Why is there so much hate for Quinn Emanuel? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Title says it all.

For individuals coming off a clerkship (or two), they offer 125k/150k bonuses--well above market. This seems like a pretty good reason to go there in the short-term, even if you know it's not the firm for you in the long-term.

[Anonymous User]

For me, I think they try to be something they are not.

They act like associate compensation is great but they have high billable requirements for bonus compared to other big firms.

They act like they care more about associate development than other firms but as far as I can tell, the associates there don't get any more (or less) experience than any other big law shop.

Basically, they are a regular litigation big law firm (and that's totally OK) but pretend like they aren't.

[Anonymous User]

I think they're really just clinging to what they used to be. They used to be a lit boutique that regularly went to trial. Now they're basically just a big law firm's litigation department. I still think it's a good place for a junior litigator but you're not going to get the early career experience you would at a real high end boutique.

[Anonymous User]

I don't hate Quinn Emanuel. Best place for a commercial litigator (with the exception of Cravath perhaps)

[Anonymous User]

They are also a PITA on the other side of the v. I get that people want to be zealous advocates, but IME more QE attorneys conflate that with being an ass to opposing counsel. That said, QE does mostly plaintiff side work (especially in my field), and they have that in common with lots of other exclusively P side shops.

[Anonymous User]

I used to work at QE and like to weigh in on these threads from time to time.

I don't hate them, and I don't really think most lawyers in the world hate them, but they do seem to have a negative rep with some people on this forum.

Part of this, which IMO is unfair, is I guess directed at the experience people have had with specific people at the firm. (Like the guy in this thread saying QE lawyers are rude to opposing counsel). I think that's unfair because every firm is made up of people working in different practice areas with different personal temperaments and approaches to opposing counsel.

What's fair would be talking about firm policies and things like that. My view on those is this: the firm actually is somewhat different from other firms in its internal culture and approach to policies. It's very geared to just letting lawyers do their jobs and not have to sit on committees; specifically, JBQ just makes decisions on this stuff and it results in some interesting policies (remote being permissible, the travel/vacation perks). The negatives here are that they have a billable hour minimum that's higher than most peer firms, and IMO it's fair to criticize this. Leadership would probably argue that their lack of friction and administrative duties eliminates any difference, which perhaps is partly true, but IMO I still dislike the 2100 hour minimum QE has. Otherwise, I liked the firm and am generally supportive of it -- though I don't want to work in biglaw in general anymore.

[Wild Card]

they brag about wearing tshirts and flipflops but work brutally hard

every quinn associate looks like s/he's about to die

[Anonymous User]

They advertise themselves on their landing page that they are the "scariest" firm and that other firms are "afraid" if them. No other (biglaw) firm acts that way. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. The reputation is not only well deserved but worn with pride.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

All of these responses are fair enough--there's certainly something funny/a little lame about the branding.

But from an associate's perspective: Why shouldn't a clerk go to work there for two years and make 80k+ more than they would at another firm? Yes, there's a two-year clawback, and yes, you have to work 100 extra hours to meet bonus. But it still adds up to 40k extra per year if you stay for two years over a comparable firm.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

All of these responses are fair enough--there's certainly something funny/a little lame about the branding.

But from an associate's perspective: Why shouldn't a clerk go to work there for two years and make 80k+ more than they would at another firm? Yes, there's a two-year clawback, and yes, you have to work 100 extra hours to meet bonus. But it still adds up to 40k extra per year if you stay for two years over a comparable firm.

Those are big assumptions though. Maybe you don’t hit bonus where you would have at a 1800 or no-hours requirement firm. Maybe you’re more likely to work 2400 at Quinn when you would’ve only done 2000 somewhere else and the extra bonus just isn’t worth that. Maybe you don’t take such a short term, transactional view of joining a firm and actually hope to stick around for awhile at a place where you’re more likely to make partner and they have a more traditional culture where everyone isn’t worked to the bone.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

All of these responses are fair enough--there's certainly something funny/a little lame about the branding.

But from an associate's perspective: Why shouldn't a clerk go to work there for two years and make 80k+ more than they would at another firm? Yes, there's a two-year clawback, and yes, you have to work 100 extra hours to meet bonus. But it still adds up to 40k extra per year if you stay for two years over a comparable firm.

They have a two-year clawback on bonuses? Jesus

[Anonymous User]

OP I don't understand what you're trying to find. You want to work there, work there. Make your cost benefit analysis and decide. You seem to want people to validate it and not say anything bad about the firm but that's just not going to happen.

[Anonymous User]

I think they're really just clinging to what they used to be. They used to be a lit boutique that regularly went to trial. Now they're basically just a big law firm's litigation department. I still think it's a good place for a junior litigator but you're not going to get the early career experience you would at a real high end boutique.

They objectively aren’t just like a biglaw litigation department for two big reasons. First, unlike other firms where corporate is king, lit is literally the only practice for Quinn. Second, they do plaintiff’s work.

[Anonymous User]

I think they're really just clinging to what they used to be. They used to be a lit boutique that regularly went to trial. Now they're basically just a big law firm's litigation department. I still think it's a good place for a junior litigator but you're not going to get the early career experience you would at a real high end boutique.

They objectively aren’t just like a biglaw litigation department for two big reasons. First, unlike other firms where corporate is king, lit is literally the only practice for Quinn. Second, they do plaintiff’s work.

Also, this 2100 thing is overblown. If you are under by a couple hundred, I believe it goes as low as 1900, you get like 70% bonus. If you are over, 2400, you get more than market. Also, you can count things like the "marketing project," which is 20 hours there. You can count going to trial through their advocacy program, which is additional hours, for shadowing a trial. Also, lets not forget, litigation hours arrrre way easier to bill than corporate hours. I would know, I've billed both.

[Anonymous User]

Part of this, which IMO is unfair, is I guess directed at the experience people have had with specific people at the firm. (Like the guy in this thread saying QE lawyers are rude to opposing counsel). I think that's unfair because every firm is made up of people working in different practice areas with different personal temperaments and approaches to opposing counsel.

It's not unfair at all. If this type of opinion is dictated by experience with individual lawyers (true), and more people say QE attorneys are a PITA to litigate against (which you don't deny), then it stands to reason that on average a QE lawyer is more likely to be an ass than lawyers at other firms. Just because my (and others') personal experience cannot prove ALL QE lawyers to be jerks doesn't mean that our experiences are irrelevant or can't prove a trend. You don't offer any other explanation as to why QE, of all the biglaw firms, seems to have this reputation.

[Anonymous User]

I don't hate Quinn Emanuel. Best place for a commercial litigator (with the exception of Cravath perhaps)

The idea that either are the best place to be a commercial litigator, period, is absurd. They can’t match the real boutiques if you want that sort of environment, and if you want a more conventional biglaw experience, lots of good firms don’t have “we brutalize our associates” as their “thing.” Most people would be much happier at like Jenner & Block.

[Anonymous User]

I don't hate Quinn Emanuel. Best place for a commercial litigator (with the exception of Cravath perhaps)

The idea that either are the best place to be a commercial litigator, period, is absurd. They can’t match the real boutiques if you want that sort of environment, and if you want a more conventional biglaw experience, lots of good firms don’t have “we brutalize our associates” as their “thing.” Most people would be much happier at like Jenner & Block.

OP here. That makes sense to me. So even though Quinn requires only 100 hours above the standard 2000-hour floor to make bonus, folks regularly are expected to work well above that?

[Anonymous User]

Part of this, which IMO is unfair, is I guess directed at the experience people have had with specific people at the firm. (Like the guy in this thread saying QE lawyers are rude to opposing counsel). I think that's unfair because every firm is made up of people working in different practice areas with different personal temperaments and approaches to opposing counsel.

It's not unfair at all. If this type of opinion is dictated by experience with individual lawyers (true), and more people say QE attorneys are a PITA to litigate against (which you don't deny), then it stands to reason that on average a QE lawyer is more likely to be an ass than lawyers at other firms. Just because my (and others') personal experience cannot prove ALL QE lawyers to be jerks doesn't mean that our experiences are irrelevant or can't prove a trend. You don't offer any other explanation as to why QE, of all the biglaw firms, seems to have this reputation.

I worked there and there are a lot of nice people, and my experience was not that people there are more ruder than people at other firms. There certainly are assholes -- of different types -- there, but in my experience, which I think is more valid than yours given I actually worked there, is that this is an unfair allegation.

[Anonymous User]

I don't hate Quinn Emanuel. Best place for a commercial litigator (with the exception of Cravath perhaps)

The idea that either are the best place to be a commercial litigator, period, is absurd. They can’t match the real boutiques if you want that sort of environment, and if you want a more conventional biglaw experience, lots of good firms don’t have “we brutalize our associates” as their “thing.” Most people would be much happier at like Jenner & Block.

OP here. That makes sense to me. So even though Quinn requires only 100 hours above the standard 2000-hour floor to make bonus, folks regularly are expected to work well above that?

Eh, the expectation to work is mostly self-imposed. You will not get in trouble and no one will have a talking to you if you work 2100 at QE. I imagine you probably won't make partner.

[Anonymous User]

I don't hate Quinn Emanuel. Best place for a commercial litigator (with the exception of Cravath perhaps)

The idea that either are the best place to be a commercial litigator, period, is absurd. They can’t match the real boutiques if you want that sort of environment, and if you want a more conventional biglaw experience, lots of good firms don’t have “we brutalize our associates” as their “thing.” Most people would be much happier at like Jenner & Block.

This gave me a good laugh. Cravath's commercial litigation practice is widely considered among the best in the country. Then add in the fact that they're the most prestigious firm in NYC and have among the best exit options

[Anonymous User]

I don't hate Quinn Emanuel. Best place for a commercial litigator (with the exception of Cravath perhaps)

The idea that either are the best place to be a commercial litigator, period, is absurd. They can’t match the real boutiques if you want that sort of environment, and if you want a more conventional biglaw experience, lots of good firms don’t have “we brutalize our associates” as their “thing.” Most people would be much happier at like Jenner & Block.

This gave me a good laugh. Cravath's commercial litigation practice is widely considered among the best in the country. Then add in the fact that they're the most prestigious firm in NYC and have among the best exit options

Cravath isn’t exceptional in anything versus its peer firms anymore, but it especially isn’t exceptional in lit—boutiques and the top DC firms attract significantly higher-caliber talent than any of the New York white-shoe firms.

[Anonymous User]

I don't hate Quinn Emanuel. Best place for a commercial litigator (with the exception of Cravath perhaps)

The idea that either are the best place to be a commercial litigator, period, is absurd. They can’t match the real boutiques if you want that sort of environment, and if you want a more conventional biglaw experience, lots of good firms don’t have “we brutalize our associates” as their “thing.” Most people would be much happier at like Jenner & Block.

This gave me a good laugh. Cravath's commercial litigation practice is widely considered among the best in the country. Then add in the fact that they're the most prestigious firm in NYC and have among the best exit options

Cravath isn’t exceptional in anything versus its peer firms anymore, but it especially isn’t exceptional in lit—boutiques and the top DC firms attract significantly higher-caliber talent than any of the New York white-shoe firms.

Basically no one who actually wants to litigate goes into NYC biglaw period anymore.

[Anonymous User]

I don't hate Quinn Emanuel. Best place for a commercial litigator (with the exception of Cravath perhaps)

The idea that either are the best place to be a commercial litigator, period, is absurd. They can’t match the real boutiques if you want that sort of environment, and if you want a more conventional biglaw experience, lots of good firms don’t have “we brutalize our associates” as their “thing.” Most people would be much happier at like Jenner & Block.

This gave me a good laugh. Cravath's commercial litigation practice is widely considered among the best in the country. Then add in the fact that they're the most prestigious firm in NYC and have among the best exit options

Cravath isn’t exceptional in anything versus its peer firms anymore, but it especially isn’t exceptional in lit—boutiques and the top DC firms attract significantly higher-caliber talent than any of the New York white-shoe firms.

Here you go: https://chambers.com/legal-rankings/lit ... 51:12806:1

I think your view is out of step with the views of most practicing attorneys, btw

[Anonymous User]

I don't hate Quinn Emanuel. Best place for a commercial litigator (with the exception of Cravath perhaps)

The idea that either are the best place to be a commercial litigator, period, is absurd. They can’t match the real boutiques if you want that sort of environment, and if you want a more conventional biglaw experience, lots of good firms don’t have “we brutalize our associates” as their “thing.” Most people would be much happier at like Jenner & Block.

This gave me a good laugh. Cravath's commercial litigation practice is widely considered among the best in the country. Then add in the fact that they're the most prestigious firm in NYC and have among the best exit options

Cravath isn’t exceptional in anything versus its peer firms anymore, but it especially isn’t exceptional in lit—boutiques and the top DC firms attract significantly higher-caliber talent than any of the New York white-shoe firms.

Here you go: https://chambers.com/legal-rankings/lit ... 51:12806:1

I think your view is out of step with the views of most practicing attorneys, btw

Compare some Cravath associates with Susman’s, Kellogg’s or Bartlit’s, it’s not even close. It’s not unique to Cravath, which is near the top of the market *for a conventional NYC biglaw firm*—it’s just that in lit people who can work anywhere generally don’t work in conventional NYC biglaw and haven’t for quite a while, as another poster noted.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Also, this 2100 thing is overblown. If you are under by a couple hundred, I believe it goes as low as 1900, you get like 70% bonus. If you are over, 2400, you get more than market. Also, you can count things like the "marketing project," which is 20 hours there. You can count going to trial through their advocacy program, which is additional hours, for shadowing a trial. Also, lets not forget, litigation hours arrrre way easier to bill than corporate hours. I would know, I've billed both.

This compares very poorly to even most firms with minimums.

They are *by far* the richest firm with that restrictive of a bonus payment. It's a huge negative outlier.