Firms to avoid for rising 2Ls Forum

[Anonymous User]

Having a hard time following the threads about which firms are imploding .... Kirkland, Gunderson, Cooley, Shearman, Williams Connolly, etc. Can we please make a list of what firms us 1Ls/rising 2Ls should avoid?

[Anonymous User]

Is kirkland really "imploding"? I agree with those that have criticized kirkland for laying people off despite profits having increased.

But we don't know how many people were laid off. And the deferral of start dates for first years is speculation as of right now.

[throwawayt14]

Having a hard time following the threads about which firms are imploding .... Kirkland, Gunderson, Cooley, Shearman, Williams Connolly, etc. Can we please make a list of what firms us 1Ls/rising 2Ls should avoid?

Williams & Connolly is not imploding lol. What are you talking about?

[Anonymous User]

Williams & Connolly? You mean White & Case?

[Anonymous User]

Gunderson and Cooley have serious structural issues and are delaying class of 23. Avoid at all costs.

KE and Goodwin are just living up to their reputations. Goodwin laid ppl off in 2020 already and seems to think that was a successful strategy. KE always treated its associates like garbage and had a harsher churn system than others. Avoid those firms but again, nothing new.

The W&C that's allegedly been laying off is White and Case. Hasn't really been confirmed yet that they are doing more than typical stealths. And let's be honest, all firms are trimming what they can, annual reviews will be harsher this year etc. Gravy train has stopped.

[Anonymous User]

Gunderson and Cooley are Tech/ECVC heavy firms, so structurally more business cycle sensitive than other firms. I'd expect the other firms in their cadre like Fenwick and Wilson Sonsini to follow suit with the austerity measures soon. They are still good firms with interesting work and good cultures on the whole, so are still worth considering in better economic times if ECVC interests you and you're aware of the risks.

Nothing about Kirkland's recent moves should be surprising. They are a soulless cash machine whether they're pushing underperformers out or stuffing their faces with billable grunt work.

Shearman is the really concerning one, the public merger talks with Hogan breaking down makes people think there's something wrong, but its not exactly clear what. Even in an ice-cold lateral market there has been a noticeable number of partners jumping ship.

[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

Avoid White & Case like a plague. Unless they are the only firm that gives you an offer, avoid. I've been at a few firms and they were absolutely the worst. They are one shit firm globally.

Lol who hurt you… sounds like you might be the problem if you’re jumping firms often.

[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

Lol someone got hurt badly

[jbagelboy]

Avoid White & Case like a plague. Unless they are the only firm that gives you an offer, avoid. I've been at a few firms and they were absolutely the worst. They are one shit firm globally.

Lol who hurt you… sounds like you might be the problem if you’re jumping firms often.

This is a fucked up post. It’s unacceptable victim blaming and shouldn’t be on these boards. Someone moving firms more than once is far from an indication of a problem with them, and could easily instead reflect the natural progression of a career or a number of toxic environments (there are many).

[DougEvans789]

Having a hard time following the threads about which firms are imploding .... Kirkland, Gunderson, Cooley, Shearman, Williams Connolly, etc. Can we please make a list of what firms us 1Ls/rising 2Ls should avoid?

Williams & Connolly is not imploding lol. What are you talking about?

lol I assume they mean white & case. Or are just randomly naming law firms

[Anonymous User]

If you have other offers, my personal opinion is you should avoid Ropes.

[Anonymous User]

If you have other offers, my personal opinion is you should avoid Ropes.

I’d avoid any firm that lays off their employees who didn’t win the h1-b lottery and didn’t give them the courtesy to stay till the end of their OPT.

[Anonymous User]

I'd say you should avoid any firm that either gives partial bonuses to or lays off some associates that consistently met the firm's billable hours target, such as White & Case. If you are joining that firm, do so at your own peril. You have been warned. You are going to a firm where your sacrifices (your all nighters and cancelled weekend/vacation plans) and contributions may not be recognized and where you may get kicked out cold when the economy tanks and the firm can't generate enough work for you. PLEASE DON'T QUOTE.

[Anonymous User]

Gunderson and Cooley are Tech/ECVC heavy firms, so structurally more business cycle sensitive than other firms. I'd expect the other firms in their cadre like Fenwick and Wilson Sonsini to follow suit with the austerity measures soon. They are still good firms with interesting work and good cultures on the whole, so are still worth considering in better economic times if ECVC interests you and you're aware of the risks.

Lol. A firm is not a "good firm" with a "good culture" if they manage themselves so badly in a boom period that they are forced to fire first years. That's bad management and a bad culture. The fact that others haven't followed suit yet just shows you had bad of a job those two did managing their firms.

Yes they will still be around doing ECVC work, and yes they'll get tons of law school grads to come work for them whenever things turn around, but let's not kid ourselves with the good culture comments.

[Anonymous User]

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I mean if there isn’t enough work all firms will kick people out. And don’t sacrifice your life for a firm. Doesn’t mean White & Case isn’t shitty, but it’s not clear it’s uniquely so.

[Anonymous User]

To the above poster. Didn't I tell you not to quote? What the fuck. I have never heard of firms like Skadden laying off associates. Moreover, other than W&C, I have never heard of any firm with a billable target not giving full market bonuses to associates that met their billable target.

I am a senior associate and have been at a few firms. I confirm W&C is uniquely shitty. Take it or not, I am just sharing the truth. Go there and believe whatever bullshit that management feeds you at your own peril.

[Anonymous User]

So much vitriol …

[Anonymous User]

Which W&C practice group?

[Anonymous User]

If you have other offers, my personal opinion is you should avoid Ropes.

I’d avoid any firm that lays off their employees who didn’t win the h1-b lottery and didn’t give them the courtesy to stay till the end of their OPT.

they imploded quickly. used to be a lot better.

[Anonymous User]

Has any current 3L (class of 23) at Goodwin heard a state date yet? One of my friends who summered there last summer heard a rumor that they're going to push back to March 2024, and she's freaking out.

I heard of Faegre starting in September, Kirkland starting in September, and MoFo starting in November. Goodwin supposedly starting after Cooley is surprising to me...

Gunderson and Cooley have serious structural issues and are delaying class of 23. Avoid at all costs.

KE and Goodwin are just living up to their reputations. Goodwin laid ppl off in 2020 already and seems to think that was a successful strategy. KE always treated its associates like garbage and had a harsher churn system than others. Avoid those firms but again, nothing new.

The W&C that's allegedly been laying off is White and Case. Hasn't really been confirmed yet that they are doing more than typical stealths. And let's be honest, all firms are trimming what they can, annual reviews will be harsher this year etc. Gravy train has stopped.

[Anonymous User]

they imploded quickly. used to be a lot better.

Can you share more details?

[Anonymous User]

they imploded quickly. used to be a lot better.

Can you share more details?

Ropes has laid off associates, mostly juniors, pretty ruthlessly. they told the media it was performance based, even though we all knew that wasn’t true: https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-we ... er-the-bus

I started in biglaw pre-pandemic when Ropes was one of the better places to work. it’s now a dysfunctional partnership, desperate to cut costs and increase PPP by any means possible. there’s near-zero effort to mentor and develop juniors and mids, there’s been a deluge of ruthless lateral partners, and culture has become toxic. They’re also insane about RTO and have allegedly fired people for that alone.

They’re now similar to a Goodwin or a Cooley or a K&E in treating associates as disposable and worthless.

[Wild Card]

Dechert has a long history of firing first and second years. Dunno if those lambs were sacrificed in this latest reap.

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business- ... aw-layoffs