Don't feel fit for this job Forum

[Anonymous User]

Junior corporate associate already on my second firm since I got fired from my first one. It was kind of a stealth but I was put on the chopping block as the weakest link. Was lucky to land on my feet at another good job in short order.

I just cannot stop making stupid little errors. I don't think I've ever really made a "major" mistake and I think I've been decent-to-good at the substantive stuff. But I'm always doing stupid little administrative/mechanical errors that end up wasting people's time, which is obviously super annoying to more senior attorneys. Version control issues, missing edits, typos, etc. Attention to detail stuff.

After getting canned from my last job, I'm really trying to get better at not screwing up the small stuff. But I, for the life of me, cannot stop. I just had a senior very sternly tell me that I was being sloppy and that it shouldn't have taken multiple turns to get a few documents correct. Told me to go back through everything carefully and send him something I could be proud of. I went through everything again extremely slowly and did catch a lot of stuff. But I still missed a few things.

I have ADHD, I've gone on meds in the past but they don't really help me with this stuff. I really think I need to leave the law. This requirement of being super anal and on top of your stuff like that is just not me, it was a mistake to ever think I could do this. I already failed at this job once, if I fail again I don't know what I'm going to do with myself. I can just feel it happening all over again. I'm not generally an anxious person but my heart rate is through the roof right now.

[Anonymous User]

Junior corporate associate already on my second firm since I got fired from my first one. It was kind of a stealth but I was put on the chopping block as the weakest link. Was lucky to land on my feet at another good job in short order.

I just cannot stop making stupid little errors. I don't think I've ever really made a "major" mistake and I think I've been decent-to-good at the substantive stuff. But I'm always doing stupid little administrative/mechanical errors that end up wasting people's time, which is obviously super annoying to more senior attorneys. Version control issues, missing edits, typos, etc. Attention to detail stuff.

After getting canned from my last job, I'm really trying to get better at not screwing up the small stuff. But I, for the life of me, cannot stop. I just had a senior very sternly tell me that I was being sloppy and that it shouldn't have taken multiple turns to get a few documents correct. Told me to go back through everything carefully and send him something I could be proud of. I went through everything again extremely slowly and did catch a lot of stuff. But I still missed a few things.

I have ADHD, I've gone on meds in the past but they don't really help me with this stuff. I really think I need to leave the law. This requirement of being super anal and on top of your stuff like that is just not me, it was a mistake to ever think I could do this. I already failed at this job once, if I fail again I don't know what I'm going to do with myself. I can just feel it happening all over again. I'm not generally an anxious person but my heart rate is through the roof right now.

To check for typos, formatting, etc., do two things:

(1) Zoom in to the document at like 250%, and read one word at a time. Read out loud. Focusing on a specific sentence will reveal sentence level problems.

(2) Then, print the document and read it away from a screen. No distractions. Read out loud. One word at a time.

[Sackboy]

The unpleasant answer is that you need spend more time doing things. All of this stuff can't be caught simply by spending more time. Read through sections of documents (if long) or the entire document (if short) out loud. Do the same with emails. Double and triple check things before pushing send. Etc. You can also use tools that your firm no doubt has to check for defined terms that aren't used again (and therefore don't need to be defined), terms that are typically defined (and maybe you forgot to define), etc.

[basketofbread]

It’s fixable. As others have already said you need to spend more time on it.

I don’t have ADHD but I had to completely learn organizational skills from scratch when I started doing legal work.

You need to systematize it. Make a check list, check EVERYTHING: version, dates, go back to emails and check instructions etc.

There’s really no trick to it. Some people might naturally be better than others, but people make mistakes constantly in this job, large and small, whether junior, senior, partner, whatever. The problem is not making mistakes per se, the problem is acquiring a reputation for someone who does not do adequate due diligence to catch mistakes.

[Anonymous User]

make an exhaustive checklist for every doc

add to it every time you miss something

[Anonymous User]

Not in corporate but I have the same issue. Two random tips:

1) Do the initial work slower. My default mode is to rush, and I make more mistakes when I let that tendency take over. I tell my self to savor each task (I know that sounds dumb), but it helps me think more deeply and take my time with things.

2) Double check every wrote task you do. When porting edits, you should double check/redline everything to make sure you caught it all. I look stupid doing it, but I will physically move from side to side when comparing edits in two docs to make sure I focus on each individually.

[Anonymous User]

I think the problem is for these sorts of errors they are obvious. Each time a senior opens your work you don’t change 2021 to 2022 they will roll their eyes and review everything closer than they otherwise would. Unless your super busy, it’s a bad look. I recommend being enthusiastic and friendly to get over the errors. If people like you they won’t give you a shitty review for some misplaced commas.

[Anonymous User]

You might be better suited for being in open court more often, like criminal law folks on the DA or public defender side. You know, what real lawyers do.

I'm being serious. If you've got problems dealing with OCD document-perfection skills, you sound like a prosecutor who would rather be duking it out in court and cross-examining bad guys, than making sure there's a semicolon in the right spot.

[Excelsior11]

Hey man - I spent 5 years in corporate big law at 4 different firms, and kept thinking that every new firm would be a little better of a fit, a little different culture, etc., but I finally listened to my heart and accepted a position as a public defender. I start next week and while I'm excited and nervous about my lack of skills in the area, I am mostly just happy that I will get courtroom experience as a real lawyer, and won't be staring at corporate documents for the next 30 years, sitting behind a computer for 12 hours a day. It is not too late to switch your career! Feel free to DM me.

[ClubberLang]

Do you have a secretary you can use for this kind of thing? I have issues with this kind of thing too and don't send out anything important until someone else proofreads it. If you like the substantive work, typos and minor things like that should not be what does you in.

[DougEvans789]

Just wanted to say that you seem super self-aware and like a good dude. Maybe corporate law is for you; maybe it’s not. If it’s not, don’t let it get to you; there are more important skills in life than neurotic-lawyer-level attention to detail.

[Anonymous User]

I see a lot of good advice on this thread to which I am hopefully just adding one more piece:

For the sake of your resume, remember that you really only need to aim for 3 years of survival at any one particular law firm. You can get away with 2 maybe, but not if you already have a one-year stint at another firm as it seems you might. I strongly advocate that, with one employer who has already stealth fired you in the past, you want the next employer to be on your CV for at least 3 years.

I promise you that 3 years is not that long. Don't think about it. Just come up with a plan to survive until the 2.5 year mark, such as the strategies suggested above. After 2.5 years you will be earnestly shopping your resume around and interviewing, and by the time you've given notice and switched, it's 3 years. The goal is to be able to safely say "3 years" on your CV once you leave.

Future moves? Again, you've gotten good suggestions. You might be a better fit for open court where real lawyers work rather than this corporate thing. Biglaw careers only have a typical lifespan of 4 years anyway, so plan ahead for the pay cut. But prepare for a boost in self esteem and a boost in the financial valuation of your long-term career since you will become a better courtroom lawyer. I happen to know many biglaw refugees who became public defenders. You folks could probably start a club if you weren't so busy learning how to actually cross-examine witnesses. Since you have biglaw (or whatever) credentials from the early start of your career, you could also set your sights on a federal career at DOJ, or maybe at a state AG office. You're young, I assume, so you've got billions of good options. Don't stay miserable.

[Anonymous User]

I see a lot of good advice on this thread to which I am hopefully just adding one more piece:

For the sake of your resume, remember that you really only need to aim for 3 years of survival at any one particular law firm. You can get away with 2 maybe, but not if you already have a one-year stint at another firm as it seems you might. I strongly advocate that, with one employer who has already stealth fired you in the past, you want the next employer to be on your CV for at least 3 years.

I promise you that 3 years is not that long. Don't think about it. Just come up with a plan to survive until the 2.5 year mark, such as the strategies suggested above. After 2.5 years you will be earnestly shopping your resume around and interviewing, and by the time you've given notice and switched, it's 3 years. The goal is to be able to safely say "3 years" on your CV once you leave.

Future moves? Again, you've gotten good suggestions. You might be a better fit for open court where real lawyers work rather than this corporate thing. Biglaw careers only have a typical lifespan of 4 years anyway, so plan ahead for the pay cut. But prepare for a boost in self esteem and a boost in the financial valuation of your long-term career since you will become a better courtroom lawyer. I happen to know many biglaw refugees who became public defenders. You folks could probably start a club if you weren't so busy learning how to actually cross-examine witnesses. Since you have biglaw (or whatever) credentials from the early start of your career, you could also set your sights on a federal career at DOJ, or maybe at a state AG office. You're young, I assume, so you've got billions of good options. Don't stay miserable.

Is the biglaw-to-public-defender or DOJ trajectory really only for litigators in biglaw? Are transactional people SOL?

[Anonymous User]

I see a lot of good advice on this thread to which I am hopefully just adding one more piece:

For the sake of your resume, remember that you really only need to aim for 3 years of survival at any one particular law firm. You can get away with 2 maybe, but not if you already have a one-year stint at another firm as it seems you might. I strongly advocate that, with one employer who has already stealth fired you in the past, you want the next employer to be on your CV for at least 3 years.

I promise you that 3 years is not that long. Don't think about it. Just come up with a plan to survive until the 2.5 year mark, such as the strategies suggested above. After 2.5 years you will be earnestly shopping your resume around and interviewing, and by the time you've given notice and switched, it's 3 years. The goal is to be able to safely say "3 years" on your CV once you leave.

Future moves? Again, you've gotten good suggestions. You might be a better fit for open court where real lawyers work rather than this corporate thing. Biglaw careers only have a typical lifespan of 4 years anyway, so plan ahead for the pay cut. But prepare for a boost in self esteem and a boost in the financial valuation of your long-term career since you will become a better courtroom lawyer. I happen to know many biglaw refugees who became public defenders. You folks could probably start a club if you weren't so busy learning how to actually cross-examine witnesses. Since you have biglaw (or whatever) credentials from the early start of your career, you could also set your sights on a federal career at DOJ, or maybe at a state AG office. You're young, I assume, so you've got billions of good options. Don't stay miserable.

Is the biglaw-to-public-defender or DOJ trajectory really only for litigators in biglaw? Are transactional people SOL?

Hell no.

Criminal practitioners need one core thing when they first make the switch: brains. If you can take the pay cut and aren't terrified of the idea of being in open court, you will find a public defender job out there. If you think you are terrified of the idea of being in open court, by the way, let me also address that: I know lots of shy introverts who thought so too. Doing it is very different than the concept of it however you imagine it. There is lots of mentorship along the way. Being in live court is pretty awesome. Give it a shot, if you're so inclined.

[Lacepiece23]

I was bad at this stuff in my first two years. Then, it kind of clicked. And I stopped making those types of errors after being told off so much.

I'm not in biglaw anymore, but I have my own firm and my own associate. I can literally anticipate the stupid errors she's going to make. They are all the same ones I made. She's better at attention to detail than I was, but it's still the same things.

I think you kind of just grow out of it after making the same mistakes so often.

[gregfootball2001]

Along with the checklist advice, when you go through the document, don't try and find everything all at once. Go through it and check all the defined terms. Then go through and just check the section references. Then check whatever is next. Concentrating on one issue may help you focus.

[Big Red]

You're getting pretty good advice here, but honestly this is normal and there is a point where it all just kind of "clicks". Which you won't notice at the time, because you're no longer making the mistakes. Printing is a really good idea, but you are also getting caught up in a shame/mistake spiral where you are so worried about missing something that your brain is moving too fast for your eyes. Another harder, but also really good idea, is to try and take a medium break to take a last look at things.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks for all the encouragement and advice, everyone. Turns out the partner is kind of a jerk, saw him rip on a midlevel for the same kinds of mistakes using the same verbiage.

Still don't think law is for me. I'm riding out my time at this firm for another 1.5 years or so and then I'm probably going to transition to something else.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks for all the encouragement and advice, everyone. Turns out the partner is kind of a jerk, saw him rip on a midlevel for the same kinds of mistakes using the same verbiage.

Still don't think law is for me. I'm riding out my time at this firm for another 1.5 years or so and then I'm probably going to transition to something else.

Pro tip from an experienced lawyer: if you ever get "ripped" by an older lawyer, there is a 99.8% chance that many, many, many other lawyers have also been screamed at, yelled at, verbally abused, and/or maybe even had objects thrown at them by that lawyer. It is never just you.

I have seen this over and over again, from young lawyers who fall into various states of depression because they believe that they are shitty lawyers or something is wrong with them. Almost always, that's not true. It's more the case that the legal profession is saturated with incompetent managers of people who tend to have personality disorders.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks for all the encouragement and advice, everyone. Turns out the partner is kind of a jerk, saw him rip on a midlevel for the same kinds of mistakes using the same verbiage.

Still don't think law is for me. I'm riding out my time at this firm for another 1.5 years or so and then I'm probably going to transition to something else.

Pro tip from an experienced lawyer: if you ever get "ripped" by an older lawyer, there is a 99.8% chance that many, many, many other lawyers have also been screamed at, yelled at, verbally abused, and/or maybe even had objects thrown at them by that lawyer. It is never just you.

I have seen this over and over again, from young lawyers who fall into various states of depression because they believe that they are shitty lawyers or something is wrong with them. Almost always, that's not true. It's more the case that the legal profession is saturated with incompetent managers of people who tend to have personality disorders.

OP again. I totally agree and normally don't let these things shake me. But since I got laid off from my last firm job I've been super anxious about making mistakes. It's a new emotion for me.

[Anonymous User]

Junior corporate associate already on my second firm since I got fired from my first one. It was kind of a stealth but I was put on the chopping block as the weakest link. Was lucky to land on my feet at another good job in short order.

I just cannot stop making stupid little errors. I don't think I've ever really made a "major" mistake and I think I've been decent-to-good at the substantive stuff. But I'm always doing stupid little administrative/mechanical errors that end up wasting people's time, which is obviously super annoying to more senior attorneys. Version control issues, missing edits, typos, etc. Attention to detail stuff.

After getting canned from my last job, I'm really trying to get better at not screwing up the small stuff. But I, for the life of me, cannot stop. I just had a senior very sternly tell me that I was being sloppy and that it shouldn't have taken multiple turns to get a few documents correct. Told me to go back through everything carefully and send him something I could be proud of. I went through everything again extremely slowly and did catch a lot of stuff. But I still missed a few things.

I have ADHD, I've gone on meds in the past but they don't really help me with this stuff. I really think I need to leave the law. This requirement of being super anal and on top of your stuff like that is just not me, it was a mistake to ever think I could do this. I already failed at this job once, if I fail again I don't know what I'm going to do with myself. I can just feel it happening all over again. I'm not generally an anxious person but my heart rate is through the roof right now.

To check for typos, formatting, etc., do two things:

(1) Zoom in to the document at like 250%, and read one word at a time. Read out loud. Focusing on a specific sentence will reveal sentence level problems.

(2) Then, print the document and read it away from a screen. No distractions. Read out loud. One word at a time.

I am also an attorney with ADHD and I too struggle with stupid typos. ("form" instead of "from" is one of the worst for me). I do death penalty postconviction work, which means our briefing is extensive. I also struggled with typos while clerking in USDC.

First off, I wanted to say that doing this work with ADHD is hard. I am sorry you're struggling with that. Others are certainly going to dismiss your experience as trivial and that too can be discouraging. This is one of the many reasons people with ADHD also suffer from depression and anxiety. We internalize criticism from others who don't fully understand, like we are lazy, simply need to work harder, or we lack discipline. The reality is that our brains are incapable of functioning in certain environments. Although the responsibility is mostly on us to recognize and adjust our behaviors, that doesn't make the experience any less difficult.

I want to echo their advice about the read aloud function. For me, I have to print out my work and follow along as it is read aloud. This is how I catch many of the ADHD typos. Also, I find it is best to never turn in a draft at the end of a day, if it can be avoided. Once you have a draft where you think it is ready to submit, put it aside and pick it up first thing the next morning for edits. Our brains get so hyper focused when finishing a task, we overlook errors that may seem obvious to others. This is how I try and catch those errors.

Finally, because you are struggling with the idea that you're not right for the job, I want to say that this could be a product of a bad boss generally. But the feelings of incompetency are compounded for us ADHD lawyers. ADHD impacts our dopamine levels more than anything, which is why we become impulsive at times we need a dopamine hit. If you're not getting support from a supervisor on the things you do well, or your feedback is not constructive or overly critical, you're gonna start developing a serious lack of dopamine while at work. That sounds stupid, but I can 100% attest to its truth.

So, finding ways to reward yourself for the work you complete is crucial. Ultimately, I chose to leave my prior workplace prematurely because of this dynamic. I am now doing work that I believe in and enjoy, and it is much easier to focus in that environment. So I would also say don't be afraid to look for other opportunities that are a better fit for your brain. When an ADHD person finds their passion and has a good working environment, all of the ADHD negatives start to fade away and the positive aspects of our condition, such as an ability to hyper focus and think creatively, really start to work to our benefit.

Best of luck to you! And know you're not alone in what you are going through. Keep reaching out to others, and I bet you find a good community of ADHD lawyers around you.