H1B desperation Forum

[Anonymous User]

I've been at the lowest point in my life over the past few days.

I'm a 3L about to graduate and start work this coming September. I was notified a few days ago that I wasn't picked through the H1B lottery, which means that, after my OPT is done, I'll in all likelihood have to leave my firm. Getting this job has been my dream since undergrad and anything I'd have to say about how happy I was to get it would be an understatement (please go light on the cynicism.)

I did everything right. I did my research. I picked what most people told me was the absolute BEST firm for an international J.D. to go for. I talked to the HR people, I talked to people AT the firm who went through the same process, and everyone assured me that I would just have to go through an office transfer for a year and then be brought back. They're a firm that has always done this.

On the same day I was sent my lottery outcome, a first year at my firm told me that the decision for this year was that NO ONE would be getting transferred, apparently because the market was just so bad. I also heard about the news from Goodwin (for those not in the know, they literally just fired everyone who didn't get in through the lottery), which didn't exactly make things any better. I'm not exactly optimistic about the market outlook for next year - if anything, things are bound to get worse.

How do I get through this? I was planning on proposing to my gf soon and finally having kids. What am I supposed to tell her? How am I supposed to start a family if I have no clue about what the future holds beyond one year from now?

Should I start looking in another market? What's in store for those of us who were unlucky enough not to get in through this braindead lottery system?

[Anonymous User]

I've been at the lowest point in my life over the past few days.

I'm a 3L about to graduate and start work this coming September. I was notified a few days ago that I wasn't picked through the H1B lottery, which means that, after my OPT is done, I'll in all likelihood have to leave my firm. Getting this job has been my dream since undergrad and anything I'd have to say about how happy I was to get it would be an understatement (please go light on the cynicism.)

I did everything right. I did my research. I picked what most people told me was the absolute BEST firm for an international J.D. to go for. I talked to the HR people, I talked to people AT the firm who went through the same process, and everyone assured me that I would just have to go through an office transfer for a year and then be brought back. They're a firm that has always done this.

On the same day I was sent my lottery outcome, a first year at my firm told me that the decision for this year was that NO ONE would be getting transferred, apparently because the market was just so bad. I also heard about the news from Goodwin (for those not in the know, they literally just fired everyone who didn't get in through the lottery), which didn't exactly make things any better. I'm not exactly optimistic about the market outlook for next year - if anything, things are bound to get worse.

How do I get through this? I was planning on proposing to my gf soon and finally having kids. What am I supposed to tell her? How am I supposed to start a family if I have no clue about what the future holds beyond one year from now?

Should I start looking in another market? What's in store for those of us who were unlucky enough not to get in through this braindead lottery system?

So sorry. Which firm? Assuming your partner is not American?

[Anonymous User]

If you marry a US Citizen you can get an EAD and your GC will come in a year - lower population places can come as quickly as 3 months. If you’re from China or India originally, the EB processing times are very long (over 10 years for EB2) so if you have the option of marrying a citizen, I would go that route.

[Anonymous User]

You should:

1: Out the firm. Let others know so they can avoid them in the future. Pay it forward if you will.

2: If your partner is an American citizen, consider getting married for love.

3: If 2 is not an option, look into London, Singapore, Hong Kong cap markets positions first. If no luck there, expand the search wider targeting biglaw offices in countries were you speak the language.

4: If 3 doesn’t work, try to get a job at the top firm in your country that acts as local counsel for biglaw firms when there are large cross-border matters. Get a job there, re-apply every year for H1-B, and keep trying 3 above.

Eventually, assuming you have the qualifications to get into biglaw (which your current offer indicates that you do), you’ll be able to break back in because the market will turn. It always does. This may mean a couple year detour in your career and cause a lot of personal stress. But it will not break you if you don’t let it. You can still achieve everything in biglaw or the US legal market that you set your sights on if you are persistent and realistic in your applications. It will be a longer path, it’ll be tougher, but you are an international law student in the US. If you’ve made it this far it is likely you’ve out hustled and outworked thousands. You’ll conquer this too. I feel your pain, I had to leave the US a few years ago and I’m now back. Best wishes across the internet, you can do this

[Anonymous User]

Out the firm, OP. I outed my shit biglaw firm some time ago. Nothing bad happened

[Anonymous User]

Thanks to everyone who replied!

I think the solution is most likely marriage. My SO is a US citizen and has basically told me she's ready to marry whenever. We're religiously observant (Catholic), so this might take a slightly longer period of time since there's a lot of preparation involved, but we'll probably tie the knot sometime in January of next year. My only concern is the timeline. Doesn't it take an inordinate amount of time to get an EAD while waiting for green card approval? Presumably that would meam there will be a gap between when my OPT expires and when I get my new work authorization. Doesn't that mean the firm still has an excuse to let me go? I won't be allowed to work for a few months...

[Anonymous User]

Could you not get legally married sooner to get the paperwork started and do the actual formal wedding part later?

[FF2020]

Thanks to everyone who replied!

I think the solution is most likely marriage. My SO is a US citizen and has basically told me she's ready to marry whenever. We're religiously observant (Catholic), so this might take a slightly longer period of time since there's a lot of preparation involved, but we'll probably tie the knot sometime in January of next year. My only concern is the timeline. Doesn't it take an inordinate amount of time to get an EAD while waiting for green card approval? Presumably that would meam there will be a gap between when my OPT expires and when I get my new work authorization. Doesn't that mean the firm still has an excuse to let me go? I won't be allowed to work for a few months...

EAD can be quite quick following marriage. There's also often a pending hold when the application is in process, but I can't speak to that authoritatively. I'd suggest talking to an immigration lawyer - DM me if you want some suggestions - and they'll normally answer questions for friends of clients pretty quickly.

Also, while I understand your religious concerns, if you can get a civil/City Hall type marriage done ahead of time that can start the process sooner - but that's a matter of personal choice. You won't be the first and won't be the last to do this.

[Anonymous User]

Could you not get legally married sooner to get the paperwork started and do the actual formal wedding part later?

Civil marriage isn't exactly looked on kindly and could cause major complications when we get married through the church. If it's the only option, though, I guess we'll have no choice. Definitely a last resort. Would you say January is kind of late? My OPT expires in July 2024, so I'd need to have my EAD by then.

[NoLongerALurker]

Your gf being a US citizen makes this such a no-brainer straightforward solution that I have trouble believing you genuinely need advice whatsoever…

Anyway, congrats on the impending marriage! And sympathies to the scores of other F1s who are victim to the extremely ridiculous realities of the H1B system. Poster above gave perfect advice to any lurkers facing similar problems but lacking the obvious solution OP has.

[DownUnder]

I've been at the lowest point in my life over the past few days.

I'm a 3L about to graduate and start work this coming September. I was notified a few days ago that I wasn't picked through the H1B lottery, which means that, after my OPT is done, I'll in all likelihood have to leave my firm. Getting this job has been my dream since undergrad and anything I'd have to say about how happy I was to get it would be an understatement (please go light on the cynicism.)

I did everything right. I did my research. I picked what most people told me was the absolute BEST firm for an international J.D. to go for. I talked to the HR people, I talked to people AT the firm who went through the same process, and everyone assured me that I would just have to go through an office transfer for a year and then be brought back. They're a firm that has always done this.

On the same day I was sent my lottery outcome, a first year at my firm told me that the decision for this year was that NO ONE would be getting transferred, apparently because the market was just so bad. I also heard about the news from Goodwin (for those not in the know, they literally just fired everyone who didn't get in through the lottery), which didn't exactly make things any better. I'm not exactly optimistic about the market outlook for next year - if anything, things are bound to get worse.

How do I get through this? I was planning on proposing to my gf soon and finally having kids. What am I supposed to tell her? How am I supposed to start a family if I have no clue about what the future holds beyond one year from now?

Should I start looking in another market? What's in store for those of us who were unlucky enough not to get in through this braindead lottery system?

I been through the same process as a fellow international, so I can totally relate. However, not sure why you are panicking at this point. Assuming you are on the F-1 visa, your OPT will start sometime around July of this year, which will last until July of 2024. This means that you can still start in September and have the right to work in the US until July 2024. Also, your firm can sponsor you for another round of H-1b lottery next March. Additionally, you will likely have a higher chance of being selected, given you will be a part of the Master's cap for next year's lottery (I am assuming you just have a bachelors degree at this point).

Now, if you are not selected for next year's lottery, you will have to worry about whether your firm will transfer you to an overseas office. Keep in mind that 2022/23 was a terrible year for most firms and so I'm not surprised that your firm did not transfer anyone (it sucks I know) but no one knows what the market will look like in 2024, so there is no use in worrying about something outside of your control.

FYI, as a 2019 graduate, I wasn't selected for the 2019 and 2020 H-1b lottery. I ended up transferring to an overseas office and came back to my firm's US office in 2021 once I was finally selected in the lottery. It's not easy but definitely can be done.

Good luck.

[charles117]

I've been at the lowest point in my life over the past few days.

I'm a 3L about to graduate and start work this coming September. I was notified a few days ago that I wasn't picked through the H1B lottery, which means that, after my OPT is done, I'll in all likelihood have to leave my firm. Getting this job has been my dream since undergrad and anything I'd have to say about how happy I was to get it would be an understatement (please go light on the cynicism.)

I did everything right. I did my research. I picked what most people told me was the absolute BEST firm for an international J.D. to go for. I talked to the HR people, I talked to people AT the firm who went through the same process, and everyone assured me that I would just have to go through an office transfer for a year and then be brought back. They're a firm that has always done this.

On the same day I was sent my lottery outcome, a first year at my firm told me that the decision for this year was that NO ONE would be getting transferred, apparently because the market was just so bad. I also heard about the news from Goodwin (for those not in the know, they literally just fired everyone who didn't get in through the lottery), which didn't exactly make things any better. I'm not exactly optimistic about the market outlook for next year - if anything, things are bound to get worse.

How do I get through this? I was planning on proposing to my gf soon and finally having kids. What am I supposed to tell her? How am I supposed to start a family if I have no clue about what the future holds beyond one year from now?

Should I start looking in another market? What's in store for those of us who were unlucky enough not to get in through this braindead lottery system?

is this weil?

[Anonymous User]

I've been at the lowest point in my life over the past few days.

I'm a 3L about to graduate and start work this coming September. I was notified a few days ago that I wasn't picked through the H1B lottery, which means that, after my OPT is done, I'll in all likelihood have to leave my firm. Getting this job has been my dream since undergrad and anything I'd have to say about how happy I was to get it would be an understatement (please go light on the cynicism.)

I did everything right. I did my research. I picked what most people told me was the absolute BEST firm for an international J.D. to go for. I talked to the HR people, I talked to people AT the firm who went through the same process, and everyone assured me that I would just have to go through an office transfer for a year and then be brought back. They're a firm that has always done this.

On the same day I was sent my lottery outcome, a first year at my firm told me that the decision for this year was that NO ONE would be getting transferred, apparently because the market was just so bad. I also heard about the news from Goodwin (for those not in the know, they literally just fired everyone who didn't get in through the lottery), which didn't exactly make things any better. I'm not exactly optimistic about the market outlook for next year - if anything, things are bound to get worse.

How do I get through this? I was planning on proposing to my gf soon and finally having kids. What am I supposed to tell her? How am I supposed to start a family if I have no clue about what the future holds beyond one year from now?

Should I start looking in another market? What's in store for those of us who were unlucky enough not to get in through this braindead lottery system?

is this weil?

It is not. The most I'll say is that it's a V10 shop. I really don't want to get into any trouble by outing the firm...

[Anonymous User]

Your gf being a US citizen makes this such a no-brainer straightforward solution that I have trouble believing you genuinely need advice whatsoever…

Anyway, congrats on the impending marriage! And sympathies to the scores of other F1s who are victim to the extremely ridiculous realities of the H1B system. Poster above gave perfect advice to any lurkers facing similar problems but lacking the obvious solution OP has.

Thank you so much for the reassurance! Honestly, marriage it is. We were planning on doing it anyway! Any idea how long it usually takes to get the EAD after applying for the green card?

[Anonymous User]

Could you not get legally married sooner to get the paperwork started and do the actual formal wedding part later?

Civil marriage isn't exactly looked on kindly and could cause major complications when we get married through the church. If it's the only option, though, I guess we'll have no choice. Definitely a last resort. Would you say January is kind of late? My OPT expires in July 2024, so I'd need to have my EAD by then.

Could you just get married in an Anglo-Catholic parish? Yeah debatably not technically in apostolic succession etc but besides that basically the same, and the Catholic Church recognizes Protestant (including Anglican/Episcopalian) marriages

Anyway probably just talk to your priest and see if they have ideas, there’s no way this doesn’t come up from time to time, whether for immigration or shotgun-wedding reasons

[Anonymous User]

Could you just get married in an Anglo-Catholic parish? Yeah debatably not technically in apostolic succession etc but besides that basically the same, and the Catholic Church recognizes Protestant (including Anglican/Episcopalian) marriages

Anyway probably just talk to your priest and see if they have ideas, there’s no way this doesn’t come up from time to time, whether for immigration or shotgun-wedding reasons

For someone who is a practicing/devout Catholic, the first option is basically not even an option.

OP, have you talked to your priest or whoever is handling your pre-Cana?

[Anonymous User]

Could you just get married in an Anglo-Catholic parish? Yeah debatably not technically in apostolic succession etc but besides that basically the same, and the Catholic Church recognizes Protestant (including Anglican/Episcopalian) marriages

Anyway probably just talk to your priest and see if they have ideas, there’s no way this doesn’t come up from time to time, whether for immigration or shotgun-wedding reasons

For someone who is a practicing/devout Catholic, the first option is basically not even an option.

OP, have you talked to your priest or whoever is handling your pre-Cana?

We haven't even started pre-Cana, although I did talk to one priest about it and was told it should be possible to do all the preparation in the span of two months if need be (although it would be a bit more rigorous). A friend of mine and his wife did it over a similar period of time, so we should be good as long as we start preparing in September. We now have a whole separate issue of where we'd even have the nuptial mass (her state, my home country, or NYC), but that's a whole other can of worms.

The bigger problem here is how the timing relates to my green card application and advance parole. It's extremely important that we go to my home country for Christmas, so I don't think we can marry in December. If we marry in January, then the issue is my OPT expiration date. If I have to wait 90 days to even file my green card application and then it takes an extra 150 days (approximately) on average to receive my EAD card, that's 240 days from January 1, which lands right around the start of September. My OPT expiration is July 14. That means that I would not have permission to work for one month at a minimum. How would the firm even handle that? Put me on "hold" for a month somehow?

[Anonymous User]

Could you just get married in an Anglo-Catholic parish? Yeah debatably not technically in apostolic succession etc but besides that basically the same, and the Catholic Church recognizes Protestant (including Anglican/Episcopalian) marriages

Anyway probably just talk to your priest and see if they have ideas, there’s no way this doesn’t come up from time to time, whether for immigration or shotgun-wedding reasons

For someone who is a practicing/devout Catholic, the first option is basically not even an option.

OP, have you talked to your priest or whoever is handling your pre-Cana?

Obviously up to OP but this is an obvious overstatement. Virtually no practicing Catholics take the view that Protestants are all schismatic or w/e, the CofE is only sort-of Protestant and has plausibly valid succession both from its own line and full communion with the Old Catholics, and the Catholic Church itself has a whole wing of priests with Anglo-Catholic training who use Anglo-Catholic liturgy (the Ordinate) and recognizes all heterosexual Anglican marriages

[Anonymous User]

Could you just get married in an Anglo-Catholic parish? Yeah debatably not technically in apostolic succession etc but besides that basically the same, and the Catholic Church recognizes Protestant (including Anglican/Episcopalian) marriages

Anyway probably just talk to your priest and see if they have ideas, there’s no way this doesn’t come up from time to time, whether for immigration or shotgun-wedding reasons

For someone who is a practicing/devout Catholic, the first option is basically not even an option.

OP, have you talked to your priest or whoever is handling your pre-Cana?

Obviously up to OP but this is an obvious overstatement. Virtually no practicing Catholics take the view that Protestants are all schismatic or w/e, the CofE is only sort-of Protestant and has plausibly valid succession both from its own line and full communion with the Old Catholics, and the Catholic Church itself has a whole wing of priests with Anglo-Catholic training who use Anglo-Catholic liturgy (the Ordinate) and recognizes all heterosexual Anglican marriages

It really isn't an option, sorry to say. Even with a dispensation, I'm not sure whether it'd even be a sacramental marriage (not sure how Anglo-Catholics approach this.) Thank you for the well-intentioned advice, but it's just not on the table.

[Anonymous User]

I've been at the lowest point in my life over the past few days.

I'm a 3L about to graduate and start work this coming September. I was notified a few days ago that I wasn't picked through the H1B lottery, which means that, after my OPT is done, I'll in all likelihood have to leave my firm. Getting this job has been my dream since undergrad and anything I'd have to say about how happy I was to get it would be an understatement (please go light on the cynicism.)

I did everything right. I did my research. I picked what most people told me was the absolute BEST firm for an international J.D. to go for. I talked to the HR people, I talked to people AT the firm who went through the same process, and everyone assured me that I would just have to go through an office transfer for a year and then be brought back. They're a firm that has always done this.

On the same day I was sent my lottery outcome, a first year at my firm told me that the decision for this year was that NO ONE would be getting transferred, apparently because the market was just so bad. I also heard about the news from Goodwin (for those not in the know, they literally just fired everyone who didn't get in through the lottery), which didn't exactly make things any better. I'm not exactly optimistic about the market outlook for next year - if anything, things are bound to get worse.

How do I get through this? I was planning on proposing to my gf soon and finally having kids. What am I supposed to tell her? How am I supposed to start a family if I have no clue about what the future holds beyond one year from now?

Should I start looking in another market? What's in store for those of us who were unlucky enough not to get in through this braindead lottery system?

I been through the same process as a fellow international, so I can totally relate. However, not sure why you are panicking at this point. Assuming you are on the F-1 visa, your OPT will start sometime around July of this year, which will last until July of 2024. This means that you can still start in September and have the right to work in the US until July 2024. Also, your firm can sponsor you for another round of H-1b lottery next March. Additionally, you will likely have a higher chance of being selected, given you will be a part of the Master's cap for next year's lottery (I am assuming you just have a bachelors degree at this point).

Now, if you are not selected for next year's lottery, you will have to worry about whether your firm will transfer you to an overseas office. Keep in mind that 2022/23 was a terrible year for most firms and so I'm not surprised that your firm did not transfer anyone (it sucks I know) but no one knows what the market will look like in 2024, so there is no use in worrying about something outside of your control.

FYI, as a 2019 graduate, I wasn't selected for the 2019 and 2020 H-1b lottery. I ended up transferring to an overseas office and came back to my firm's US office in 2021 once I was finally selected in the lottery. It's not easy but definitely can be done.

Good luck.

My firm entered me in the lottery every year starting in 2015 and I only finally got it in 2021!! Atrocious luck. Luckily they were incredibly flexible.

[Anonymous User]

We haven't even started pre-Cana, although I did talk to one priest about it and was told it should be possible to do all the preparation in the span of two months if need be (although it would be a bit more rigorous). A friend of mine and his wife did it over a similar period of time, so we should be good as long as we start preparing in September. We now have a whole separate issue of where we'd even have the nuptial mass (her state, my home country, or NYC), but that's a whole other can of worms.

The bigger problem here is how the timing relates to my green card application and advance parole. It's extremely important that we go to my home country for Christmas, so I don't think we can marry in December. If we marry in January, then the issue is my OPT expiration date. If I have to wait 90 days to even file my green card application and then it takes an extra 150 days (approximately) on average to receive my EAD card, that's 240 days from January 1, which lands right around the start of September. My OPT expiration is July 14. That means that I would not have permission to work for one month at a minimum. How would the firm even handle that? Put me on "hold" for a month somehow?

I was asking because you expressed reluctance at a civil ceremony. What is the basis of that reluctance?

[Anonymous User]

We haven't even started pre-Cana, although I did talk to one priest about it and was told it should be possible to do all the preparation in the span of two months if need be (although it would be a bit more rigorous). A friend of mine and his wife did it over a similar period of time, so we should be good as long as we start preparing in September. We now have a whole separate issue of where we'd even have the nuptial mass (her state, my home country, or NYC), but that's a whole other can of worms.

The bigger problem here is how the timing relates to my green card application and advance parole. It's extremely important that we go to my home country for Christmas, so I don't think we can marry in December. If we marry in January, then the issue is my OPT expiration date. If I have to wait 90 days to even file my green card application and then it takes an extra 150 days (approximately) on average to receive my EAD card, that's 240 days from January 1, which lands right around the start of September. My OPT expiration is July 14. That means that I would not have permission to work for one month at a minimum. How would the firm even handle that? Put me on "hold" for a month somehow?

I was asking because you expressed reluctance at a civil ceremony. What is the basis of that reluctance?

Primarily avoiding moral error, but it could also cause scandal in our communities if people find out.

[Anonymous User]

Obviously up to OP but this is an obvious overstatement. Virtually no practicing Catholics take the view that Protestants are all schismatic or w/e, the CofE is only sort-of Protestant and has plausibly valid succession both from its own line and full communion with the Old Catholics, and the Catholic Church itself has a whole wing of priests with Anglo-Catholic training who use Anglo-Catholic liturgy (the Ordinate) and recognizes all heterosexual Anglican marriages

Person you responded to.

No, it’s not. OP made it clear that they were a practicing Catholic; it’s completely unambiguous in Catholic doctrine that Protestant denominations are not in communion with the Pope, making them at least schismatic.

Your mention of “Anglo-Catholic training” obscures the key point that Pope Benedict specifically allowed Anglican communities to convert wholly to Catholicism; that’s very different from disavowing any difference with the Anglican Church writ large.

Marriages in Catholicism can be valid but not licit. Even assuming that OP’s marriage would be valid, it would absolutely not be licit within the Catholic Church, and OP’s circumstances do not justify any exception to the requirement of liceity.

[Anonymous User]

Primarily avoiding moral error, but it could also cause scandal in our communities if people find out.

Again, I would consult your spiritual director/priest/etc.

As a matter of canon law (although I am no expert), civil marriage is not a per se diriment. I cannot speak to your communities, but I’m not quite sure why you would need to publicize your civil marriage, especially if the nuptial mass is being planned. So while I appreciate the danger of scandal, it seems avoidable here, especially if you and your soon-to-be-fiancee adhere to general Catholic teaching regarding cohabitation etc.

Perhaps you have a specific moral error in mind, in which case feel free to disregard. But I think there is a path forward here that avoids any moral issue (within the Catholic framework obviously) and addresses the secular job issue.

At the least, please do not discount any options before talking to your priest (or even diocesan staff that deal with the Sacraments).

[Anonymous User]

Obviously up to OP but this is an obvious overstatement. Virtually no practicing Catholics take the view that Protestants are all schismatic or w/e, the CofE is only sort-of Protestant and has plausibly valid succession both from its own line and full communion with the Old Catholics, and the Catholic Church itself has a whole wing of priests with Anglo-Catholic training who use Anglo-Catholic liturgy (the Ordinate) and recognizes all heterosexual Anglican marriages

Person you responded to.

No, it’s not. OP made it clear that they were a practicing Catholic; it’s completely unambiguous in Catholic doctrine that Protestant denominations are not in communion with the Pope, making them at least schismatic.

Your mention of “Anglo-Catholic training” obscures the key point that Pope Benedict specifically allowed Anglican communities to convert wholly to Catholicism; that’s very different from disavowing any difference with the Anglican Church writ large.

Marriages in Catholicism can be valid but not licit. Even assuming that OP’s marriage would be valid, it would absolutely not be licit within the Catholic Church, and OP’s circumstances do not justify any exception to the requirement of liceity.

this is moot, but while this is all correct on formal doctrine afaik, most practicing Catholics do not strictly believe all points of formal doctrine, to say the least. In particular, tons of practicing Catholics get married in Protestant or civil ceremonies, and Anglo-Catholicism was just an idea given its everything-but-Rome posture, and one taken by some gay Catholic couples for that reason. (Though I’m not sure there’s even a technical problem with a civil marriage in OP’s position so long as they do not cohabitate until later; obviously a matter for OP and their future spouse and priest.)