BigLaw to PD Forum

[Anonymous User]

BigLaw associate here that has an upcoming interview with my city’s PD office. My loans are down to a manageable 50k or so and I’ve always liked the idea of doing PD work, so I decided to explore the option.

Does anyone here have experience with making this move? As far as long term options, would I be closing the gate forever to going back to civil private practice?

Also, they asked for references. My firm doesn’t know I’m looking, but would it be appropriate to explain I can provide references if I accept an offer? I didn’t clerk so I don’t know who else would give a reference given that I’ve been out of school a few years. I could ask my mom I guess

[nixy]

I doubt they're going to let you hold off on references until you've *accepted* an offer - maybe they'll be willing to make an offer contingent on positive references, but that's the best I can imagine, and I think that's unlikely as well. Is there no one at your firm you can ask in confidence? Or any profs or people you worked for in law school?

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

I don’t have personal experience but someone I like and respect made this move from my prior big law firm. Good luck!

[Anonymous User]

I doubt they're going to let you hold off on references until you've *accepted* an offer - maybe they'll be willing to make an offer contingent on positive references, but that's the best I can imagine, and I think that's unlikely as well. Is there no one at your firm you can ask in confidence? Or any profs or people you worked for in law school?

I could, but probably I’ll go to the interview and just ask what they want me to do first. A potential problem is also that I have not just been applying to PI jobs but also rival firms lol. So if I ask them to be a reference and the PD doesn’t work out it may look not great to be like “thanks for the reference, turns out I’m lateraling!”

[nixy]

I doubt they're going to let you hold off on references until you've *accepted* an offer - maybe they'll be willing to make an offer contingent on positive references, but that's the best I can imagine, and I think that's unlikely as well. Is there no one at your firm you can ask in confidence? Or any profs or people you worked for in law school?

I could, but probably I’ll go to the interview and just ask what they want me to do first. A potential problem is also that I have not just been applying to PI jobs but also rival firms lol. So if I ask them to be a reference and the PD doesn’t work out it may look not great to be like “thanks for the reference, turns out I’m lateraling!”

Yeah, see what they say first. I think you're overthinking it a little though - people change jobs all the time, and if you have someone you trust at your firm who's willing to say good things about you to a prospective employer, it's not really going to matter whether you leave for the PD or another firm. (Don't at least some firms out there ask for references?)

[Anonymous User]

I doubt they're going to let you hold off on references until you've *accepted* an offer - maybe they'll be willing to make an offer contingent on positive references, but that's the best I can imagine, and I think that's unlikely as well. Is there no one at your firm you can ask in confidence? Or any profs or people you worked for in law school?

I could, but probably I’ll go to the interview and just ask what they want me to do first. A potential problem is also that I have not just been applying to PI jobs but also rival firms lol. So if I ask them to be a reference and the PD doesn’t work out it may look not great to be like “thanks for the reference, turns out I’m lateraling!”

Yeah, see what they say first. I think you're overthinking it a little though - people change jobs all the time, and if you have someone you trust at your firm who's willing to say good things about you to a prospective employer, it's not really going to matter whether you leave for the PD or another firm. (Don't at least some firms out there ask for references?)

Probably true. I’m sure some firms do. None of the ones I’ve interviewed with did, including my current firm. Probably because they know they will lose applicants over it in what has become a hush-hush process.

[Dcc617]

Do you have to provide references from your current firm? Couldn’t you just provide other references?

[Anonymous User]

Do you have to provide references from your current firm? Couldn’t you just provide other references?

Yeah, maybe. I will ask them what they want. I just don’t know who the other professional references would be. I feel like I’m too far removed from law school for professor references to be valuable. Since it’s criminal work maybe they’ll just want personal references though. I’ve certainly been hit up randomly by law enforcement for friends in those positions that listed me as a reference (without telling me first, but I digress).

[Anonymous User]

Do you have to provide references from your current firm? Couldn’t you just provide other references?

Yeah, maybe. I will ask them what they want. I just don’t know who the other professional references would be. I feel like I’m too far removed from law school for professor references to be valuable. Since it’s criminal work maybe they’ll just want personal references though. I’ve certainly been hit up randomly by law enforcement for friends in those positions that listed me as a reference (without telling me first, but I digress).

I think you're kind of mixing up references for getting hired, and references for passing a background check. To get the job, they're going to want to see professional references, and if you're not willing to ask anyone at your firm, you're stuck with using law school profs (or supervisors from law school jobs). Once you have an offer and they do the background check, that's when you have to provide personal references and law enforcement starts hitting up your friends and family. But personal references won't fly for convincing them to make you an offer.

(That said, I don't think PDs usually have to go through the same background check as prosecutors, but that doesn't really address your issue about references to get the job in the first place.)

[Dcc617]

You could also use friends at the firm, as opposed to partners.

I also think it’s more important to have references that as opposed to using partners or supervisors or anything. I also think it’s doubtful most PD offices will even call them.

[Anonymous User]

BigLaw associate here that has an upcoming interview with my city’s PD office. My loans are down to a manageable 50k or so and I’ve always liked the idea of doing PD work, so I decided to explore the option.

Does anyone here have experience with making this move? As far as long term options, would I be closing the gate forever to going back to civil private practice?

Also, they asked for references. My firm doesn’t know I’m looking, but would it be appropriate to explain I can provide references if I accept an offer? I didn’t clerk so I don’t know who else would give a reference given that I’ve been out of school a few years. I could ask my mom I guess

I'm a prosecutor. I've lost count of how many of my public defender friends fled biglaw jobs. You're doing this makes you a pretty normal and sane human being, except you've also chosen to learn how to become a real trial lawyer.

So you are absolutely not closing the door to civil practice. Your future options are expanding. Civil litigators in the year 2023 have no real way of getting trial experience. There are literally 20 and 25 year biglaw attorneys out there--partners--who can bluff a pretty good game but they have no effing clue how to run a jury trial. Dealing with these people (which I do) is absolutely hilarious. They try to hide the fact that they are mortally terrified inside their head, but we always know. The only real way to get trial experience these days is criminal law. In civil it's possible if practicing small law, but still not that easy and not that frequent (and the training will be crap).

[Anonymous User]

BigLaw associate here that has an upcoming interview with my city’s PD office. My loans are down to a manageable 50k or so and I’ve always liked the idea of doing PD work, so I decided to explore the option.

Does anyone here have experience with making this move? As far as long term options, would I be closing the gate forever to going back to civil private practice?

Also, they asked for references. My firm doesn’t know I’m looking, but would it be appropriate to explain I can provide references if I accept an offer? I didn’t clerk so I don’t know who else would give a reference given that I’ve been out of school a few years. I could ask my mom I guess

I'm a prosecutor. I've lost count of how many of my public defender friends fled biglaw jobs. You're doing this makes you a pretty normal and sane human being, except you've also chosen to learn how to become a real trial lawyer.

So you are absolutely not closing the door to civil practice. Your future options are expanding. Civil litigators in the year 2023 have no real way of getting trial experience. There are literally 20 and 25 year biglaw attorneys out there--partners--who can bluff a pretty good game but they have no effing clue how to run a jury trial. Dealing with these people (which I do) is absolutely hilarious. They try to hide the fact that they are mortally terrified inside their head, but we always know. The only real way to get trial experience these days is criminal law. In civil it's possible if practicing small law, but still not that easy and not that frequent (and the training will be crap).

Thanks

[Anonymous User]

BigLaw associate here that has an upcoming interview with my city’s PD office. My loans are down to a manageable 50k or so and I’ve always liked the idea of doing PD work, so I decided to explore the option.

Does anyone here have experience with making this move? As far as long term options, would I be closing the gate forever to going back to civil private practice?

Also, they asked for references. My firm doesn’t know I’m looking, but would it be appropriate to explain I can provide references if I accept an offer? I didn’t clerk so I don’t know who else would give a reference given that I’ve been out of school a few years. I could ask my mom I guess

I'm a prosecutor. I've lost count of how many of my public defender friends fled biglaw jobs. You're doing this makes you a pretty normal and sane human being, except you've also chosen to learn how to become a real trial lawyer.

So you are absolutely not closing the door to civil practice. Your future options are expanding. Civil litigators in the year 2023 have no real way of getting trial experience. There are literally 20 and 25 year biglaw attorneys out there--partners--who can bluff a pretty good game but they have no effing clue how to run a jury trial. Dealing with these people (which I do) is absolutely hilarious. They try to hide the fact that they are mortally terrified inside their head, but we always know. The only real way to get trial experience these days is criminal law. In civil it's possible if practicing small law, but still not that easy and not that frequent (and the training will be crap).

Thanks

Same poster here. I didn't ultimately answer your real question: Not only do I know biglaw attorneys who became PDs, but I also know PDs who went back into civil. Breaking back into biglaw is probably doable, but most lawyers after they've reached their 5 or 10 year mark have zero interest in biglaw because of better opportunities.

The smartest former-PD-now-civil lawyer I know is a guy with decades of experience, who seems to knows everyone in our state. Federal judges have him on speed dial, that sort of thing. The lesson for the rest of us: Keep up your networking even if you go into PD world. Stay active in bar association and other stuff where you're still connected to people outside of criminal law.

[Anonymous User]

BL refugee who is an AFPD now.

I do not regret the move and absolutely love my job. I'll rebut a little, but you will be closing doors. There's just no 2 ways about it. It's going to be a lot harder to go become an in house attorney (if that was ever a goal of yours), going back to BL will be difficult if you do this too long, etc.

From the state PD office, the friends I know who went BL to PD to something else generally either went solo, to a smaller firm, state govt, or insurance defense (better pay, worse hours, less stress, more money, worse benefits). I have 1 mentor who went like this though- BL 2 years, PD office 1 year, AFPD 2 years, AUSA 2 years, BL counsel white collar. But only ever seen him do that and it was in a bygone era. I've also seen 1 friend go clerkship, AFPD, BL white collar. She does predominantly white collar work but I think she might do some general employment lit as well.

If you become an AFPD, you will more easily be able to jump back to BL though.

As far as references, I had some from my firm and my judge from my clerkship. I asked them to wait on the firm ones until later, but gave an associate first who I worked with and was friendly with who generally knew of my desire to leave. I think they only talked to my judge. They didn't talk to anyone else that I know of/ at least my references never told me they were contacted. I think it is fine to ask them to wait though.

[VirginiaFan]

BL refugee who is an AFPD now.

I do not regret the move and absolutely love my job. I'll rebut a little, but you will be closing doors. There's just no 2 ways about it. It's going to be a lot harder to go become an in house attorney (if that was ever a goal of yours), going back to BL will be difficult if you do this too long, etc.

From the state PD office, the friends I know who went BL to PD to something else generally either went solo, to a smaller firm, state govt, or insurance defense (better pay, worse hours, less stress, more money, worse benefits). I have 1 mentor who went like this though- BL 2 years, PD office 1 year, AFPD 2 years, AUSA 2 years, BL counsel white collar. But only ever seen him do that and it was in a bygone era. I've also seen 1 friend go clerkship, AFPD, BL white collar. She does predominantly white collar work but I think she might do some general employment lit as well.

If you become an AFPD, you will more easily be able to jump back to BL though.

As far as references, I had some from my firm and my judge from my clerkship. I asked them to wait on the firm ones until later, but gave an associate first who I worked with and was friendly with who generally knew of my desire to leave. I think they only talked to my judge. They didn't talk to anyone else that I know of/ at least my references never told me they were contacted. I think it is fine to ask them to wait though.

Hey, I'm trying to make this exact transition (for a career though, not returning to commercial lit). Would you mind DM'ing me?

[andythefir]

It’s wild to me that a biglaw person interviewing to be a PD would need references. In my region 100% of rural PD applicants get jobs, 100% of ADA applicants get the job, and I’m sure someone with biglaw credentials would either A get the job or B be banned for being too corporate/sellout/didn’t drink the kool aid from the first minute of law school and are therefore forever shunned-a fact pattern for which having positive biglaw references would hurt more than help.

[nixy]

It’s wild to me that a biglaw person interviewing to be a PD would need references. In my region 100% of rural PD applicants get jobs, 100% of ADA applicants get the job, and I’m sure someone with biglaw credentials would either A get the job or B be banned for being too corporate/sellout/didn’t drink the kool aid from the first minute of law school and are therefore forever shunned-a fact pattern for which having positive biglaw references would hurt more than help.

If they’re working biglaw, they’re probably in a major metro where there’s actually competition for the job.

[Dcc617]

I did biglaw to PD. I know most PD offices are understaffed and hiring at the moment.

[VirginiaFan]

I did biglaw to PD. I know most PD offices are understaffed and hiring at the moment.

Would you PM me? Trying to switch from biglaw to FPD.