At what point do you get out? Forum

[liebs378]

Title says it all but at what point do you start really looking to jump ship from the big law train?

6th year in NYC big law in corporate. Do you keep collecting the paycheck until they push you out or make partner or do you preemptively start looking at other options? Not necessary miserable or burnt out but more so just accustomed to the grind and no longer phased by it. However, who wants to keep that up forever? 10 or 20 more years of that sounds exhausting. Most of my class year is gone by now and I'm not "gunning" for partner. More so of the mindset that if it happens it happens with the realization that the winner of the pie eating contest just gets more pie. Pay is NYC biglaw so realistically no other options would touch what we're at now. Do we just keep riding things out collecting the paycheck until they force your hand or do you preemptively start looking to go in-house? At what point though do you become so senior that you're then limited? Who wants to hire a 8th or 9th year associate as a corporate counsel?

Welcome all thoughts.

[Anonymous User]

Title says it all but at what point do you start really looking to jump ship from the big law train?

6th year in NYC big law in corporate. Do you keep collecting the paycheck until they push you out or make partner or do you preemptively start looking at other options? Not necessary miserable or burnt out but more so just accustomed to the grind and no longer phased by it. However, who wants to keep that up forever? 10 or 20 more years of that sounds exhausting. Most of my class year is gone by now and I'm not "gunning" for partner. More so of the mindset that if it happens it happens with the realization that the winner of the pie eating contest just gets more pie. Pay is NYC biglaw so realistically no other options would touch what we're at now. Do we just keep riding things out collecting the paycheck until they force your hand or do you preemptively start looking to go in-house? At what point though do you become so senior that you're then limited? Who wants to hire a 8th or 9th year associate as a corporate counsel?

Welcome all thoughts.

Twitter hired a 4th year from Skadden to head its legal. The future is bright.

[Anonymous User]

Title says it all but at what point do you start really looking to jump ship from the big law train?

6th year in NYC big law in corporate. Do you keep collecting the paycheck until they push you out or make partner or do you preemptively start looking at other options? Not necessary miserable or burnt out but more so just accustomed to the grind and no longer phased by it. However, who wants to keep that up forever? 10 or 20 more years of that sounds exhausting. Most of my class year is gone by now and I'm not "gunning" for partner. More so of the mindset that if it happens it happens with the realization that the winner of the pie eating contest just gets more pie. Pay is NYC biglaw so realistically no other options would touch what we're at now. Do we just keep riding things out collecting the paycheck until they force your hand or do you preemptively start looking to go in-house? At what point though do you become so senior that you're then limited? Who wants to hire a 8th or 9th year associate as a corporate counsel?

Welcome all thoughts.

I'm in the same exact boat. Would like to hear thoughts from people on this topic. My plan was to stay on until my tenth year as a senior associate to collect these paychecks and then pivot to in-house (partner is just not something I want).

[LittleRedCorvette]

Title says it all but at what point do you start really looking to jump ship from the big law train?

6th year in NYC big law in corporate. Do you keep collecting the paycheck until they push you out or make partner or do you preemptively start looking at other options? Not necessary miserable or burnt out but more so just accustomed to the grind and no longer phased by it. However, who wants to keep that up forever? 10 or 20 more years of that sounds exhausting. Most of my class year is gone by now and I'm not "gunning" for partner. More so of the mindset that if it happens it happens with the realization that the winner of the pie eating contest just gets more pie. Pay is NYC biglaw so realistically no other options would touch what we're at now. Do we just keep riding things out collecting the paycheck until they force your hand or do you preemptively start looking to go in-house? At what point though do you become so senior that you're then limited? Who wants to hire a 8th or 9th year associate as a corporate counsel?

Welcome all thoughts.

If you look at in-house job listings, lots have ranges of 6-10 years of experience, or 10+ years of experience. I don't think there's much danger in being "too senior" other than trying to make partner somewhere else and looking like damaged goods.

Just keep cashing checks until you rage quit one day. That's more-or-less my plan.

[Anonymous User]

Title says it all but at what point do you start really looking to jump ship from the big law train?

6th year in NYC big law in corporate. Do you keep collecting the paycheck until they push you out or make partner or do you preemptively start looking at other options? Not necessary miserable or burnt out but more so just accustomed to the grind and no longer phased by it. However, who wants to keep that up forever? 10 or 20 more years of that sounds exhausting. Most of my class year is gone by now and I'm not "gunning" for partner. More so of the mindset that if it happens it happens with the realization that the winner of the pie eating contest just gets more pie. Pay is NYC biglaw so realistically no other options would touch what we're at now. Do we just keep riding things out collecting the paycheck until they force your hand or do you preemptively start looking to go in-house? At what point though do you become so senior that you're then limited? Who wants to hire a 8th or 9th year associate as a corporate counsel?

Welcome all thoughts.

I'd say stay as long as you are reasonably happy but keep an eye open for potentially great positions or opportunities. And throw your hat in the ring if one of these comes along. Are you at a firm with non-equity partners? People hate on the Kirkland model but I think it's beneficial for seniors. The "Partner" title helps the glorified senior associates when it comes to in house hiring and when attempting to lateral to smaller firms as a real partner.

[Anonymous User]

Start applying to jobs, even the ones you think you won't be qualified for. Just throw your hat in the ring, you never know when a unicorn opportunity might open up.

[Anonymous User]

I made it 8 years and then pivoted to an off-track position with much better work life balance. Knew I didn’t want to make partner so I eventually just wasn’t interested in the grind anymore. Pay in new position is obviously lower but comparable to about a fourth year associate, WLB is great. I’m obviously sweating with the economic downturn but if I get laid off I feel pretty confident I can find something else. Banked $1 million before leaving partner track so that helps. Very happy with how things have worked out.

[Anonymous User]

Senior on track for partner and in a similar spot. Don't really want to be partner but want to take the $$ for as long as possible. A related question is, at what point does it make sense to tell the firm that you are not looking for partnership in the hopes that they will help you land somewhere? Will this make the remaining time in the firm more miserable as they no longer care about burning you out?

[Anonymous User]

I left for government towards the end of my 6th year. The work life balance is incredible — I work literally half the amount of time as I did as a biglaw senior associate, and have a small fraction of the stress. Obviously there are financial downsides and it stings more than I expected, but I still make a comfortable salary and my spouse and I can easily cover our mortgage. Personally, I didn’t see how I could do biglaw with kids, and the fact that I was starting a family contributed significantly to the decision. If I was single or still far from having a child, and it made sense professionally, I might have milked another 1-2 years of firm salary before making my exit.

[LittleRedCorvette]

I left for government towards the end of my 6th year. The work life balance is incredible — I work literally half the amount of time as I did as a biglaw senior associate, and have a small fraction of the stress. Obviously there are financial downsides and it stings more than I expected, but I still make a comfortable salary and my spouse and I can easily cover our mortgage. Personally, I didn’t see how I could do biglaw with kids, and the fact that I was starting a family contributed significantly to the decision. If I was single or still far from having a child, and it made sense professionally, I might have milked another 1-2 years of firm salary before making my exit.

Would you mind telling us more specifically what you're doing now? PM is A-OK with me if you'd be willing to share. Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

I've always been in-house, 5 years now and senior role at tech. There are many opportunities out there, especially remote role is getting common these days. I'd def go in-house, if you are tired of big law.

[Anonymous User]

Got out right around my 8th year after having a kid. Moved in-house at a tech company and love it.

[VirginiaFan]

I left for government towards the end of my 6th year. The work life balance is incredible — I work literally half the amount of time as I did as a biglaw senior associate, and have a small fraction of the stress. Obviously there are financial downsides and it stings more than I expected, but I still make a comfortable salary and my spouse and I can easily cover our mortgage. Personally, I didn’t see how I could do biglaw with kids, and the fact that I was starting a family contributed significantly to the decision. If I was single or still far from having a child, and it made sense professionally, I might have milked another 1-2 years of firm salary before making my exit.

Would you mind telling us more specifically what you're doing now? PM is A-OK with me if you'd be willing to share. Thanks!

I have the same question, if you wouldn't mind.

[Anonymous User]

I just got an in-house offer as a sixth year. Matches biglaw comp and while the WLB isn't expected to be great, it is going to be better than biglaw. I'll have actual PTO I can take without stress instead of thinking "oh if I take a week off that's 40+ hours I need to make up later on to keep on track or I'll get a talking to, and I should probably bring all my work stuff because my partners still think I should respond to work emails from clients in the evenings of vacations" God forbid I try to have two weeks off a year, that would really set me "off track". Now I will have like 25 days of PTO. That would be an entire 200 billable hour month I would need to make up at my firm right now that I can use without guilt and to spend quality time with my family.

We are having kid soon and I refuse to be the parent that just is never around, or always puts work first before their family, or who just constantly is thinking of their time in terms of when they can go back to work. I have seen others and done this dance myself, we all know it, "Okay well if I have dinner with my family and relax for an hour that is okay, I will just spend two hours working later tonight" instead of actually being fully present in the moment. I have yet to see a partner, besides complete rainmakers who don't actually work, successfully prioritize their family over work in the long term. I don't think it is possible for associates when you have to be billing the hours you do and are expected to be as responsive as partners demand.

Do I think all in-house jobs are great? No. Do I think all law firm jobs suck? No, I think there are probably good ones out there. But on average most do.

[Anonymous User]

Senior on track for partner and in a similar spot. Don't really want to be partner but want to take the $$ for as long as possible. A related question is, at what point does it make sense to tell the firm that you are not looking for partnership in the hopes that they will help you land somewhere? Will this make the remaining time in the firm more miserable as they no longer care about burning you out?

This was my plan too as a senior associate--ride the gravy train as long as possible before getting pushed out. But then I was put up for partner and either had to say no and leave or go for it. So I went through the process, made partner last year, and now there's no clear exit for me. I figure eventually I'll get pushed out if I don't develop meaningful business, but that might be 3-4 years.

[Anonymous User]

Senior on track for partner and in a similar spot. Don't really want to be partner but want to take the $$ for as long as possible. A related question is, at what point does it make sense to tell the firm that you are not looking for partnership in the hopes that they will help you land somewhere? Will this make the remaining time in the firm more miserable as they no longer care about burning you out?

This was my plan too as a senior associate--ride the gravy train as long as possible before getting pushed out. But then I was put up for partner and either had to say no and leave or go for it. So I went through the process, made partner last year, and now there's no clear exit for me. I figure eventually I'll get pushed out if I don't develop meaningful business, but that might be 3-4 years.

What happens if you left within a year or two of making partner? Do you lose your "buy in"?

Also, I'm a 3rd year corp associate who is biding time to go in house. Just praying the economy starts improving so it's easier to exit. Also, looks like so many in house roles are for public company reporting?

[Anonymous User]

Senior on track for partner and in a similar spot. Don't really want to be partner but want to take the $$ for as long as possible. A related question is, at what point does it make sense to tell the firm that you are not looking for partnership in the hopes that they will help you land somewhere? Will this make the remaining time in the firm more miserable as they no longer care about burning you out?

This was my plan too as a senior associate--ride the gravy train as long as possible before getting pushed out. But then I was put up for partner and either had to say no and leave or go for it. So I went through the process, made partner last year, and now there's no clear exit for me. I figure eventually I'll get pushed out if I don't develop meaningful business, but that might be 3-4 years.

I'm mostly in Biglaw for early retirement and have no intention of making partner, however, doesn't making partner not basically means you're kind of set? Not like that you can buy any car you want, but I feel like a year or two of partner, you can freely quit and never have to worry about money, assuming you've spent the last ten years investing properly. But curious to your thoughts.

[Moneytrees]

Senior on track for partner and in a similar spot. Don't really want to be partner but want to take the $$ for as long as possible. A related question is, at what point does it make sense to tell the firm that you are not looking for partnership in the hopes that they will help you land somewhere? Will this make the remaining time in the firm more miserable as they no longer care about burning you out?

This was my plan too as a senior associate--ride the gravy train as long as possible before getting pushed out. But then I was put up for partner and either had to say no and leave or go for it. So I went through the process, made partner last year, and now there's no clear exit for me. I figure eventually I'll get pushed out if I don't develop meaningful business, but that might be 3-4 years.

I'm mostly in Biglaw for early retirement and have no intention of making partner, however, doesn't making partner not basically means you're kind of set? Not like that you can buy any car you want, but I feel like a year or two of partner, you can freely quit and never have to worry about money, assuming you've spent the last ten years investing properly. But curious to your thoughts.

No. Most partners are non-equity, so they aren't making more than senior associates.

[Anonymous User]

Senior on track for partner and in a similar spot. Don't really want to be partner but want to take the $$ for as long as possible. A related question is, at what point does it make sense to tell the firm that you are not looking for partnership in the hopes that they will help you land somewhere? Will this make the remaining time in the firm more miserable as they no longer care about burning you out?

This was my plan too as a senior associate--ride the gravy train as long as possible before getting pushed out. But then I was put up for partner and either had to say no and leave or go for it. So I went through the process, made partner last year, and now there's no clear exit for me. I figure eventually I'll get pushed out if I don't develop meaningful business, but that might be 3-4 years.

I'm mostly in Biglaw for early retirement and have no intention of making partner, however, doesn't making partner not basically means you're kind of set? Not like that you can buy any car you want, but I feel like a year or two of partner, you can freely quit and never have to worry about money, assuming you've spent the last ten years investing properly. But curious to your thoughts.

No. Most partners are non-equity, so they aren't making more than senior associates.

Agree. I'm a non-equity partner at a V100 firm and have been for a few years. I can pay my mortgage, save around 10% of my income for retirement, enjoy a nice-but-not extravagant standard of living without actively budgeting or thinking about money, and save a couple thousand a month. But I am not anywhere close to being able to retire now, or even being able to retire in 15 years. (I'm also married to another lawyer and don't have kids, so I think the financial situation may be tighter for a lot of non-equity partners.)

[Anonymous User]

Was in regional BL. In fed govt now- less hours, less stress, more fulfilling. Salary cut wasn't too bad but I'm in a small market so our "BL" didn't pay close to market.

[thehistorian]

Senior on track for partner and in a similar spot. Don't really want to be partner but want to take the $$ for as long as possible. A related question is, at what point does it make sense to tell the firm that you are not looking for partnership in the hopes that they will help you land somewhere? Will this make the remaining time in the firm more miserable as they no longer care about burning you out?

This was my plan too as a senior associate--ride the gravy train as long as possible before getting pushed out. But then I was put up for partner and either had to say no and leave or go for it. So I went through the process, made partner last year, and now there's no clear exit for me. I figure eventually I'll get pushed out if I don't develop meaningful business, but that might be 3-4 years.

I'm mostly in Biglaw for early retirement and have no intention of making partner, however, doesn't making partner not basically means you're kind of set? Not like that you can buy any car you want, but I feel like a year or two of partner, you can freely quit and never have to worry about money, assuming you've spent the last ten years investing properly. But curious to your thoughts.

No. Most partners are non-equity, so they aren't making more than senior associates.

Agree. I'm a non-equity partner at a V100 firm and have been for a few years. I can pay my mortgage, save around 10% of my income for retirement, enjoy a nice-but-not extravagant standard of living without actively budgeting or thinking about money, and save a couple thousand a month. But I am not anywhere close to being able to retire now, or even being able to retire in 15 years. (I'm also married to another lawyer and don't have kids, so I think the financial situation may be tighter for a lot of non-equity partners.)

I'm gonna be honest, a DINK household of two lawyers when one of y'all is biglaw only saving 10% of your income feels insane to me. Acting like you could not retire in 15 years just means you must be spending a ton of cash.

[Casper123]

Senior on track for partner and in a similar spot. Don't really want to be partner but want to take the $$ for as long as possible. A related question is, at what point does it make sense to tell the firm that you are not looking for partnership in the hopes that they will help you land somewhere? Will this make the remaining time in the firm more miserable as they no longer care about burning you out?

This was my plan too as a senior associate--ride the gravy train as long as possible before getting pushed out. But then I was put up for partner and either had to say no and leave or go for it. So I went through the process, made partner last year, and now there's no clear exit for me. I figure eventually I'll get pushed out if I don't develop meaningful business, but that might be 3-4 years.

I'm mostly in Biglaw for early retirement and have no intention of making partner, however, doesn't making partner not basically means you're kind of set? Not like that you can buy any car you want, but I feel like a year or two of partner, you can freely quit and never have to worry about money, assuming you've spent the last ten years investing properly. But curious to your thoughts.

No. Most partners are non-equity, so they aren't making more than senior associates.

Agree. I'm a non-equity partner at a V100 firm and have been for a few years. I can pay my mortgage, save around 10% of my income for retirement, enjoy a nice-but-not extravagant standard of living without actively budgeting or thinking about money, and save a couple thousand a month. But I am not anywhere close to being able to retire now, or even being able to retire in 15 years. (I'm also married to another lawyer and don't have kids, so I think the financial situation may be tighter for a lot of non-equity partners.)

I'm gonna be honest, a DINK household of two lawyers when one of y'all is biglaw only saving 10% of your income feels insane to me. Acting like you could not retire in 15 years just means you must be spending a ton of cash.

Well I guess if they live in a nice apartment in an expensive neighborhood in NYC and by "a few thousand" they mean 8k then it maybe.

[Wanderingdrock]

Senior on track for partner and in a similar spot. Don't really want to be partner but want to take the $$ for as long as possible. A related question is, at what point does it make sense to tell the firm that you are not looking for partnership in the hopes that they will help you land somewhere? Will this make the remaining time in the firm more miserable as they no longer care about burning you out?

This was my plan too as a senior associate--ride the gravy train as long as possible before getting pushed out. But then I was put up for partner and either had to say no and leave or go for it. So I went through the process, made partner last year, and now there's no clear exit for me. I figure eventually I'll get pushed out if I don't develop meaningful business, but that might be 3-4 years.

I'm mostly in Biglaw for early retirement and have no intention of making partner, however, doesn't making partner not basically means you're kind of set? Not like that you can buy any car you want, but I feel like a year or two of partner, you can freely quit and never have to worry about money, assuming you've spent the last ten years investing properly. But curious to your thoughts.

No. Most partners are non-equity, so they aren't making more than senior associates.

Agree. I'm a non-equity partner at a V100 firm and have been for a few years. I can pay my mortgage, save around 10% of my income for retirement, enjoy a nice-but-not extravagant standard of living without actively budgeting or thinking about money, and save a couple thousand a month. But I am not anywhere close to being able to retire now, or even being able to retire in 15 years. (I'm also married to another lawyer and don't have kids, so I think the financial situation may be tighter for a lot of non-equity partners.)

I'm gonna be honest, a DINK household of two lawyers when one of y'all is biglaw only saving 10% of your income feels insane to me. Acting like you could not retire in 15 years just means you must be spending a ton of cash.

Well I guess if they live in a nice apartment in an expensive neighborhood in NYC and by "a few thousand" they mean 8k then it maybe.

Yeah, they're doing it wrong. It's the "without actively budgeting or thinking about money" that gives it away. They're probably gonna come back in here all angry that we're judging them, we don't know their situation, yada yada, but they're objectively just doing it wrong. I'm a single income, one kid household in a HCOL market, and I'm not a partner, just an associate, and we "enjoy a nice-but-not extravagant standard of living" while carrying a mortgage, but we also think about money and budget, so I know we're saving a lot more than this person. More than 10% of my income goes into retirement accounts (401(k), mega backdoor Roth, and Roth IRA for each of us) and we're also saving more than "a couple thousand" per month.

Lifestyle creep is real, y'all, but you'll never realize it if you don't think about money and budget. Budgeting isn't a bad thing! Budgeting doesn't mean you're scrimping! Budgeting just means you know what's coming in and what's going out, and where it goes.

[whats an updog]

This was my plan too as a senior associate--ride the gravy train as long as possible before getting pushed out. But then I was put up for partner and either had to say no and leave or go for it. So I went through the process, made partner last year, and now there's no clear exit for me. I figure eventually I'll get pushed out if I don't develop meaningful business, but that might be 3-4 years.

I'm mostly in Biglaw for early retirement and have no intention of making partner, however, doesn't making partner not basically means you're kind of set? Not like that you can buy any car you want, but I feel like a year or two of partner, you can freely quit and never have to worry about money, assuming you've spent the last ten years investing properly. But curious to your thoughts.

No. Most partners are non-equity, so they aren't making more than senior associates.

Agree. I'm a non-equity partner at a V100 firm and have been for a few years. I can pay my mortgage, save around 10% of my income for retirement, enjoy a nice-but-not extravagant standard of living without actively budgeting or thinking about money, and save a couple thousand a month. But I am not anywhere close to being able to retire now, or even being able to retire in 15 years. (I'm also married to another lawyer and don't have kids, so I think the financial situation may be tighter for a lot of non-equity partners.)

I'm gonna be honest, a DINK household of two lawyers when one of y'all is biglaw only saving 10% of your income feels insane to me. Acting like you could not retire in 15 years just means you must be spending a ton of cash.

Well I guess if they live in a nice apartment in an expensive neighborhood in NYC and by "a few thousand" they mean 8k then it maybe.

Yeah, they're doing it wrong. It's the "without actively budgeting or thinking about money" that gives it away. They're probably gonna come back in here all angry that we're judging them, we don't know their situation, yada yada, but they're objectively just doing it wrong. I'm a single income, one kid household in a HCOL market, and I'm not a partner, just an associate, and we "enjoy a nice-but-not extravagant standard of living" while carrying a mortgage, but we also think about money and budget, so I know we're saving a lot more than this person. More than 10% of my income goes into retirement accounts (401(k), mega backdoor Roth, and Roth IRA for each of us) and we're also saving more than "a couple thousand" per month.

Lifestyle creep is real, y'all, but you'll never realize it if you don't think about money and budget. Budgeting isn't a bad thing! Budgeting doesn't mean you're scrimping! Budgeting just means you know what's coming in and what's going out, and where it goes.

DINK double big law and only saving a couple thousand a month means you're a fucking idiot

[Anonymous User]

Hypothetically, if you're just starting out, how do you pivot to something more interesting? I fucked up and ended up heading in the biglaw direction when I came to law school to do public interest work (but our public interest infrastructure is terrible). Currently summering at a V10 in lit, would rather like to not go back but don't have a clerkship lined up or any obvious way to get out. Ideally would like to be a PD in one of NY/Chicago/SF, but open to consider anything more public-service oriented. Edit: should note, $$$ doesn't matter here.