Help me choose between WSGR and MoFo (SV) Forum

[Anonymous User]

I've been fortunate to have offers from both and need help choosing. Hoping to pursue general corporate or emerging company/venture capital work. Right now, I feel like WSGR has the edge in practice area but I got a better vibe culture wise from the MoFo folks. I have 17 years of prior experience so I am biasing more towards a culture fit but need some help balancing the two. Would appreciate any input.

[trmckenz]

Generally speaking, WSGR for transactional, and MoFo for litigation.

[Anonymous User]

What are you joining as? Associate? Partner?

[DanBoMingLi]

For EC/VC I’d go WSGR and it’s not even close. WSGR is a top shop for that type of work, along with Cooley, Fenwick, and Gunderson.

MoFo is an excellent option, but not in the same league for EC/VC as the home offices of the above.

[Anonymous User]

MoFo has a terrible culture - don't let them fool you.

[Anonymous User]

WSGR's culture also sucks. (I used to be a corporate associate there before bailing.) But I don't think they laid off, unlike Gunderson, Cooley, etc.

[charles117]

MoFo also just lost their biggest bank client (SVB)

[Anonymous User]

MoFo SV culture > WSGR is the prevailing wisdom at SLS

[Anonymous User]

Current associate at WSGR; there were definitely substantial stealth layoffs, and hours are low across the board. I would not join WSGR given what's going on right now.

[Anonymous User]

Current associate at WSGR; there were definitely substantial stealth layoffs, and hours are low across the board. I would not join WSGR given what's going on right now.

Why would MoFo corporate be any better?

[Anonymous User]

MoFo SV culture > WSGR is the prevailing wisdom at SLS

This is actually interesting, because MoFo SV was consistently underbid at Cal (I graduated in the ‘20-‘22 range).

[Anonymous User]

Current associate at WSGR; there were definitely substantial stealth layoffs, and hours are low across the board. I would not join WSGR given what's going on right now.

I am a partner at WSGR and I will note that there have not been "stealth layoffs" - there have been, in my group, performance based terminations. This happens at every firm unfortunately - its a tough job.

I think people forget that people do get fired for performance at law firms. Just because people get fired outside of an announced mass layoff does not mean a firm conducted a "stealth layoff".

[Anonymous User]

Current associate at WSGR; there were definitely substantial stealth layoffs, and hours are low across the board. I would not join WSGR given what's going on right now.

I am a partner at WSGR and I will note that there have not been "stealth layoffs" - there have been, in my group, performance based terminations. This happens at every firm unfortunately - its a tough job.

I think people forget that people do get fired for performance at law firms. Just because people get fired outside of an announced mass layoff does not mean a firm conducted a "stealth layoff".

Do you think there will be actual layoffs?

[Anonymous User]

Current associate at WSGR; there were definitely substantial stealth layoffs, and hours are low across the board. I would not join WSGR given what's going on right now.

I am a partner at WSGR and I will note that there have not been "stealth layoffs" - there have been, in my group, performance based terminations. This happens at every firm unfortunately - its a tough job.

I think people forget that people do get fired for performance at law firms. Just because people get fired outside of an announced mass layoff does not mean a firm conducted a "stealth layoff".

Do you think there will be actual layoffs?

Same partner as above.

It has been discussed given that most of our competitors have had layoffs, but the firm decided not to. Things can change, but right now there is no plan to do so.

[Anonymous User]

MoFo SV culture > WSGR is the prevailing wisdom at SLS

This is actually interesting, because MoFo SV was consistently underbid at Cal (I graduated in the ‘20-‘22 range).

At the T4 I went to (not Stanford obviously), no one my year (same range of years) went to MoFo because of a combo of weird vibes and hilariously high grade cutoffs. Don’t really understand their recruiting strategy but good for them I guess, really going for the Cravath of SF.

FWIW I’m an associate at WSGR and would likely never lateral to another firm (I don’t think the grass would be greener), but it can also be group dependent and there are plenty of bad stories to match my good ones.

Weirdly, I’ve only seen MoFo on one of my deals, where they were representing an investor in one of my clients. Otherwise, I’m actually not terribly sure what they do on the corporate side? Have worked across from Cooley/GD/Orrick/Goodwin a ton and even CSM/Skadden/DPW more than them on the larger company/transaction side. Obviously will not deny they are very very solid on the lit side, but would go somewhere else for interesting corporate.

[Anonymous User]

Current associate at WSGR; there were definitely substantial stealth layoffs, and hours are low across the board. I would not join WSGR given what's going on right now.

I am a partner at WSGR and I will note that there have not been "stealth layoffs" - there have been, in my group, performance based terminations. This happens at every firm unfortunately - its a tough job.

I think people forget that people do get fired for performance at law firms. Just because people get fired outside of an announced mass layoff does not mean a firm conducted a "stealth layoff".

Do you think there will be actual layoffs?

Same partner as above.

It has been discussed given that most of our competitors have had layoffs, but the firm decided not to. Things can change, but right now there is no plan to do so.

LOL @ this partner. Was a WSGR associate who was "stealthed." Received a PIP even though I was on pace to bill 1,950 hours. Let's not put lipstick on a pig. I would avoid WSGR at all costs. HR was terrible. Reasons in my PIP were also factually incorrect and despite providing proof, nothing. Terminated. Oh well. Unemployment was nice. Found a better job at higher ranked firm with nicer people. Don't buy into the WSGR kool-aid.

[Anonymous User]

Would appreciate it if you could reveal general practice group since you landed on your feet. Current associate with very low hours and afraid of getting cut any day. Was website time two months or three months?

[Anonymous User]

Would appreciate it if you could reveal general practice group since you landed on your feet. Current associate with very low hours and afraid of getting cut any day. Was website time two months or three months?

EC/VC -- mostly early stage first circle companies. 3 months ish.

[Anonymous User]

Would appreciate it if you could reveal general practice group since you landed on your feet. Current associate with very low hours and afraid of getting cut any day. Was website time two months or three months?

EC/VC -- mostly early stage first circle companies. 3 months ish.

[Anonymous User]

Current associate at WSGR; there were definitely substantial stealth layoffs, and hours are low across the board. I would not join WSGR given what's going on right now.

I am a partner at WSGR and I will note that there have not been "stealth layoffs" - there have been, in my group, performance based terminations. This happens at every firm unfortunately - its a tough job.

I think people forget that people do get fired for performance at law firms. Just because people get fired outside of an announced mass layoff does not mean a firm conducted a "stealth layoff".

Do you think there will be actual layoffs?

Same partner as above.

It has been discussed given that most of our competitors have had layoffs, but the firm decided not to. Things can change, but right now there is no plan to do so.

LOL @ this partner. Was a WSGR associate who was "stealthed." Received a PIP even though I was on pace to bill 1,950 hours. Let's not put lipstick on a pig. I would avoid WSGR at all costs. HR was terrible. Reasons in my PIP were also factually incorrect and despite providing proof, nothing. Terminated. Oh well. Unemployment was nice. Found a better job at higher ranked firm with nicer people. Don't buy into the WSGR kool-aid.

Same partner as above. I am sorry this happened to you, but a single termination isn't evidence of a stealth layoff. Stealth layoffs refer to widespread terminations that aren't disclosed to the rest of the firm.

People get fired for performance at every firm. Many of those people nonetheless bill the bonus target hours. This is not unique to WSGR.

[Anonymous User]

Current associate at WSGR; there were definitely substantial stealth layoffs, and hours are low across the board. I would not join WSGR given what's going on right now.

I am a partner at WSGR and I will note that there have not been "stealth layoffs" - there have been, in my group, performance based terminations. This happens at every firm unfortunately - its a tough job.

I think people forget that people do get fired for performance at law firms. Just because people get fired outside of an announced mass layoff does not mean a firm conducted a "stealth layoff".

Do you think there will be actual layoffs?

Same partner as above.

It has been discussed given that most of our competitors have had layoffs, but the firm decided not to. Things can change, but right now there is no plan to do so.

LOL @ this partner. Was a WSGR associate who was "stealthed." Received a PIP even though I was on pace to bill 1,950 hours. Let's not put lipstick on a pig. I would avoid WSGR at all costs. HR was terrible. Reasons in my PIP were also factually incorrect and despite providing proof, nothing. Terminated. Oh well. Unemployment was nice. Found a better job at higher ranked firm with nicer people. Don't buy into the WSGR kool-aid.

Same partner as above. I am sorry this happened to you, but a single termination isn't evidence of a stealth layoff. Stealth layoffs refer to widespread terminations that aren't disclosed to the rest of the firm.

People get fired for performance at every firm. Many of those people nonetheless bill the bonus target hours. This is not unique to WSGR.

Same "stealthed" WSGR associate as above. Agreed, a single termination isn't evident of a widespread pattern, but, having read through this forum for the past several months, as well as having friends at the firm who have found themselves in a similar position, I would refer to my termination, as well as others I have known in the past several months, as "stealthed."

WSGR markets itself as a firm wherein you can work with great individuals, on "cool" matters, with "groundbreaking" companies. What they don't tell you, however, is that the firm is incredibly siloed. You interview into a group, thinking its "free market," but in reality, that group, and namely, one or two partners, control your destiny. If you don't click, or laugh at their jokes, etc, you will find ourself on the way out. Sure, you can try and reach out to other partners in different groups, but they have to get the sign off from your siloed group partner. So once the waters are tainted, you are done, despite the firm marketing itself as a place where you can "choose your own path." I'd simply avoid.

If you have the choice of working at a different firm, I'd go there. I lateraled in, thinking it was great, boy was I wrong. Thankfully, I've found a much better firm, better reputation and kinder people. Do yourself a favor.

[Anonymous User]

Current associate at WSGR; there were definitely substantial stealth layoffs, and hours are low across the board. I would not join WSGR given what's going on right now.

I am a partner at WSGR and I will note that there have not been "stealth layoffs" - there have been, in my group, performance based terminations. This happens at every firm unfortunately - its a tough job.

I think people forget that people do get fired for performance at law firms. Just because people get fired outside of an announced mass layoff does not mean a firm conducted a "stealth layoff".

Do you think there will be actual layoffs?

Same partner as above.

It has been discussed given that most of our competitors have had layoffs, but the firm decided not to. Things can change, but right now there is no plan to do so.

LOL @ this partner. Was a WSGR associate who was "stealthed." Received a PIP even though I was on pace to bill 1,950 hours. Let's not put lipstick on a pig. I would avoid WSGR at all costs. HR was terrible. Reasons in my PIP were also factually incorrect and despite providing proof, nothing. Terminated. Oh well. Unemployment was nice. Found a better job at higher ranked firm with nicer people. Don't buy into the WSGR kool-aid.

Same partner as above. I am sorry this happened to you, but a single termination isn't evidence of a stealth layoff. Stealth layoffs refer to widespread terminations that aren't disclosed to the rest of the firm.

People get fired for performance at every firm. Many of those people nonetheless bill the bonus target hours. This is not unique to WSGR.

Same "stealthed" WSGR associate as above. Agreed, a single termination isn't evident of a widespread pattern, but, having read through this forum for the past several months, as well as having friends at the firm who have found themselves in a similar position, I would refer to my termination, as well as others I have known in the past several months, as "stealthed."

WSGR markets itself as a firm wherein you can work with great individuals, on "cool" matters, with "groundbreaking" companies. What they don't tell you, however, is that the firm is incredibly siloed. You interview into a group, thinking its "free market," but in reality, that group, and namely, one or two partners, control your destiny. If you don't click, or laugh at their jokes, etc, you will find ourself on the way out. Sure, you can try and reach out to other partners in different groups, but they have to get the sign off from your siloed group partner. So once the waters are tainted, you are done, despite the firm marketing itself as a place where you can "choose your own path." I'd simply avoid.

If you have the choice of working at a different firm, I'd go there. I lateraled in, thinking it was great, boy was I wrong. Thankfully, I've found a much better firm, better reputation and kinder people. Do yourself a favor.

Current associate at WSGR; would agree, and advise people away from WSGR if they have options at other tech firms. The firm is unbelievably siloed; it's almost impossible to get work from other groups, and often extremely difficult to get work from other partners within your practice group.

[Anonymous User]

I am a partner at WSGR and I will note that there have not been "stealth layoffs" - there have been, in my group, performance based terminations. This happens at every firm unfortunately - its a tough job.

I think people forget that people do get fired for performance at law firms. Just because people get fired outside of an announced mass layoff does not mean a firm conducted a "stealth layoff".

Do you think there will be actual layoffs?

Same partner as above.

It has been discussed given that most of our competitors have had layoffs, but the firm decided not to. Things can change, but right now there is no plan to do so.

LOL @ this partner. Was a WSGR associate who was "stealthed." Received a PIP even though I was on pace to bill 1,950 hours. Let's not put lipstick on a pig. I would avoid WSGR at all costs. HR was terrible. Reasons in my PIP were also factually incorrect and despite providing proof, nothing. Terminated. Oh well. Unemployment was nice. Found a better job at higher ranked firm with nicer people. Don't buy into the WSGR kool-aid.

Same partner as above. I am sorry this happened to you, but a single termination isn't evidence of a stealth layoff. Stealth layoffs refer to widespread terminations that aren't disclosed to the rest of the firm.

People get fired for performance at every firm. Many of those people nonetheless bill the bonus target hours. This is not unique to WSGR.

Same "stealthed" WSGR associate as above. Agreed, a single termination isn't evident of a widespread pattern, but, having read through this forum for the past several months, as well as having friends at the firm who have found themselves in a similar position, I would refer to my termination, as well as others I have known in the past several months, as "stealthed."

WSGR markets itself as a firm wherein you can work with great individuals, on "cool" matters, with "groundbreaking" companies. What they don't tell you, however, is that the firm is incredibly siloed. You interview into a group, thinking its "free market," but in reality, that group, and namely, one or two partners, control your destiny. If you don't click, or laugh at their jokes, etc, you will find ourself on the way out. Sure, you can try and reach out to other partners in different groups, but they have to get the sign off from your siloed group partner. So once the waters are tainted, you are done, despite the firm marketing itself as a place where you can "choose your own path." I'd simply avoid.

If you have the choice of working at a different firm, I'd go there. I lateraled in, thinking it was great, boy was I wrong. Thankfully, I've found a much better firm, better reputation and kinder people. Do yourself a favor.

Current associate at WSGR; would agree, and advise people away from WSGR if they have options at other tech firms. The firm is unbelievably siloed; it's almost impossible to get work from other groups, and often extremely difficult to get work from other partners within your practice group.

How long are you tethered to your partner(s)? If you don’t click, wouldn’t they want to pass you to another partner (maybe one they don’t like)?

[Anonymous User]

Do you think there will be actual layoffs?

Same partner as above.

It has been discussed given that most of our competitors have had layoffs, but the firm decided not to. Things can change, but right now there is no plan to do so.

LOL @ this partner. Was a WSGR associate who was "stealthed." Received a PIP even though I was on pace to bill 1,950 hours. Let's not put lipstick on a pig. I would avoid WSGR at all costs. HR was terrible. Reasons in my PIP were also factually incorrect and despite providing proof, nothing. Terminated. Oh well. Unemployment was nice. Found a better job at higher ranked firm with nicer people. Don't buy into the WSGR kool-aid.

Same partner as above. I am sorry this happened to you, but a single termination isn't evidence of a stealth layoff. Stealth layoffs refer to widespread terminations that aren't disclosed to the rest of the firm.

People get fired for performance at every firm. Many of those people nonetheless bill the bonus target hours. This is not unique to WSGR.

Same "stealthed" WSGR associate as above. Agreed, a single termination isn't evident of a widespread pattern, but, having read through this forum for the past several months, as well as having friends at the firm who have found themselves in a similar position, I would refer to my termination, as well as others I have known in the past several months, as "stealthed."

WSGR markets itself as a firm wherein you can work with great individuals, on "cool" matters, with "groundbreaking" companies. What they don't tell you, however, is that the firm is incredibly siloed. You interview into a group, thinking its "free market," but in reality, that group, and namely, one or two partners, control your destiny. If you don't click, or laugh at their jokes, etc, you will find ourself on the way out. Sure, you can try and reach out to other partners in different groups, but they have to get the sign off from your siloed group partner. So once the waters are tainted, you are done, despite the firm marketing itself as a place where you can "choose your own path." I'd simply avoid.

If you have the choice of working at a different firm, I'd go there. I lateraled in, thinking it was great, boy was I wrong. Thankfully, I've found a much better firm, better reputation and kinder people. Do yourself a favor.

Current associate at WSGR; would agree, and advise people away from WSGR if they have options at other tech firms. The firm is unbelievably siloed; it's almost impossible to get work from other groups, and often extremely difficult to get work from other partners within your practice group.

How long are you tethered to your partner(s)? If you don’t click, wouldn’t they want to pass you to another partner (maybe one they don’t like)?

In my experience, forever. No, because it's biglaw and there's no rationality; they would rather starve you of work for a year and then let you go instead of letting you move to another group or work for other partners.

[Anonymous User]

Same partner as above.

It has been discussed given that most of our competitors have had layoffs, but the firm decided not to. Things can change, but right now there is no plan to do so.

LOL @ this partner. Was a WSGR associate who was "stealthed." Received a PIP even though I was on pace to bill 1,950 hours. Let's not put lipstick on a pig. I would avoid WSGR at all costs. HR was terrible. Reasons in my PIP were also factually incorrect and despite providing proof, nothing. Terminated. Oh well. Unemployment was nice. Found a better job at higher ranked firm with nicer people. Don't buy into the WSGR kool-aid.

Same partner as above. I am sorry this happened to you, but a single termination isn't evidence of a stealth layoff. Stealth layoffs refer to widespread terminations that aren't disclosed to the rest of the firm.

People get fired for performance at every firm. Many of those people nonetheless bill the bonus target hours. This is not unique to WSGR.

Same "stealthed" WSGR associate as above. Agreed, a single termination isn't evident of a widespread pattern, but, having read through this forum for the past several months, as well as having friends at the firm who have found themselves in a similar position, I would refer to my termination, as well as others I have known in the past several months, as "stealthed."

WSGR markets itself as a firm wherein you can work with great individuals, on "cool" matters, with "groundbreaking" companies. What they don't tell you, however, is that the firm is incredibly siloed. You interview into a group, thinking its "free market," but in reality, that group, and namely, one or two partners, control your destiny. If you don't click, or laugh at their jokes, etc, you will find ourself on the way out. Sure, you can try and reach out to other partners in different groups, but they have to get the sign off from your siloed group partner. So once the waters are tainted, you are done, despite the firm marketing itself as a place where you can "choose your own path." I'd simply avoid.

If you have the choice of working at a different firm, I'd go there. I lateraled in, thinking it was great, boy was I wrong. Thankfully, I've found a much better firm, better reputation and kinder people. Do yourself a favor.

Current associate at WSGR; would agree, and advise people away from WSGR if they have options at other tech firms. The firm is unbelievably siloed; it's almost impossible to get work from other groups, and often extremely difficult to get work from other partners within your practice group.

How long are you tethered to your partner(s)? If you don’t click, wouldn’t they want to pass you to another partner (maybe one they don’t like)?

In my experience, forever. No, because it's biglaw and there's no rationality; they would rather starve you of work for a year and then let you go instead of letting you move to another group or work for other partners.

How many people have been stealthed if you had to guess?