Stats to lateral into Hong Kong or London big law as a junior Forum

[Anonymous User]

For visa-related reasons, I am contemplating this move. Without Chinese skills and a T-14 degree, is this feasible? I am at big law currently but it is more regional than not.

[Anonymous User]

The easiest way to do this is probably to have your firm transfer you to their London office. I don’t know anything about HK. I’ve been at two firms and this is what both do for associates with visa issues.

If your firm doesn’t have a London office, can you start looking to lateral to a big NY firm with one? The other issue is that most firms’ London work for US JDs is in capital markets, which I think is pretty slow right now.

[Anonymous User]

"The easiest way to do this is probably to have your firm transfer you to their London office."

As a London lawyer, I respectfully disagree - American transfers are very uncommon, most Americans at US firms in London are partners and transfers which happen are usually at partner level. Separately, there are very few American qualified associates operating in the London market, those that are usually are in M&A, funds and finance.

I would move to a lower tax jurisdiction, including but not limited to HK, but I understand your rapacious government disrespects the tax laws of other jurisdictions and will continue to subject you to bullying, intimidation and threats until you hand over half of your salary to them from abroad. If there's a way out of that or you're not a US citizen go low or no tax.

[Anonymous User]

I don’t know where you practice law London lawyer but it sure ain’t at K&E, Cahill, Latham, Milbank, Sidley, Paul Hastings etc etc etc which have plenty of US to London associate transfers working in US cap markets. I went over as a second year to one of those, so did two other H1B losers…

[Anonymous User]

US firms typically send their H1B losers to their London or HK offices. US associates that do cap markets, funds or M&A are quite common at US firms there. There are even some US associates that went from HK or Seoul to London.

[Anonymous User]

"I don’t know where you practice law London lawyer but it sure ain’t at K&E, Cahill, Latham, Milbank, Sidley, Paul Hastings etc etc etc which have plenty of US to London associate transfers working in US cap markets. I went over as a second year to one of those, so did two other H1B losers…"

Urgh.

I've worked for one or two of these firms, and I find this response annoying.

PH, for example, where I haven't worked but I know people there, does not have US transfers, unless someone has transferred recently without my knowledge. There are two US partners in cap markets team there, there have been US associates in London - they were laterals from other firms, they never worked for PH overseas. Those two US associates in the cap markets team left recently as well.

I know a couple of the others very well you have listed where this is also not the case but won't out myself. Also when I say "this is not the case", I mean historically over not just one or two, but the last 10 years.

Cahill is a niche shop in London with no reputation, but I just went on the website and saw there are also precisely 0 US qualified associates in London cap markets listed.

I think I did indicate that some people may have transferred (you may be one of the very few), but this just isn't common. It really, really is not. Not at Debevoise, White & Case or others you've listed. MoFo, not that I'm aware. FF had someone transfer over who I think has gone back to NYC on the funds transactional side.

[Sad248]

For visa-related reasons, I am contemplating this move. Without Chinese skills and a T-14 degree, is this feasible? I am at big law currently but it is more regional than not.

It's definitely possible. I think HK might be harder, as they would look for Chinese skills, but it is not a complete necessity. I know a few associates who have transferred to London offices from US. Indeed, as others pointed out, most of these are for Capital Markets. However, I know a couple that have managed to convince their firm to send them out for a year or two whilst they are attempting to get their Visa situation in the US sorted, and who do not work in Capital Markets. I think, however, if you have to move to a different firm, your only way of approach is to become a capital markets lawyer..

[Anonymous User]

For visa-related reasons, I am contemplating this move. Without Chinese skills and a T-14 degree, is this feasible? I am at big law currently but it is more regional than not.

It's definitely possible. I think HK might be harder, as they would look for Chinese skills, but it is not a complete necessity. I know a few associates who have transferred to London offices from US. Indeed, as others pointed out, most of these are for Capital Markets. However, I know a couple that have managed to convince their firm to send them out for a year or two whilst they are attempting to get their Visa situation in the US sorted, and who do not work in Capital Markets. I think, however, if you have to move to a different firm, your only way of approach is to become a capital markets lawyer..

OP here. Thanks for the response. I am willing to do capital markets, but my firm does not do office transfers - I've already asked so I have to lateral. I just haven't seen any postings for US CM associates in London or HK. Is this even a thing? Would a recruiter deal with me when I'm <1 year in? Sorry for throwing things all over the board, but I just have no idea how to approach this.

[Anonymous User]

I'm the London poster from before. I don't know what you mean by postings. Firms in London don't post vacancies for example - similar to HK, it all done through recruiters. As I say, transfer moves don't really happen, and you'd have better luck going direct to recruiters via LinkedIn, any other response is wrong and naive.

Still really annoyed about that guy above telling me that firms I've worked at do transfers from US offices all the time like I'm some ignorant fool...the absolute audacity.

[Anonymous User]

I'm the London poster from before. I don't know what you mean by postings. Firms in London don't post vacancies for example - similar to HK, it all done through recruiters. As I say, transfer moves don't really happen, and you'd have better luck going direct to recruiters via LinkedIn, any other response is wrong and naive.

Still really annoyed about that guy above telling me that firms I've worked at do transfers from US offices all the time like I'm some ignorant fool...the absolute audacity.

I'm the original poster who suggested a requesting an inter-firm transfer to London. Sounds like you and the other poster just had different experiences/perceptions; you're both in London, but it happens. I'm NY-based and have worked at two different firms (a V10 and a V50) and personally know associates who have been transferred by each from NY to London because of visa issues (or personal preference), so your assertion that this doesn't happen at US firms except rarely at the partner level is not true.

OP - my understanding is that positions aren't actively posted that often. Maybe contact a recruiter who has placed associates into London? I still think looking for a NY-headquartered corporate firm with a big office in London is the better move. Firms you could look into are Simpson, PW, Latham, Cleary, Willkie.

[Anonymous User]

I'm the London poster from before. I don't know what you mean by postings. Firms in London don't post vacancies for example - similar to HK, it all done through recruiters. As I say, transfer moves don't really happen, and you'd have better luck going direct to recruiters via LinkedIn, any other response is wrong and naive.

Still really annoyed about that guy above telling me that firms I've worked at do transfers from US offices all the time like I'm some ignorant fool...the absolute audacity.

I'm the original poster who suggested a requesting an inter-firm transfer to London. Sounds like you and the other poster just had different experiences/perceptions; you're both in London, but it happens. I'm NY-based and have worked at two different firms (a V10 and a V50) and personally know associates who have been transferred by each from NY to London because of visa issues (or personal preference), so your assertion that this doesn't happen at US firms except rarely at the partner level is not true.

OP - my understanding is that positions aren't actively posted that often. Maybe contact a recruiter who has placed associates into London? I still think looking for a NY-headquartered corporate firm with a big office in London is the better move. Firms you could look into are Simpson, PW, Latham, Cleary, Willkie.

Sorry you're the poster that was chatting bollocks above and you're continuing to do so despite me systematically shutting you down. I was also very very VERY clear that it CAN happen - and even gave an example from FF - but it is ABSOLUTELY F'ING RARE AND BASICALLY FOR INTENTS AND PURPOSES DOES NOT HAPPEN.

It's not my "experience" - it just is the case. I took you through about a dozen firms above which don't have a single transfer. Not a single one of those currently has an associate transfer. The sheer audacity for you to suggest it's my "experience" and then to state that PW has a "big office in London" - you don't know what you are talking about...!!!! PW has 20 associates in London - and it's a novelty firm, which is unlike other US firms In London as it takes almost entirely Americans; there is perhaps one British associate in that office. It's not like Latham or PH etc. And by the way, for the most American office in London, it has - guess what - about (and I'm pretty sure, it's only) 1 person who has transferred from the US to London.

[Anonymous User]

Also while I'm at it - Cleary and Willkie have very small offices in London too.

[Anonymous User]

HK is an incredibly competitive market considering the current market/economy and lowering legal fees. There are a lot of bilingual T-14 JDs working under alternative titles ("pre-associate" legal assistant, transaction manager, legal manager, etc., with a salary of 1/3 or half of the first year pay). That being said, no harm to try to contact a recruiter knowing the market well.

[Anonymous User]

honestly don't know why are you considering HK or London. I can't speak for London, but I'd rather stay in NY than HK, in terms of CoL, work, and advancement.

[Wubbles]

honestly don't know why are you considering HK or London. I can't speak for London, but I'd rather stay in NY than HK, in terms of CoL, work, and advancement.

OP said for visa reasons, i.e. can't be in NY

[Anonymous User]

The difficulty with London is that you will have missed the two year "training contract". In the past you might get away with that, but in this market they might ask you to become a trainee and take the exams.