practice area differentiation. Maybe signing bonuses would make some sense, at least when the candidate is more than a generalist KJD?

If you are at most Biglaw firms your "signing bonus" is what basically amounts to getting paid $4000 a week to go to camp.

Our summers sweat out a hangover in some worthless morning meeting, paraded around by attractive recruiting assistants whose job is to be pleasant to them, get free lunch every day, bill like three hours a day on the least important thing we can possibly come up with, bullshit around in each other's offices for the rest of the afternoon, and every now and then go rock climbing or something. Frightened as they all may be, for the large majority of them the only possible consequential fuckup is asking the managing partner's wife to do a little spin. One day my biggest concern was getting back from the Hamptons in time to get to the firm's suite at a concert. My firm joked that the hierarchy went associates, counsel, partners, summers, and I privately joked that the smart thing to do would be to skip the full-time offer in favor of putting on a fake mustache and trying again for next year.

It's absurd that it even exists but like everything else in this perpetually antiquated industry it's a relic from back when students would have tons of different options and thus needed to be pitched on coming to Firm X (and so they can tell all their friends on the fence too). Nowadays since most kids don't have an option other than the firm they summered with, a firm could pretty much whip you like a mule with no consequences, but the trips on a partner's jetski persist like some sort of champagne appendix because most firms are terrified of changing anything at all about the way they operate.

[The Lsat Airbender]

Nowadays since most kids don't have an option other than the firm they summered with, a firm could pretty much whip you like a mule with no consequences, but the trips on a partner's jetski persist like some sort of champagne appendix because most firms are terrified of changing anything at all about the way they operate.

Eh, there's still a bit of an arms race among summer programs. Because of the oligopolistic salary-matching among big firms, the summer program is (as you note) a load-bearing aspect of competition much like a signing bonus. If, say, DPW's summer program became less pleasant, they'd start losing more 2Ls to Paul Comma Weiss et al.

[cavalier1138]

While this is uncommon, it is maybe worth questioning why this is uncommon for us as an industry. We make partners many times more than they pay us. PPP also continues to grow at a faster rate than associate salaries. While associate supply is not tight per se, it is also not an unlimited pool either, especially when accounting for practice area differentiation. Maybe signing bonuses would make some sense, at least when the candidate is more than a generalist KJD?

Are there firms where summer associates actually make more money than is spent on them?

[Anonymous User]

Quinn’s summers work. Also “paraded around by attractive recruiting assistants??””

[Anonymous User]

A litigation boutique firm offered my friend a very large signing bonus just to be a summer associate with them. It was not a diversity scholarship either. My friend ended up going to another top litigation boutique firm (Susman, Kellogg, etc), but just know they do exist and are generally offered only to the best.

[victoremsemper]

The legal industry is truly the funniest thing ever. The top 100 firms or so all pay the exact same so you never really have to negotiate salary, you're never asked a substantive question in a hiring interview, no one expects you to know anything, and you just screw around for 10 weeks and pocket 45k. Literally serving you up everything on a platter - it's the perfect job for annoying liberal arts graduates who think they're more important and intelligent than they actually are (myself included).

We already have it pretty good, I think asking for a bonus would be a step too far lol

[Anonymous User]

Quinn’s summers work. Also “paraded around by attractive recruiting assistants??””

sighted: Quinn associate just now realizing their firm is bottom of the attractiveness totem pole

[Anonymous User]

While this is uncommon, it is maybe worth questioning why this is uncommon for us as an industry. We make partners many times more than they pay us. PPP also continues to grow at a faster rate than associate salaries. While associate supply is not tight per se, it is also not an unlimited pool either, especially when accounting for practice area differentiation. Maybe signing bonuses would make some sense, at least when the candidate is more than a generalist KJD?

If you are at most Biglaw firms your "signing bonus" is what basically amounts to getting paid $4000 a week to go to camp.

Our summers sweat out a hangover in some worthless morning meeting, paraded around by attractive recruiting assistants whose job is to be pleasant to them, get free lunch every day, bill like three hours a day on the least important thing we can possibly come up with, bullshit around in each other's offices for the rest of the afternoon, and every now and then go rock climbing or something. Frightened as they all may be, for the large majority of them the only possible consequential fuckup is asking the managing partner's wife to do a little spin. One day my biggest concern was getting back from the Hamptons in time to get to the firm's suite at a concert. My firm joked that the hierarchy went associates, counsel, partners, summers, and I privately joked that the smart thing to do would be to skip the full-time offer in favor of putting on a fake mustache and trying again for next year.

It's absurd that it even exists but like everything else in this perpetually antiquated industry it's a relic from back when students would have tons of different options and thus needed to be pitched on coming to Firm X (and so they can tell all their friends on the fence too). Nowadays since most kids don't have an option other than the firm they summered with, a firm could pretty much whip you like a mule with no consequences, but the trips on a partner's jetski persist like some sort of champagne appendix because most firms are terrified of changing anything at all about the way they operate.

Cravath?

[Anonymous User]

Quinn’s summers work. Also “paraded around by attractive recruiting assistants??””

sighted: Quinn associate just now realizing their firm is bottom of the attractiveness totem pole

I work at Quinn and I'm pretty hot.

[Anonymous User]

Quinn’s summers work. Also “paraded around by attractive recruiting assistants??””

The question isn't whether summers work. Its whether summers bill (and the client pays). Good luck with that

[Anonymous User]

White & Case works summers.

They did it during my summer and I see it first hand with “Sorry for the Friday evening email.” or “This project will require weekend work.” targeted at the summer.

Duh that’s the norm for associates, but 2Ls/1Ls with multiple offers should research how chill the summer program is before accepting since we all get paid the same. Would’ve rather had a chill summer.

10/10 don’t recommend summering there.

[Anonymous User]

Quinn’s summers work. Also “paraded around by attractive recruiting assistants??””

Can confirm--was a biglaw summer, did notice the recruiting assistants were attractive.

[Anonymous User]

Quinn’s summers work. Also “paraded around by attractive recruiting assistants??””

The question isn't whether summers work. Its whether summers bill (and the client pays). Good luck with that

I personally billed to a client a few times. A partner specifically told me to bill to the client matter number instead of the generic summer program one. I always wondered why this guy wanted me to do that and if it actually went to the client.