Deals / Cases From Hell Forum

[MiltonsOpus]

Going through a deal straight from Dante's 9th layer of hell right now, and you know what they say about misery. Would love to hear some collective war stories on some TLS deals / cases that couldn't end fast enough.

[Anonymous User]

Any cross-border, carve-out M&A transaction of any meaningful size ($250M+, and 6+ jurisdictions in which assets or equity interests are changing hands pursuant to local law) is going to be challenging if you are the senior / lead mid-level associate interacting with the client leadership team. There was a decent write up on all the complexity a while back.

[Anonymous User]

Corporate associate, took on a chapter 11 emergence to help get it across the finish line. 350+ hour month, but closed. Yay.

Company immediately fires their legal department, brings in new GC.

We (specifically, me) become their outsourced legal department. 8-Ks, Section 16 filings, annual proxy, reviewing quarterly/annual reports, board UWCs/resolutions, press releases... GC will just email me asking me to look at random shit on a Wednesday morning, we turn in next day.

Worst client. (a) This incredibly expensive for them (we're a V5), (b) it chews up a ton of my time, (c) we do not have a general public company department, so we don't have off-the-shelf resources for some of this shit. I'm a junior, do 80% M&A -- basically everything is new lmao

But obviously the partner isn't going to tell the GC of a public company who wants help "no," especially when he's new and we can build a relationship.

[Anonymous User]

Corporate associate, took on a chapter 11 emergence to help get it across the finish line. 350+ hour month, but closed. Yay.

Company immediately fires their legal department, brings in new GC.

We (specifically, me) become their outsourced legal department. 8-Ks, Section 16 filings, annual proxy, reviewing quarterly/annual reports, board UWCs/resolutions, press releases... GC will just email me asking me to look at random shit on a Wednesday morning, we turn in next day.

Worst client. (a) This incredibly expensive for them (we're a V5), (b) it chews up a ton of my time, (c) we do not have a general public company department, so we don't have off-the-shelf resources for some of this shit. I'm a junior, do 80% M&A -- basically everything is new lmao

But obviously the partner isn't going to tell the GC of a public company who wants help "no," especially when he's new and we can build a relationship.

I hate to be the dude to say this but this actually sounds like it ended up being a good deal for you and a great relationship to learn and keep on your side as you grow at the firm, no?

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Corporate associate, took on a chapter 11 emergence to help get it across the finish line. 350+ hour month, but closed. Yay.

Company immediately fires their legal department, brings in new GC.

We (specifically, me) become their outsourced legal department. 8-Ks, Section 16 filings, annual proxy, reviewing quarterly/annual reports, board UWCs/resolutions, press releases... GC will just email me asking me to look at random shit on a Wednesday morning, we turn in next day.

Worst client. (a) This incredibly expensive for them (we're a V5), (b) it chews up a ton of my time, (c) we do not have a general public company department, so we don't have off-the-shelf resources for some of this shit. I'm a junior, do 80% M&A -- basically everything is new lmao

But obviously the partner isn't going to tell the GC of a public company who wants help "no," especially when he's new and we can build a relationship.

I hate to be the dude to say this but this actually sounds like it ended up being a good deal for you and a great relationship to learn and keep on your side as you grow at the firm, no?

Classic TLS

"Tell me about your worst deal ever."
"I did low-level in-house work for a Biglaw salary and because I'm literally the only person who does the company's day-to-day legal work, I've developed a relationship with the GC."

[Anonymous User]

Corporate associate, took on a chapter 11 emergence to help get it across the finish line. 350+ hour month, but closed. Yay.

Company immediately fires their legal department, brings in new GC.

We (specifically, me) become their outsourced legal department. 8-Ks, Section 16 filings, annual proxy, reviewing quarterly/annual reports, board UWCs/resolutions, press releases... GC will just email me asking me to look at random shit on a Wednesday morning, we turn in next day.

Worst client. (a) This incredibly expensive for them (we're a V5), (b) it chews up a ton of my time, (c) we do not have a general public company department, so we don't have off-the-shelf resources for some of this shit. I'm a junior, do 80% M&A -- basically everything is new lmao

But obviously the partner isn't going to tell the GC of a public company who wants help "no," especially when he's new and we can build a relationship.

I hate to be the dude to say this but this actually sounds like it ended up being a good deal for you and a great relationship to learn and keep on your side as you grow at the firm, no?

sure, I think an ambitious midlevel/senior associate who can push some/all of the work onto a junior would love this situation. obviously the partner mostly does.

I don't, because I don't like having random Saturdays blown up to handle time-consuming, pretty ministerial stuff that we have no visibility into.

it's good for my *firm* that we're a go-to resource. is it good for *me* to be working until 2am fixing their D&O questionnaires? I feel fairly justified in resenting that

[Anonymous User]

Corporate associate, took on a chapter 11 emergence to help get it across the finish line. 350+ hour month, but closed. Yay.

Company immediately fires their legal department, brings in new GC.

We (specifically, me) become their outsourced legal department. 8-Ks, Section 16 filings, annual proxy, reviewing quarterly/annual reports, board UWCs/resolutions, press releases... GC will just email me asking me to look at random shit on a Wednesday morning, we turn in next day.

Worst client. (a) This incredibly expensive for them (we're a V5), (b) it chews up a ton of my time, (c) we do not have a general public company department, so we don't have off-the-shelf resources for some of this shit. I'm a junior, do 80% M&A -- basically everything is new lmao

But obviously the partner isn't going to tell the GC of a public company who wants help "no," especially when he's new and we can build a relationship.

I hate to be the dude to say this but this actually sounds like it ended up being a good deal for you and a great relationship to learn and keep on your side as you grow at the firm, no?

sure, I think an ambitious midlevel/senior associate who can push some/all of the work onto a junior would love this situation. obviously the partner mostly does.

I don't, because I don't like having random Saturdays blown up to handle time-consuming, pretty ministerial stuff that we have no visibility into.

it's good for my *firm* that we're a go-to resource. is it good for *me* to be working until 2am fixing their D&O questionnaires? I feel fairly justified in resenting that

By your own admission you've worked a 350+ hour month on your non-pubco work, so I don't see how any of this is different. Working till 2am is part of the job description regardless of which matter you're on.

[Anonymous User]

By your own admission you've worked a 350+ hour month on your non-pubco work, so I don't see how any of this is different. Working till 2am is part of the job description regardless of which matter you're on.

Because it's tedious and I would do it during normal working hours if if I were working for a client with a functional legal department that wasn't sending me everything last minute? And I have other matters that are also, unavoidably, time sensitive? So doing a D&O questionnaire at 2am means I'm doing closing work on other matters at 3am?

Fuck off with this tough guy shit lmao. The only posters worse than the performatively anti-work Ivy League law grads are the performatively anti-anti-work dipshits like yourself.

"Oh the client took a shit in your mouth? Just chew it, why do you think they pay you $220K?"

[BigLawPartner]

By your own admission you've worked a 350+ hour month on your non-pubco work, so I don't see how any of this is different. Working till 2am is part of the job description regardless of which matter you're on.

Because it's tedious and I would do it during normal working hours if if I were working for a client with a functional legal department that wasn't sending me everything last minute? And I have other matters that are also, unavoidably, time sensitive? So doing a D&O questionnaire at 2am means I'm doing closing work on other matters at 3am?

Fuck off with this tough guy shit lmao. The only posters worse than the performatively anti-work Ivy League law grads are the performatively anti-anti-work dipshits like yourself.

"Oh the client took a shit in your mouth? Just chew it, why do you think they pay you $220K?"

Sounds like you just don't like biglaw work because your situation is actually a pretty good setup at the moment and may position you for a nice transition in-house. It's a win for the firm for sure, and while I get the frustration of dealing with ministerial stuff, that's what you'd be doing as a junior anyway, but instead of dealing with some overworked midlevel associate who takes his frustrations out on you and passes all the crap work down, you're dealing directly with the GC of the client. I'd view that as a win for you, too.

[Anonymous User]

I'm guessing they are experiencing something similar to what I did, where they are doing the one client's work *on top of* their regularly staffed work, not instead of some of their regular work. It's a situation where the pie isn't just changing flavors, it's getting bigger

[Anonymous User]

To get this thread back on track, the poster above was spot on about deals with significant cross-border aspects, especially m&a or finance deals where you need local counsel in all the different jurisdictions. I had a deal once with like 11 different perfection opinions required. Working with 11 different local counsels and trying to coordinate all their different needs across multiple time zones was absolute hell. I barely slept for weeks. In my opinion any time you add in the requirement to involve local counsel in a country that’s not the US, UK, Canada, Cayman, or Lux, things are about to get really hairy. Sometimes the local counsels are good, sometimes they’re not, but even when they are good the language and time zone barrier can be steep, and there is always some local quirk to perfection or something that you need to figure out and stay on top of.

[Anonymous User]

By your own admission you've worked a 350+ hour month on your non-pubco work, so I don't see how any of this is different. Working till 2am is part of the job description regardless of which matter you're on.

Because it's tedious and I would do it during normal working hours if if I were working for a client with a functional legal department that wasn't sending me everything last minute? And I have other matters that are also, unavoidably, time sensitive? So doing a D&O questionnaire at 2am means I'm doing closing work on other matters at 3am?

Fuck off with this tough guy shit lmao. The only posters worse than the performatively anti-work Ivy League law grads are the performatively anti-anti-work dipshits like yourself.

"Oh the client took a shit in your mouth? Just chew it, why do you think they pay you $220K?"

Sounds like you just don't like biglaw work because your situation is actually a pretty good setup at the moment and may position you for a nice transition in-house. It's a win for the firm for sure, and while I get the frustration of dealing with ministerial stuff, that's what you'd be doing as a junior anyway, but instead of dealing with some overworked midlevel associate who takes his frustrations out on you and passes all the crap work down, you're dealing directly with the GC of the client. I'd view that as a win for you, too.

The OP mentioned a hellish matter but didn’t define it. Sometimes the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Late nights with no control or visibility with the dubious reward of a job with an incompetent GC is a type of hell.

[nls336]

By your own admission you've worked a 350+ hour month on your non-pubco work, so I don't see how any of this is different. Working till 2am is part of the job description regardless of which matter you're on.

Because it's tedious and I would do it during normal working hours if if I were working for a client with a functional legal department that wasn't sending me everything last minute? And I have other matters that are also, unavoidably, time sensitive? So doing a D&O questionnaire at 2am means I'm doing closing work on other matters at 3am?

Fuck off with this tough guy shit lmao. The only posters worse than the performatively anti-work Ivy League law grads are the performatively anti-anti-work dipshits like yourself.

"Oh the client took a shit in your mouth? Just chew it, why do you think they pay you $220K?"

LOL - needed that laugh today

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

By your own admission you've worked a 350+ hour month on your non-pubco work, so I don't see how any of this is different. Working till 2am is part of the job description regardless of which matter you're on.

Because it's tedious and I would do it during normal working hours if if I were working for a client with a functional legal department that wasn't sending me everything last minute? And I have other matters that are also, unavoidably, time sensitive? So doing a D&O questionnaire at 2am means I'm doing closing work on other matters at 3am?

Fuck off with this tough guy shit lmao. The only posters worse than the performatively anti-work Ivy League law grads are the performatively anti-anti-work dipshits like yourself.

"Oh the client took a shit in your mouth? Just chew it, why do you think they pay you $220K?"

It's not "tough guy shit" if someone says what sounds like day-to-day grunt work done with zero oversight between you and the GC is usually better than megacap M&A. It's simply trying to let others know that these types of arrangements *usually* offer more benefits to juniors than being at the bottom of the chain on something giant, and seeking these kinds of things out usually extends your career in a healthier way, not least because they tend to offer a quick path *out* of this job. I don't want you to eat shit for any longer than you feel you need to; the best thing for most associates' mental health would be to quit tomorrow and go scoop ice cream on a boardwalk somewhere. But for as long as you feel you need to do this, there are certain things that may offer a few benefits, even if they contain lots of the same drawbacks (like demanding clients and shitty schedules).

This is if (and I want to emphasize, it is a major IF) racking up these billables gets you out of deal work you'd otherwise be on (whether it's immediate or later in the year when people see you have lots of hours). It usually does (but definitely not always). I used to have tedious-but-no-oversight piecemeal grunt work for like 400 hours a year that probably saved me two deals a year. But if no one's taking anything off your plate in exchange (and you may need to ask), then yes, that would just be pointless shit-slurping.

[Anonymous User]

Corporate associate, took on a chapter 11 emergence to help get it across the finish line. 350+ hour month, but closed. Yay.

Company immediately fires their legal department, brings in new GC.

We (specifically, me) become their outsourced legal department. 8-Ks, Section 16 filings, annual proxy, reviewing quarterly/annual reports, board UWCs/resolutions, press releases... GC will just email me asking me to look at random shit on a Wednesday morning, we turn in next day.

Worst client. (a) This incredibly expensive for them (we're a V5), (b) it chews up a ton of my time, (c) we do not have a general public company department, so we don't have off-the-shelf resources for some of this shit. I'm a junior, do 80% M&A -- basically everything is new lmao

But obviously the partner isn't going to tell the GC of a public company who wants help "no," especially when he's new and we can build a relationship.

What V5 doesn't have a "public company department" (i.e., 8-Ks on hand)? Very strange.

[TigerIsBack]

By your own admission you've worked a 350+ hour month on your non-pubco work, so I don't see how any of this is different. Working till 2am is part of the job description regardless of which matter you're on.

Because it's tedious and I would do it during normal working hours if if I were working for a client with a functional legal department that wasn't sending me everything last minute? And I have other matters that are also, unavoidably, time sensitive? So doing a D&O questionnaire at 2am means I'm doing closing work on other matters at 3am?

Fuck off with this tough guy shit lmao. The only posters worse than the performatively anti-work Ivy League law grads are the performatively anti-anti-work dipshits like yourself.

"Oh the client took a shit in your mouth? Just chew it, why do you think they pay you $220K?"

It's not "tough guy shit" if someone says what sounds like day-to-day grunt work done with zero oversight between you and the GC is usually better than megacap M&A. It's simply trying to let others know that these types of arrangements *usually* offer more benefits to juniors than being at the bottom of the chain on something giant, and seeking these kinds of things out usually extends your career in a healthier way, not least because they tend to offer a quick path *out* of this job. I don't want you to eat shit for any longer than you feel you need to; the best thing for most associates' mental health would be to quit tomorrow and go scoop ice cream on a boardwalk somewhere. But for as long as you feel you need to do this, there are certain things that may offer a few benefits, even if they contain lots of the same drawbacks (like demanding clients and shitty schedules).

This is if (and I want to emphasize, it is a major IF) racking up these billables gets you out of deal work you'd otherwise be on (whether it's immediate or later in the year when people see you have lots of hours). It usually does (but definitely not always). I used to have tedious-but-no-oversight piecemeal grunt work for like 400 hours a year that probably saved me two deals a year. But if no one's taking anything off your plate in exchange (and you may need to ask), then yes, that would just be pointless shit-slurping.

I would also add that this sounds like a great setup IF you want to make partner. This is an opportunity where you're working directly with a pubco GC, and as your firm hopefully get more work from the company as you get more senior, you'll be the associate with the daily relationship and the one running its bigger matters down the road once you become a more senior associate. This makes you much more valuable to the firm than just a proficient senior associate who bills a lot of hours, because you are an important piece of maintaining the client relationship.

[Anonymous User]

By your own admission you've worked a 350+ hour month on your non-pubco work, so I don't see how any of this is different. Working till 2am is part of the job description regardless of which matter you're on.

Because it's tedious and I would do it during normal working hours if if I were working for a client with a functional legal department that wasn't sending me everything last minute? And I have other matters that are also, unavoidably, time sensitive? So doing a D&O questionnaire at 2am means I'm doing closing work on other matters at 3am?

Fuck off with this tough guy shit lmao. The only posters worse than the performatively anti-work Ivy League law grads are the performatively anti-anti-work dipshits like yourself.

"Oh the client took a shit in your mouth? Just chew it, why do you think they pay you $220K?"

People only get this angry when they know they are wrong.

[attorney589753]

Everyone is going to have their own version of work hell. Some people might hate working until 4AM for weeks in a row, other people might hate feeling abandoned (knowing they are producing low quality work without enough oversight), other people might hate lack of predictability ("I took on one matter out of the niceness of my heart and now it is 70% of my time for the foreseeable future"), and other people might be totally fine running through a wall for the right senior/partner/client.

[Anonymous User]

Everyone is going to have their own version of work hell. Some people might hate working until 4AM for weeks in a row, other people might hate feeling abandoned (knowing they are producing low quality work without enough oversight), other people might hate lack of predictability ("I took on one matter out of the niceness of my heart and now it is 70% of my time for the foreseeable future"), and other people might be totally fine running through a wall for the right senior/partner/client.

Sure, but I still don't think random pubco work counts as a "war story" as OP asked about. It might be annoying or even someone's worst matter, but it's not worth any of our time. The bankruptcy case leading up to it, however, does sound like it fits the bill.