Columbia Litigation placement Forum

[Anonymous User]

How good is Columbia for litigation in DC / NYC? Understand culture is mostly corporate but I like the school more broadly. Debating whether to go there

[Anonymous User]

New York: Good.

DC: Not so good. Better to be at UVA/GULC/HYS.

[Anonymous User]

For DC, it really depends on grades, law review, etc. NY is a little more forgiving. S&C, for example, usually takes a lot of students with Stone/Kent.

DC isn’t a given. Law review, a clerkship, and clear personal/professional reasons to be in DC help. But I know people with stellar credentials who struck out or close to it.

Doing a specialized moot court may help you stand out on the litigation front and give you something to talk about in interviews.

[Anonymous User]

For S&C NY, you need roughly a 3.65

You need at least Stone to be competitive for NY litigation.

[Anonymous User]

Would this be true of pretty much every non HYS T14? Regardless of which school, have to perform well to be competitive for lit right?

[jbagelboy]

For S&C NY, you need roughly a 3.65

You need at least Stone to be competitive for NY litigation.

This is ridiculous trolling. Bottom of the class can get NYC “litigation.” There is not a significant difference in grade requirements for hiring between litigation and corporate. S&C also draws down to low Stone.

Stone and above is helpful for DC generally, but it is insane to suggest that a student at somewhere like GULC has better odds all else equal at any DC firm than a CLS student with the same grades.

[Anonymous User]

New York: Good.

DC: Not so good. Better to be at UVA/GULC/HYS.

CLS grad who worked as a litigator at one of W&C/WH/Covington in DC. Obviously it is easier to get from HYS, and DC is more competitive than NYC (where anyone in the class can get biglaw if they interview OK), but hard disagree that it is better to be at “UVA/GULC.” Lots of Columbia grads are at DC firms doing litigation, and there is variation below the most selective firms for people with middling grades who are committed to the DC market.

[Anonymous User]

New York: Good.

DC: Not so good. Better to be at UVA/GULC/HYS.

CLS grad who worked as a litigator at one of W&C/WH/Covington in DC. Obviously it is easier to get from HYS, and DC is more competitive than NYC (where anyone in the class can get biglaw if they interview OK), but hard disagree that it is better to be at “UVA/GULC.” Lots of Columbia grads are at DC firms doing litigation, and there is variation below the most selective firms for people with middling grades who are committed to the DC market.

Much better to be at UVA for DC. GULC is better only if you have high grades at both.

[Anonymous User]

For S&C NY, you need roughly a 3.65

You need at least Stone to be competitive for NY litigation.

This is ridiculous trolling. Bottom of the class can get NYC “litigation.” There is not a significant difference in grade requirements for hiring between litigation and corporate. S&C also draws down to low Stone.

Stone and above is helpful for DC generally, but it is insane to suggest that a student at somewhere like GULC has better odds all else equal at any DC firm than a CLS student with the same grades.

S&C requires what averages out to better than top 1/3 grades at HLS so i have to imagine its higher than low stone

[CLS2023A]

The common wisdom I received was that S&C needed 3.5ish and above (higher than low Stone, which starts at 3.41...)

[jbagelboy]

For S&C NY, you need roughly a 3.65

You need at least Stone to be competitive for NY litigation.

This is ridiculous trolling. Bottom of the class can get NYC “litigation.” There is not a significant difference in grade requirements for hiring between litigation and corporate. S&C also draws down to low Stone.

Stone and above is helpful for DC generally, but it is insane to suggest that a student at somewhere like GULC has better odds all else equal at any DC firm than a CLS student with the same grades.

S&C requires what averages out to better than top 1/3 grades at HLS so i have to imagine its higher than low stone

I’d say they probably target at least top 1/3 at CLS as well, which is closer to 3.5+ as another poster suggested, not 3.65+.

[Anonymous User]

For S&C NY, you need roughly a 3.65

You need at least Stone to be competitive for NY litigation.

This is ridiculous trolling. Bottom of the class can get NYC “litigation.” There is not a significant difference in grade requirements for hiring between litigation and corporate. S&C also draws down to low Stone.

Stone and above is helpful for DC generally, but it is insane to suggest that a student at somewhere like GULC has better odds all else equal at any DC firm than a CLS student with the same grades.

S&C requires what averages out to better than top 1/3 grades at HLS so i have to imagine its higher than low stone

I’d say they probably target at least top 1/3 at CLS as well, which is closer to 3.5+ as another poster suggested, not 3.65+.

I might just not know where CLS's percentiles sit because Stone/Kent is a nonsense fucking divide

[Anonymous User]

For S&C NY, you need roughly a 3.65

You need at least Stone to be competitive for NY litigation.

This is ridiculous trolling. Bottom of the class can get NYC “litigation.” There is not a significant difference in grade requirements for hiring between litigation and corporate. S&C also draws down to low Stone.

Stone and above is helpful for DC generally, but it is insane to suggest that a student at somewhere like GULC has better odds all else equal at any DC firm than a CLS student with the same grades.

S&C requires what averages out to better than top 1/3 grades at HLS so i have to imagine its higher than low stone

I’d say they probably target at least top 1/3 at CLS as well, which is closer to 3.5+ as another poster suggested, not 3.65+.

This somewhat tracks with the Penn to S&C pipeline. You need about a 3.7 from Penn as a white person to get S&C NYC.

[Anonymous User]

For S&C NY, you need roughly a 3.65

You need at least Stone to be competitive for NY litigation.

This is ridiculous trolling. Bottom of the class can get NYC “litigation.” There is not a significant difference in grade requirements for hiring between litigation and corporate. S&C also draws down to low Stone.

Stone and above is helpful for DC generally, but it is insane to suggest that a student at somewhere like GULC has better odds all else equal at any DC firm than a CLS student with the same grades.

S&C requires what averages out to better than top 1/3 grades at HLS so i have to imagine its higher than low stone

I’d say they probably target at least top 1/3 at CLS as well, which is closer to 3.5+ as another poster suggested, not 3.65+.

This somewhat tracks with the Penn to S&C pipeline. You need about a 3.7 from Penn as a white person to get S&C NYC.

I wish OCI stats were broken out URM/not

[Anonymous User]

No concerns about big law lit placement at CLS. Lots of people go in to lit in both markets, the top firms hire fairly extensively from CLS, etc.

DC is a little tougher than NY, but lots of CLS folks end up in DC. I do think demonstrated DC interest can help.

[Anonymous User]

For S&C NY, you need roughly a 3.65

You need at least Stone to be competitive for NY litigation.

This is ridiculous trolling. Bottom of the class can get NYC “litigation.” There is not a significant difference in grade requirements for hiring between litigation and corporate. S&C also draws down to low Stone.

Stone and above is helpful for DC generally, but it is insane to suggest that a student at somewhere like GULC has better odds all else equal at any DC firm than a CLS student with the same grades.

S&C requires what averages out to better than top 1/3 grades at HLS so i have to imagine its higher than low stone

I’d say they probably target at least top 1/3 at CLS as well, which is closer to 3.5+ as another poster suggested, not 3.65+.

This somewhat tracks with the Penn to S&C pipeline. You need about a 3.7 from Penn as a white person to get S&C NYC.

I wish OCI stats were broken out URM/not

It's ridiculous when they don't when there is a huge disparity for URM and nonURM recruiting

[Anonymous User]

It's ridiculous when they don't when there is a huge disparity for URM and nonURM recruiting

Not wanting to show that is probably exactly why they don’t break it out.

[Anonymous User]

It's ridiculous when they don't when there is a huge disparity for URM and nonURM recruiting

Not wanting to show that is probably exactly why they don’t break it out.

At the same time, it's always been roughly that high for that group. Just because they are letting other people in with other stats doesn't really change anything. It's always required tippy top grades.

[Anonymous User]

It's ridiculous when they don't when there is a huge disparity for URM and nonURM recruiting

Not wanting to show that is probably exactly why they don’t break it out.

At the same time, it's always been roughly that high for that group. Just because they are letting other people in with other stats doesn't really change anything. It's always required tippy top grades.

The above posters are pointing out that including URMs in average/median school stats makes it seem like the cutoffs are lower.

[Anonymous User]

New York: Good.

DC: Not so good. Better to be at UVA/GULC/HYS.

CLS grad who worked as a litigator at one of W&C/WH/Covington in DC. Obviously it is easier to get from HYS, and DC is more competitive than NYC (where anyone in the class can get biglaw if they interview OK), but hard disagree that it is better to be at “UVA/GULC.” Lots of Columbia grads are at DC firms doing litigation, and there is variation below the most selective firms for people with middling grades who are committed to the DC market.

Much better to be at UVA for DC. GULC is better only if you have high grades at both.

What is the GPA floor difference for DC between CLS/UVA/GULC?

[Anonymous User]

New York: Good.

DC: Not so good. Better to be at UVA/GULC/HYS.

CLS grad who worked as a litigator at one of W&C/WH/Covington in DC. Obviously it is easier to get from HYS, and DC is more competitive than NYC (where anyone in the class can get biglaw if they interview OK), but hard disagree that it is better to be at “UVA/GULC.” Lots of Columbia grads are at DC firms doing litigation, and there is variation below the most selective firms for people with middling grades who are committed to the DC market.

Much better to be at UVA for DC. GULC is better only if you have high grades at both.

What is the GPA floor difference for DC between CLS/UVA/GULC?

IMO it's not that simple. UVA/GULC students are also more likely to be clued into nuances of the market and pursue big DC practice areas rather than showing up saying they're interested in litigation or transactional generally.

[Anonymous User]

New York: Good.

DC: Not so good. Better to be at UVA/GULC/HYS.

CLS grad who worked as a litigator at one of W&C/WH/Covington in DC. Obviously it is easier to get from HYS, and DC is more competitive than NYC (where anyone in the class can get biglaw if they interview OK), but hard disagree that it is better to be at “UVA/GULC.” Lots of Columbia grads are at DC firms doing litigation, and there is variation below the most selective firms for people with middling grades who are committed to the DC market.

Much better to be at UVA for DC. GULC is better only if you have high grades at both.

Experiences vary but which firms are you all at? Understand there aren’t many CLS litigators in DC but why hide behind three firms?

The ABA stats are more than a little slanted away from CLS:

2022 graduates going to DC:

Gtown: 260
UVA: 88
CLS: 27

2022 graduates going to NYC:

CLS: 299
Gtown: 170
UVA: 64

Yeah, Gtown is bigger and 2022 was a good year but this trend happens decades after decade.

[Anonymous User]

New York: Good.

DC: Not so good. Better to be at UVA/GULC/HYS.

CLS grad who worked as a litigator at one of W&C/WH/Covington in DC. Obviously it is easier to get from HYS, and DC is more competitive than NYC (where anyone in the class can get biglaw if they interview OK), but hard disagree that it is better to be at “UVA/GULC.” Lots of Columbia grads are at DC firms doing litigation, and there is variation below the most selective firms for people with middling grades who are committed to the DC market.

Much better to be at UVA for DC. GULC is better only if you have high grades at both.

Experiences vary but which firms are you all at? Understand there aren’t many CLS litigators in DC but why hide behind three firms?

The ABA stats are more than a little slanted away from CLS:

2022 graduates going to DC:

Gtown: 260
UVA: 88
CLS: 27

2022 graduates going to NYC:

CLS: 299
Gtown: 170
UVA: 64

Yeah, Gtown is bigger and 2022 was a good year but this trend happens decades after decade.

I’m the poster who I’m assuming this is responding to. The raw number of people who are working in that market is not correlated to the odds of landing a job in large firm litigation in that market. By your reasoning, GULC would also substantially out-punch YLS and Stanford. Moreover, the ABA data does not tell us which of those GULC grads obtained offers at DC firms, only that they stuck around in a legal position in some capacity.

I’m not sure what you think I am “hiding behind,” but to make it expressly clear and at the risk of being somewhat pedantic, I included the fact that I worked (and participated in recruiting at) one of the more selective DC firms because I can extrapolate from that experience what hiring looks like and how these schools are perceived relative to each other at firms generally. And I’m telling you, from the anecdotal yet broad experience of myself and my peers, elite DC firms will dig deeper into the class at somewhere like Columbia than at Georgetown. I’ve been in the position of comparing resumes and transcripts from the schools side by side. That’s what we’re talking about when we are comparing which school makes it “easier” to get DC.

[Anonymous User]

New York: Good.

DC: Not so good. Better to be at UVA/GULC/HYS.

CLS grad who worked as a litigator at one of W&C/WH/Covington in DC. Obviously it is easier to get from HYS, and DC is more competitive than NYC (where anyone in the class can get biglaw if they interview OK), but hard disagree that it is better to be at “UVA/GULC.” Lots of Columbia grads are at DC firms doing litigation, and there is variation below the most selective firms for people with middling grades who are committed to the DC market.

Much better to be at UVA for DC. GULC is better only if you have high grades at both.

Experiences vary but which firms are you all at? Understand there aren’t many CLS litigators in DC but why hide behind three firms?

The ABA stats are more than a little slanted away from CLS:

2022 graduates going to DC:

Gtown: 260
UVA: 88
CLS: 27

2022 graduates going to NYC:

CLS: 299
Gtown: 170
UVA: 64

Yeah, Gtown is bigger and 2022 was a good year but this trend happens decades after decade.

I’m the poster who I’m assuming this is responding to. The raw number of people who are working in that market is not correlated to the odds of landing a job in large firm litigation in that market. By your reasoning, GULC would also substantially out-punch YLS and Stanford. Moreover, the ABA data does not tell us which of those GULC grads obtained offers at DC firms, only that they stuck around in a legal position in some capacity.

I’m not sure what you think I am “hiding behind,” but to make it expressly clear and at the risk of being somewhat pedantic, I included the fact that I worked (and participated in recruiting at) one of the more selective DC firms because I can extrapolate from that experience what hiring looks like and how these schools are perceived relative to each other at firms generally. And I’m telling you, from the anecdotal yet broad experience of myself and my peers, elite DC firms will dig deeper into the class at somewhere like Columbia than at Georgetown. I’ve been in the position of comparing resumes and transcripts from the schools side by side. That’s what we’re talking about when we are comparing which school makes it “easier” to get DC.

From a current 2L at a T6 (pre-whatever the new rankings are), I faced significant skepticism from lower to mid ranked firms in DC as an out-of-town law student with good grades but without a specific interest in, for example, international trade law. I don't think it's easier to get Wilmer DC from GULC than CLS, but I do think it's easier for a GULC student to get a spot a a smaller, lower-ranked office that only has 5-10 summers in DC. Those firms seem to focus on local schools for DC. The question was not centered on "elite" firms but litigation in DC broadly, and some people have geographic preferences where they would prefer any DC firm over higher ranked NY firms.

[Anonymous User]

How does Chicago compare to Columbia for DC litigation? Would getting a federal clerkship vastly improve hireability for this market?