Economic Edge on Smaller Firms and Boutiques Forum
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EmilyM54
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Economic Edge on Smaller Firms and Boutiques
Is it true that small firms and boutiques will have an economic edge over larger law firms in the upcoming years? Is it a good idea to apply to a small firm instead of a large law firm in 2023? Would it provide more job security? What are the pros and cons of working for a smaller firm? Any ideas are greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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ignorantfoot96
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Re: Economic Edge on Smaller Firms and Boutiques
No I don't think small firms or boutiques would have an economic edge. For one thing large firms have diversity in their practice group for counter-cyclical economic times. They also typically have large institutional clients that are always doing "something" even if it might be less. Small firms generally (and boutiques especially) are highly specialized. However, size does not necessarily mean profitability, Dentons and the other MEGA firms are not more profitable than other large law firms and there are plenty of extremely successfully boutiques that percentage wise outpace large law firms. It's very firm dependent (practice groups success, leverage, etc).EmilyM54 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 02, 2023 7:47 pmIs it true that small firms and boutiques will have an economic edge over larger law firms in the upcoming years? Is it a good idea to apply to a small firm instead of a large law firm in 2023? Would it provide more job security? What are the pros and cons of working for a smaller firm? Any ideas are greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Anonymous User
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Re: Economic Edge on Smaller Firms and Boutiques
Senior lawyer here who has worked at a small local firm before. Pros and cons off the top of my head:
Pros:
a. If the owners are not toxic personalities, it's like being part of a cozy family or softball team. (And there probably is a softball team.)
b. Work expectations are easy to figure out and easy to manage, since there's no dealing with the complex interpersonal politics of an institution run by hundreds of blowhards.
c. Super easy to make friends with other associates, and staff. You're all in it together. Bonding happens quickly, and endures for a lifetime even if you leave.
Cons:
a. The owners might have toxic personalities, in which case you are effed.
b. If you don't show up for softball, you're going to get yelled at.
c. Someone is definitely banging someone else within the office and it will take you a long time to figure that out, if you ever even do. The impact on you whether you know it or not will be massive. If this relationship goes sour, all hell will break loose. (But on the pro side, it might be super entertaining too.)
Pros:
a. If the owners are not toxic personalities, it's like being part of a cozy family or softball team. (And there probably is a softball team.)
b. Work expectations are easy to figure out and easy to manage, since there's no dealing with the complex interpersonal politics of an institution run by hundreds of blowhards.
c. Super easy to make friends with other associates, and staff. You're all in it together. Bonding happens quickly, and endures for a lifetime even if you leave.
Cons:
a. The owners might have toxic personalities, in which case you are effed.
b. If you don't show up for softball, you're going to get yelled at.
c. Someone is definitely banging someone else within the office and it will take you a long time to figure that out, if you ever even do. The impact on you whether you know it or not will be massive. If this relationship goes sour, all hell will break loose. (But on the pro side, it might be super entertaining too.)
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Moneytrees
- Posts: 934
- Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:41 pm
Re: Economic Edge on Smaller Firms and Boutiques
No, smaller firms generally suffer more than larger firms in economic downturns.EmilyM54 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 02, 2023 7:47 pmIs it true that small firms and boutiques will have an economic edge over larger law firms in the upcoming years? Is it a good idea to apply to a small firm instead of a large law firm in 2023? Would it provide more job security? What are the pros and cons of working for a smaller firm? Any ideas are greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Anonymous User
- Posts: 432633
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Economic Edge on Smaller Firms and Boutiques
Hilarious (and true)Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:57 pmSenior lawyer here who has worked at a small local firm before. Pros and cons off the top of my head:
Pros:
a. If the owners are not toxic personalities, it's like being part of a cozy family or softball team. (And there probably is a softball team.)
b. Work expectations are easy to figure out and easy to manage, since there's no dealing with the complex interpersonal politics of an institution run by hundreds of blowhards.
c. Super easy to make friends with other associates, and staff. You're all in it together. Bonding happens quickly, and endures for a lifetime even if you leave.
Cons:
a. The owners might have toxic personalities, in which case you are effed.
b. If you don't show up for softball, you're going to get yelled at.
c. Someone is definitely banging someone else within the office and it will take you a long time to figure that out, if you ever even do. The impact on you whether you know it or not will be massive. If this relationship goes sour, all hell will break loose. (But on the pro side, it might be super entertaining too.)
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Anonymous User
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Re: Economic Edge on Smaller Firms and Boutiques
So what your saying is a smaller firm may have the edge on itself?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:57 pm
c. Someone is definitely banging someone else within the office and it will take you a long time to figure that out, if you ever even do. The impact on you whether you know it or not will be massive. If this relationship goes sour, all hell will break loose. (But on the pro side, it might be super entertaining too.)
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Anonymous User
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- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Economic Edge on Smaller Firms and Boutiques
Smaller firms with specialized practices tailored to BigLaw clients may well have an edge in that those clients will be unwilling to pay BigLaw rates during a recession.
But small firms generally—especially those without a niche practice—probably do worse than Big/Mid Law.
But small firms generally—especially those without a niche practice—probably do worse than Big/Mid Law.
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cam1992
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:40 am
Re: Economic Edge on Smaller Firms and Boutiques
Spent two years at a big law firm and recently moved to a very specialized boutique (12 attorneys, plan is to be 15 attorneys by 18 months). I cannot speak for all smaller firms, but the firm I am at is going to have several retirements in the coming years and the plan is to staff up no matter the economic climate. The managing partner wants to add more attorneys than the firm has had previously because we are really busy. The firm does have a somewhat recession proof niche.
Overall, I think that there are definitely pros and cons of moving from big law to a small firm.
Cons
(1) Official mentorship and “paths.” I’m the first new attorney this firm has hired in 7 years, so the other attorneys do not have a lot of experience in mentorship. There is also no incentive to provide mentorship or provide feedback (no matter how performative) like there was at my big law firm. There is also basically no structure for bonus payments or making partner or counsel. Being in an organization where the other members are not used to having new people around is all around really challenging.
(2) It sounds lame, but I prided myself on going to “name brand” schools and working at firm everyone knew. This may be more of a “me” problem, but I’ve struggled with what my peers think about me now that I’m at firm most have never heard of. I am embarrassed to admit this, but I have frequently followed up telling people that I left to go to a small firm with something like “the pay is the same as it was in big law.”
Pros
(1) work life balance is way better. The culture is set from the top and the managing partner is a really good guy. There seems to be a consensus among the partners that the firm works past business hours Monday-Thursday, but then most weekends are really light. Almost everyone has a family, and time with families seems to be really respected. Several senior counsels have remote work and part time work deals.
(2) the work is what you make of it. Based off of what I can tell, there are two partners who work significantly more than the other partners and therefore make a lot more money (seems to be a good bit more than what partners at my big firm were making, but I do not know if they have outside sources of income). The other partners all seem to be doing fine and they have a pretty good (for lawyers) work life balance. One even asked me to avoid emailing her on weekends unless it is a true emergency. As a young associate, I do not have the luxuries of avoiding weekend work, but it’s still nice to know that one day I can.
Overall, I think that there are definitely pros and cons of moving from big law to a small firm.
Cons
(1) Official mentorship and “paths.” I’m the first new attorney this firm has hired in 7 years, so the other attorneys do not have a lot of experience in mentorship. There is also no incentive to provide mentorship or provide feedback (no matter how performative) like there was at my big law firm. There is also basically no structure for bonus payments or making partner or counsel. Being in an organization where the other members are not used to having new people around is all around really challenging.
(2) It sounds lame, but I prided myself on going to “name brand” schools and working at firm everyone knew. This may be more of a “me” problem, but I’ve struggled with what my peers think about me now that I’m at firm most have never heard of. I am embarrassed to admit this, but I have frequently followed up telling people that I left to go to a small firm with something like “the pay is the same as it was in big law.”
Pros
(1) work life balance is way better. The culture is set from the top and the managing partner is a really good guy. There seems to be a consensus among the partners that the firm works past business hours Monday-Thursday, but then most weekends are really light. Almost everyone has a family, and time with families seems to be really respected. Several senior counsels have remote work and part time work deals.
(2) the work is what you make of it. Based off of what I can tell, there are two partners who work significantly more than the other partners and therefore make a lot more money (seems to be a good bit more than what partners at my big firm were making, but I do not know if they have outside sources of income). The other partners all seem to be doing fine and they have a pretty good (for lawyers) work life balance. One even asked me to avoid emailing her on weekends unless it is a true emergency. As a young associate, I do not have the luxuries of avoiding weekend work, but it’s still nice to know that one day I can.
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Anonymous User
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Re: Economic Edge on Smaller Firms and Boutiques
Good of you to be honest about this. It helps to have anon status.cam1992 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 6:47 pm(2) It sounds lame, but I prided myself on going to “name brand” schools and working at firm everyone knew. This may be more of a “me” problem, but I’ve struggled with what my peers think about me now that I’m at firm most have never heard of. I am embarrassed to admit this, but I have frequently followed up telling people that I left to go to a small firm with something like “the pay is the same as it was in big law.”
I felt this way working at my small firm too. And having disclosed that to you all, I cannot emphasize enough to you how fucking stupid it is to think this way. I'm an older lawyer now at DOJ. I cut my teeth through my small firm experience, learning how to actually become a trial and appellate lawyer (I actually do straddle both worlds, pretty comfortably). The sole basis for being embarrassed about this point is that as human beings we tend to be prestige whores who obsess over elitist labels. Especially when you're younger, you undervalue actual skills and valuable experience, and overvalue prestige. It's dumb. You'll grow out of it, hopefully. (Some people never do. I like demolishing them in courtrooms.)
