NYC DPW v. S&C Forum

[Anonymous User]

I am very lucky to be in the position of picking but I would appreciate any advice! I am choosing between summer offers in NYC at DPW or S&C. Just from my interviewing experience, I got along with the people at DPW much more but S&C's general practice model is very appealing. Overall, I'm leaning towards transactional practice, either in restructuring or finance but this could change. I recognize it'll be intense regardless but I really do want to be a little less miserable Thoughts? Thanks!

[The Lsat Airbender]

It sounds like you strongly prefer DPW. What's giving you pause, aside from the rotation model?

[Anonymous User]

DPW is nicer people, a better commute from almost anywhere, and a much better culture. If you want finance or bankruptcy you'll get it.

[The Lsat Airbender]

DPW is nicer people, a better commute from almost anywhere, and a much better culture. If you want finance or bankruptcy you'll get it.

idk, downtown is easier from most of Brooklyn and there are large chunks of Manhattan (or NJ) where both firms are about equally easy to commute to. This probably depends on whether you want to spend a few years as an associate in your 20's or if you're trying to commute in from the suburbs

Agree on the other points

[Anonymous User]

The people going to S&C from my school were so insufferable that I literally didn't even bid it. Got a great vibe from DPW. Feels like an easy choice to me.

[confusedandscared]

It sounds like you strongly prefer DPW. What's giving you pause, aside from the rotation model?

I think only because of the generalist practice because I'm undecided!

[Anonymous User]

If you want to do either restructuring or finance then DPW is a no brainer. Way better deal flow, smarter and nicer partners and senior associates. You also do rotations at DPW so you can still get a bit of broad exposure albeit less than the generalist practice at S&C

[Anonymous User]

I've worked at both of these firms. I preferred the general practice approach over the rotational approach, but the rotation is short lived and I wouldn't base your decision only on that.

Don't judge the firm's lawyers by the people you interviewed with, what your law school classmates are saying, or over-generalized statements such as the above poster's "DPW has nicer people" (what??) - these are generally inaccurate takes.

The people you work with and the "culture" of these firms will vary based on what practice group you join. For example, your experience in S&C M&A will be very different from an associate in S&C FIG or S&C CapM. The "culture" in these groups is different to the extent that it is like working at two different firms. Likewise at DPW. Your experience will also be highly dependent on whether you form good working relationships with reasonable partners, or if you just float through the generic staffing system (bad idea) and get staffed with partners who are less desirable to work for and thus can't staff their deals with associates that always want to work with them.

The difference between working in midtown and downtown, as odd as that sounds, is also something you might consider. Working in downtown is an underrated benefit, particularly if you live in Brooklyn or New Jersey.

If I had to start over and choose again, I'd choose S&C, but neither is a bad choice.

[Anonymous User]

I've worked at both of these firms. I preferred the general practice approach over the rotational approach, but the rotation is short lived and I wouldn't base your decision only on that.

Don't judge the firm's lawyers by the people you interviewed with, what your law school classmates are saying, or over-generalized statements such as the above poster's "DPW has nicer people" (what??) - these are generally inaccurate takes.

The people you work with and the "culture" of these firms will vary based on what practice group you join. For example, your experience in S&C M&A will be very different from an associate in S&C FIG or S&C CapM. The "culture" in these groups is different to the extent that it is like working at two different firms. Likewise at DPW. Your experience will also be highly dependent on whether you form good working relationships with reasonable partners, or if you just float through the generic staffing system (bad idea) and get staffed with partners who are less desirable to work for and thus can't staff their deals with associates that always want to work with them.

The difference between working in midtown and downtown, as odd as that sounds, is also something you might consider. Working in downtown is an underrated benefit, particularly if you live in Brooklyn or New Jersey.

If I had to start over and choose again, I'd choose S&C, but neither is a bad choice.

Interested to hear more about the benefits of downtown over midtown but for someone planning on staying in Manhattan. Also weighing an offer from a firm with an office in Hudson Yards. Thank you!

[Anonymous User]

Agree with the "firms are 800+ people, claims about overarching culture are probably too broad" takes.

Also been at both firms - painting as broadly as I feel like I can, the vibes at DPW were more social, while the vibes are S&C were a bit more reserved. Not that either was inherently bad, just maybe a slight guide on self sorting into what you are looking for into a work place. Even still, there were plenty of quieter people at DPW and plenty of people who went out together at S&C.

Kinda mirrored who went to each from my law school - DPW crowd was a lot more social, S&C people were more nerdy. Plenty of annoying people in both groups.

Broad brush culture is going to have way less influence on your experience as an associate than the firm's staffing system tho

[Anonymous User]

I've worked at both of these firms. I preferred the general practice approach over the rotational approach, but the rotation is short lived and I wouldn't base your decision only on that.

Don't judge the firm's lawyers by the people you interviewed with, what your law school classmates are saying, or over-generalized statements such as the above poster's "DPW has nicer people" (what??) - these are generally inaccurate takes.

The people you work with and the "culture" of these firms will vary based on what practice group you join. For example, your experience in S&C M&A will be very different from an associate in S&C FIG or S&C CapM. The "culture" in these groups is different to the extent that it is like working at two different firms. Likewise at DPW. Your experience will also be highly dependent on whether you form good working relationships with reasonable partners, or if you just float through the generic staffing system (bad idea) and get staffed with partners who are less desirable to work for and thus can't staff their deals with associates that always want to work with them.

The difference between working in midtown and downtown, as odd as that sounds, is also something you might consider. Working in downtown is an underrated benefit, particularly if you live in Brooklyn or New Jersey.

If I had to start over and choose again, I'd choose S&C, but neither is a bad choice.

Obviously it is going to vary from individual lawyer to lawyer, and DPW has some ass holes and S&C has some super nice people but I feel pretty comfortable saying that DPW does have nicer people overall than S&C—this is pretty well known and is a naturally byproduct of the way these firms hire. DPW puts way more focus on the callback interview and S&C puts way more focus on grades. I think this is especially true among the junior associates.

[Anonymous User]

If you’re actually interested in RX and finance, then DPW makes more sense. S&C isn’t on the same level in those practices.

[Anonymous User]

I've worked at both of these firms. I preferred the general practice approach over the rotational approach, but the rotation is short lived and I wouldn't base your decision only on that.

Don't judge the firm's lawyers by the people you interviewed with, what your law school classmates are saying, or over-generalized statements such as the above poster's "DPW has nicer people" (what??) - these are generally inaccurate takes.

The people you work with and the "culture" of these firms will vary based on what practice group you join. For example, your experience in S&C M&A will be very different from an associate in S&C FIG or S&C CapM. The "culture" in these groups is different to the extent that it is like working at two different firms. Likewise at DPW. Your experience will also be highly dependent on whether you form good working relationships with reasonable partners, or if you just float through the generic staffing system (bad idea) and get staffed with partners who are less desirable to work for and thus can't staff their deals with associates that always want to work with them.

The difference between working in midtown and downtown, as odd as that sounds, is also something you might consider. Working in downtown is an underrated benefit, particularly if you live in Brooklyn or New Jersey.

If I had to start over and choose again, I'd choose S&C, but neither is a bad choice.

I was only referring to the folks at DPW and S&C at the finance / restructuring groups. I’ve worked across from / with them as a lawyer and in non-lawyer roles. DPW’s restructuring team is sharper and just so much more pleasant to deal with, especially the partners. If I’m gonna spend 12 hours a day on a deal with either DPW or S&C I will take Damien / Eli over Andy Dieterich without a doubt.

[Anonymous User]

I've worked at both of these firms. I preferred the general practice approach over the rotational approach, but the rotation is short lived and I wouldn't base your decision only on that.

Don't judge the firm's lawyers by the people you interviewed with, what your law school classmates are saying, or over-generalized statements such as the above poster's "DPW has nicer people" (what??) - these are generally inaccurate takes.

The people you work with and the "culture" of these firms will vary based on what practice group you join. For example, your experience in S&C M&A will be very different from an associate in S&C FIG or S&C CapM. The "culture" in these groups is different to the extent that it is like working at two different firms. Likewise at DPW. Your experience will also be highly dependent on whether you form good working relationships with reasonable partners, or if you just float through the generic staffing system (bad idea) and get staffed with partners who are less desirable to work for and thus can't staff their deals with associates that always want to work with them.

The difference between working in midtown and downtown, as odd as that sounds, is also something you might consider. Working in downtown is an underrated benefit, particularly if you live in Brooklyn or New Jersey.

If I had to start over and choose again, I'd choose S&C, but neither is a bad choice.

I was only referring to the folks at DPW and S&C at the finance / restructuring groups. I’ve worked across from / with them as a lawyer and in non-lawyer roles. DPW’s restructuring team is sharper and just so much more pleasant to deal with, especially the partners. If I’m gonna spend 12 hours a day on a deal with either DPW or S&C I will take Damien / Eli over Andy Dieterich without a doubt.

Heard pretty decent things about the other S&C restructuring people (Bromley, mostly) but don't know much about the DPW people

[Anonymous User]

Deciding between the two, mainly for FIG (maybe also interested in M&A, but it's a distant second). Does anyone have insight into the relative strengths of/differences between S&C and DPW FIG? I know both have been handling the recent bank crises, maybe with DPW slightly more in the news? TIA!

[Anonymous User]

You can't go wrong with either, but I would pick SullCrom. Both are strong in your areas of interest, but you will likely not stay at either firm long-term. SullCrom will open more doors, as it is a much more prestigious law firm, especially in NYC.

[Anonymous User]

Deciding between the two, mainly for FIG (maybe also interested in M&A, but it's a distant second). Does anyone have insight into the relative strengths of/differences between S&C and DPW FIG? I know both have been handling the recent bank crises, maybe with DPW slightly more in the news? TIA!

Both are elite groups, make your decision based on whether you preferences between FiDi/Midtown or rotational/generalist

Also, disagree with above - DPW and S&C are completely peer firms in NYC, generally and in FIG. They are both in that "firms that are incredible but not Wachtell" level

[Anonymous User]

Deciding between the two, mainly for FIG (maybe also interested in M&A, but it's a distant second). Does anyone have insight into the relative strengths of/differences between S&C and DPW FIG? I know both have been handling the recent bank crises, maybe with DPW slightly more in the news? TIA!

Both are elite groups, make your decision based on whether you preferences between FiDi/Midtown or rotational/generalist

Also, disagree with above - DPW and S&C are completely peer firms in NYC, generally and in FIG. They are both in that "firms that are incredible but not Wachtell" level

SullCrom is much more selective and has better associate talent. It's probably WLKR>SullCrom>>>>DPW

[Anonymous User]

Deciding between the two, mainly for FIG (maybe also interested in M&A, but it's a distant second). Does anyone have insight into the relative strengths of/differences between S&C and DPW FIG? I know both have been handling the recent bank crises, maybe with DPW slightly more in the news? TIA!

Both are elite groups, make your decision based on whether you preferences between FiDi/Midtown or rotational/generalist

Also, disagree with above - DPW and S&C are completely peer firms in NYC, generally and in FIG. They are both in that "firms that are incredible but not Wachtell" level

SullCrom is much more selective and has better associate talent. It's probably WLKR>SullCrom>>>>DPW

Do they? They don't list associate honors on their website so i have no idea how that actually looks. Seemed to recruit the same credential bubble of people from my school, with most people having offers at both and making a call based on idiosyncratic preferences

[Anonymous User]

Deciding between the two, mainly for FIG (maybe also interested in M&A, but it's a distant second). Does anyone have insight into the relative strengths of/differences between S&C and DPW FIG? I know both have been handling the recent bank crises, maybe with DPW slightly more in the news? TIA!

Both are elite groups, make your decision based on whether you preferences between FiDi/Midtown or rotational/generalist

Also, disagree with above - DPW and S&C are completely peer firms in NYC, generally and in FIG. They are both in that "firms that are incredible but not Wachtell" level

SullCrom is much more selective and has better associate talent. It's probably WLKR>SullCrom>>>>DPW

This is an obvious troll.

[Anonymous User]

Deciding between the two, mainly for FIG (maybe also interested in M&A, but it's a distant second). Does anyone have insight into the relative strengths of/differences between S&C and DPW FIG? I know both have been handling the recent bank crises, maybe with DPW slightly more in the news? TIA!

Both are elite groups, make your decision based on whether you preferences between FiDi/Midtown or rotational/generalist

Also, disagree with above - DPW and S&C are completely peer firms in NYC, generally and in FIG. They are both in that "firms that are incredible but not Wachtell" level

SullCrom is much more selective and has better associate talent. It's probably WLKR>SullCrom>>>>DPW

This is an obvious troll.

Not anon, but I would actually agree. DPW digs deeper into the T6 than SullCrom does. SullCrom is also much more established V5 than DPW

[Anonymous User]

Deciding between the two, mainly for FIG (maybe also interested in M&A, but it's a distant second). Does anyone have insight into the relative strengths of/differences between S&C and DPW FIG? I know both have been handling the recent bank crises, maybe with DPW slightly more in the news? TIA!

Both are elite groups, make your decision based on whether you preferences between FiDi/Midtown or rotational/generalist

Also, disagree with above - DPW and S&C are completely peer firms in NYC, generally and in FIG. They are both in that "firms that are incredible but not Wachtell" level

SullCrom is much more selective and has better associate talent. It's probably WLKR>SullCrom>>>>DPW

This is an obvious troll.

Not anon, but I would actually agree. DPW digs deeper into the T6 than SullCrom does. SullCrom is also much more established V5 than DPW

And quite a bit leaner, no?

[Anonymous User]

Troll accuser anon here. I agree that S&C is more grade selective than DPW, at least at my T6.

I was primarily taking issue with the statement that, in terms of prestige, it goes WLRK > S&C >>>>>> DPW. S&C and DPW are very much peers (and both less prestigious than WLRK, obvs). FWIW I work at S&C.

[lawschoollurker123]

Deciding between the two, mainly for FIG (maybe also interested in M&A, but it's a distant second). Does anyone have insight into the relative strengths of/differences between S&C and DPW FIG? I know both have been handling the recent bank crises, maybe with DPW slightly more in the news? TIA!

Both are elite groups, make your decision based on whether you preferences between FiDi/Midtown or rotational/generalist

Also, disagree with above - DPW and S&C are completely peer firms in NYC, generally and in FIG. They are both in that "firms that are incredible but not Wachtell" level

SullCrom is much more selective and has better associate talent. It's probably WLKR>SullCrom>>>>DPW

This is an obvious troll.

Not anon, but I would actually agree. DPW digs deeper into the T6 than SullCrom does. SullCrom is also much more established V5 than DPW

lol just because DPW digs deeper into the T6 than S&C doesn't mean that they're not peers. S&C's grade cutoff is known to be more strict, but it's not astronomically high or anything. A 3.6-3.7 at a T14 (depending on which school) would guarantee a CB at S&C which would practically guarantee an offer. Meanwhile no grade will guarantee an offer from DPW. Sure, there are some people at DPW who wouldn't have gotten an offer from S&C, but plenty of DPW people including myself had S&C offers but chose DPW instead for a variety of reasons. So to say that S&C has better associate talent is simply not true. And to say that S&C is much more established than DPW is plainly wrong. Both firms have large institutional clients (S&C/GS, DPW/JPM & MS), and DPW has been at the center of the latest banking crisis (UBS/CS, JPM/First Republic, SVB) just as much, if not more, than S&C.

OP, both firms (along with CSM) are among the best NYC firms in that non-Wachtell tier, although they do have their relative strengths. (e.g., S&C for public M&A, DPW for Cap Markets and Finance) Meet people from both firms, think about what practice areas you may like, and go with your gut. I ended up choosing DPW and don't regret it one bit, but ymmv.

[Anonymous User]

Think this discussion actually gives you a good sense of the culture differences between the two. Both are very prestigious, but S&C folks are much more obsessed/concerned with it.

If that suits you, go to S&C. FWIW if you are truly set on finance/restructuring, DPW has the better reputation for those groups.