What do T6 grads with bad grades end up doing? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Curious about outcomes for T6 grads with lower grades..someone has to be bottom of the class.

[existentialcrisis]

The point of going to a top school is that you can still do poorly and still have a "good" outcome.

The answer is usually "biglaw" although during economic downturns the bottom of the class might struggle a bit.

[Anonymous User]

They go to less "prestigious" biglaw firms where they still make a lot of money.

[Anonymous User]

I was bottom 5% at a T6. Started at a v50 in a non-major market and have twice lateralled and now senior associate at a v15 in a major market.

[Anonymous User]

the meatgrinder that is NYC biglaw

[Anonymous User]

I mean how bad we talking. I guess if you're getting half B-s and half Bs you may just end up doing something like NYC mid-law. If we're talking a 3.15 then many will just go to a random V100 that pays market or close to it.

[Wild Card]

prostitution

well, shitty midlaw. not pryor cashman or whatever, worse

but that is the fate of most litigators. start at V10, V50, V100, end up in obscure midlaw

on the other hand, do corporate and the world is your oyster, and you can keep "lateralling" up and eventually go in-house or whatever

(idk whether graduating 350,000 in debt at 7% interest, and getting paid 190,000ish to do obscure midlaw is a good outcome. I guess you'll be in the green eventually.)

[Anonymous User]

prostitution

well, shitty midlaw. not pryor cashman or whatever, worse

but that is the fate of most litigators. start at V10, V50, V100, end up in obscure midlaw

on the other hand, do corporate and the world is your oyster, and you can keep "lateralling" up and eventually go in-house or whatever

(idk whether graduating 350,000 in debt at 7% interest, and getting paid 190,000ish to do obscure midlaw is a good outcome. I guess you'll be in the green eventually.)

Or you can go to the government and get that sweet loan forgiveness.

(Talking about "most litigators," who don't actually end up in obscure midlaw.)

[Anonymous User]

prostitution

well, shitty midlaw. not pryor cashman or whatever, worse

but that is the fate of most litigators. start at V10, V50, V100, end up in obscure midlaw

on the other hand, do corporate and the world is your oyster, and you can keep "lateralling" up and eventually go in-house or whatever

(idk whether graduating 350,000 in debt at 7% interest, and getting paid 190,000ish to do obscure midlaw is a good outcome. I guess you'll be in the green eventually.)

190K is a damn good salary for midlaw if you’re talking first year. A lot of midlaw starts around 110K which a massive paycut.

[Anonymous User]

prostitution

well, shitty midlaw. not pryor cashman or whatever, worse

but that is the fate of most litigators. start at V10, V50, V100, end up in obscure midlaw

on the other hand, do corporate and the world is your oyster, and you can keep "lateralling" up and eventually go in-house or whatever

(idk whether graduating 350,000 in debt at 7% interest, and getting paid 190,000ish to do obscure midlaw is a good outcome. I guess you'll be in the green eventually.)

No one should be graduating 350k in debt. How is that even possible, like sticker at Columbia and you didn't get reasonable housing or something?

[Anonymous User]

prostitution

well, shitty midlaw. not pryor cashman or whatever, worse

but that is the fate of most litigators. start at V10, V50, V100, end up in obscure midlaw

on the other hand, do corporate and the world is your oyster, and you can keep "lateralling" up and eventually go in-house or whatever

(idk whether graduating 350,000 in debt at 7% interest, and getting paid 190,000ish to do obscure midlaw is a good outcome. I guess you'll be in the green eventually.)

No one should be graduating 350k in debt. How is that even possible, like sticker at Columbia and you didn't get reasonable housing or something?

DoorDash, bar tabs, Uber, vacations … after all, they’re gonna be making infinite biglaw cash soon …

[Anonymous User]

to give you a serious answer, im an SLS grad towards bottom of class (at least I'm assuming, I averaged an H a quarter). I was able to get plenty of v10 offers in multiple markets but ended up going with a "less prestigious" firm that fit my goals/interests more. The "top firms" that fit my interests were probably a bit out of reach, but all worked out regardless.

[Anonymous User]

to give you a serious answer, im an SLS grad towards bottom of class (at least I'm assuming, I averaged an H a quarter). I was able to get plenty of v10 offers in multiple markets but ended up going with a "less prestigious" firm that fit my goals/interests more. The "top firms" that fit my interests were probably a bit out of reach, but all worked out regardless.

people don't usually say T6 and mean HYS, and surely your outcome is not representative of the bottom of the class at NYU or Penn

[Anonymous User]

to give you a serious answer, im an SLS grad towards bottom of class (at least I'm assuming, I averaged an H a quarter). I was able to get plenty of v10 offers in multiple markets but ended up going with a "less prestigious" firm that fit my goals/interests more. The "top firms" that fit my interests were probably a bit out of reach, but all worked out regardless.

What on earth are you talking about? H a quarter is like just somewhat below median for 1L. 4-5 Hs is median and there certainly are people who go straight Ps (imo it’s more than you’d think).

If you’re talking about across the whole period… I guess? Idk so many people slack off in 2/3L that it’s probably hard to figure out what quartile you’re in.

[Anonymous User]

At Penn, they end up at, like, Cadwalader. At least when things were good. Not sure what'll happen this year.

[Anonymous User]

prostitution

well, shitty midlaw. not pryor cashman or whatever, worse

but that is the fate of most litigators. start at V10, V50, V100, end up in obscure midlaw

on the other hand, do corporate and the world is your oyster, and you can keep "lateralling" up and eventually go in-house or whatever

(idk whether graduating 350,000 in debt at 7% interest, and getting paid 190,000ish to do obscure midlaw is a good outcome. I guess you'll be in the green eventually.)

That's kind of me, lol. Well, I went to a T13 and had mediocre grades. $145k in student loans. Was a bad interviewer and then had some bad Covid luck. My firm is probably considered "midlaw," but I don't entirely know what's considered "midlaw" these days. We're not V100. I'm in my second year and am $25k away from a positive net worth. I got a "bad" outcome relative to my peers in law school but I'm still bringing home $200k a year after bonus.

[Anonymous User]

This site is too focused on grades. Look at the Penn law PEP forum with plenty of ‘24 students striking out at law firms. Bad outcomes don’t necessarily revolve around grades now that the formal OCI process is dead.

[Anonymous User]

This site is too focused on grades. Look at the Penn law PEP forum with plenty of ‘24 students striking out at law firms. Bad outcomes don’t necessarily revolve around grades now that the formal OCI process is dead.

Totally agree. Grades matter but they matter significantly less than people here think. I just graduated and I had three V10 lit offers at around median (non-URM) from a non-HYS T10. I had good work experience and I’m a strong interviewer. Many of my friends had similar outcomes too.

[Anonymous User]

to give you a serious answer, im an SLS grad towards bottom of class (at least I'm assuming, I averaged an H a quarter). I was able to get plenty of v10 offers in multiple markets but ended up going with a "less prestigious" firm that fit my goals/interests more. The "top firms" that fit my interests were probably a bit out of reach, but all worked out regardless.

What on earth are you talking about? H a quarter is like just somewhat below median for 1L. 4-5 Hs is median and there certainly are people who go straight Ps (imo it’s more than you’d think).

If you’re talking about across the whole period… I guess? Idk so many people slack off in 2/3L that it’s probably hard to figure out what quartile you’re in.

I was talking about the whole period. Less effort but somehow grades slightly improved 2l/3l year.

[Anonymous User]

This site is too focused on grades. Look at the Penn law PEP forum with plenty of ‘24 students striking out at law firms. Bad outcomes don’t necessarily revolve around grades now that the formal OCI process is dead.

Totally agree. Grades matter but they matter significantly less than people here think. I just graduated and I had three V10 lit offers at around median (non-URM) from a non-HYS T10. I had good work experience and I’m a strong interviewer. Many of my friends had similar outcomes too.

If you just graduated, you recruited in the best cycle in recent years and should not extrapolate from your experience. It’s wrong to suggest no one missed BL from T6 schools but correct to say it isn’t necessarily the bottom 5 in the class.

[Anonymous User]

This site is too focused on grades. Look at the Penn law PEP forum with plenty of ‘24 students striking out at law firms. Bad outcomes don’t necessarily revolve around grades now that the formal OCI process is dead.

‘24s are rising 3Ls, right? That’s kind of a weird demographic to use as evidence of striking out and it’s too early for rising 2Ls to say they’re striking out.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

prostitution

well, shitty midlaw. not pryor cashman or whatever, worse

but that is the fate of most litigators. start at V10, V50, V100, end up in obscure midlaw

on the other hand, do corporate and the world is your oyster, and you can keep "lateralling" up and eventually go in-house or whatever

(idk whether graduating 350,000 in debt at 7% interest, and getting paid 190,000ish to do obscure midlaw is a good outcome. I guess you'll be in the green eventually.)

No one should be graduating 350k in debt. How is that even possible, like sticker at Columbia and you didn't get reasonable housing or something?

Total COA at Columbia is $118k next year.

[Anonymous User]

prostitution

well, shitty midlaw. not pryor cashman or whatever, worse

but that is the fate of most litigators. start at V10, V50, V100, end up in obscure midlaw

on the other hand, do corporate and the world is your oyster, and you can keep "lateralling" up and eventually go in-house or whatever

(idk whether graduating 350,000 in debt at 7% interest, and getting paid 190,000ish to do obscure midlaw is a good outcome. I guess you'll be in the green eventually.)

No one should be graduating 350k in debt. How is that even possible, like sticker at Columbia and you didn't get reasonable housing or something?

Total COA at Columbia is $118k next year.

That is absolutely insane. Why are prices rising this much for education? It's far outpacing inflation and it's substantially more expensive then it was only a couple of decades ago.

[Anonymous User]

prostitution

well, shitty midlaw. not pryor cashman or whatever, worse

but that is the fate of most litigators. start at V10, V50, V100, end up in obscure midlaw

on the other hand, do corporate and the world is your oyster, and you can keep "lateralling" up and eventually go in-house or whatever

(idk whether graduating 350,000 in debt at 7% interest, and getting paid 190,000ish to do obscure midlaw is a good outcome. I guess you'll be in the green eventually.)

No one should be graduating 350k in debt. How is that even possible, like sticker at Columbia and you didn't get reasonable housing or something?

Total COA at Columbia is $118k next year.

That is absolutely insane. Why are prices rising this much for education? It's far outpacing inflation and it's substantially more expensive then it was only a couple of decades ago.

Because easy access to federal loans means it can. Have you been under a rock? This isn't news. When I graduated from my (state) law school 12 years ago, in-state tuition was something like $21-24k (can't remember exactly). Ten years before I graduated, it was $10-12k. It's currently $34k. And that's just tuition, in-state at a state school - not total COA (the school's current estimate for total COA is $60k. It's a lot less than Columbia, but it's a public school, in a less expensive metro, and it's still gone up way beyond inflation in the last 20-25 years).

My state school at least has the excuse that state funding has absolutely tanked over those decades as well, so soaking professional school students for tuition (paid for by federal loans) is a way to fund the rest of the campus. The economics at Columbia are going to be quite different, but it's a trend that's occurred across all of higher education.

[Anonymous User]

prostitution

well, shitty midlaw. not pryor cashman or whatever, worse

but that is the fate of most litigators. start at V10, V50, V100, end up in obscure midlaw

on the other hand, do corporate and the world is your oyster, and you can keep "lateralling" up and eventually go in-house or whatever

(idk whether graduating 350,000 in debt at 7% interest, and getting paid 190,000ish to do obscure midlaw is a good outcome. I guess you'll be in the green eventually.)

No one should be graduating 350k in debt. How is that even possible, like sticker at Columbia and you didn't get reasonable housing or something?

Total COA at Columbia is $118k next year.

That is absolutely insane. Why are prices rising this much for education? It's far outpacing inflation and it's substantially more expensive then it was only a couple of decades ago.

First off, I agree. That said, it looks like CLS has made bigger relative increases for the past few years to housing/personal expenses as a portion of total COA. Still insane, sure, but it's helpful to up the total limit on what you can borrow for students without parental support and/or going into LRAP since living costs have indeed been going up. Not everyone needs to take out the full amount so there's no reason not to tie the listed housing/personal costs to real inflation (or even raise a little above inflation). Still, I agree that it's absurd and I'm not sure how they can justify the tuition hikes even if relatively smaller as a percentage.