How to Slum RTO Forum

[Anonymous User]

Die hard WFHer here. Looking to minimize hours in the office without endangering my job/partnership aspirations. Anon for obvious reasons.

Soon to be 5th year at a BL firm in a secondary market. My firm has an official three-days-in RTO policy put in place in January 2022. But the policy refers to "maintaining a presence" in the office three days a week. It does not say anything further about what that means.

My question is:

For those of you who have insight into the minds of partners who give a shit about associates coming in, what is the bare minimum I should strive for to avoid standing out? For the last year I have been coming in 2 days a week and staying 3ish hours each time. I cynically try to walk past partners offices/keep my door open to maximize visibility when I am in. I also attend all scheduled in-person meetings, including our monthly-ish associate meetings.

My impression is that partners are all over the board when it comes to RTO. Some partners clearly do not give a shit. Others I have overheard conversations in the office about "When will this WFH nonsense end? Everyone should be in every day." FWIW, I'm pretty sure the 3-day policy is here to stay. We went back to 5 days in the office for 4-5 months in 2021, and people hated it, leading to the current policy.

To the extent it matters, I am in lit billing around 2100/year. And my goal is to make partner.

So far, so good. Haven't had anyone comment about my office presence, including during yearly review. But since Kirkland did some layoffs this week, seems like we could be heading into more dangerous waters. Do you think my practice of coming in 2 days/week 3 hours at a time could put me on the chopping block?

Any other tips to slum RTO? Fortunately, I live VERY CLOSE to the office. As in ~5 mins desk-to-desk.

[Anonymous User]

Keep doing what you’re doing. In my office, that would be a perfect strategy.

Also, don’t let the Kirkland layoffs worry you. They happened over a month ago, to 20-25 associates firm-wide (less than 1% of ~3000), and all the evidence points to it being about low hours or poor performance. Certainly not from failing to come into the office enough.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

If there are people thumbing their nose at the policy completely by never coming in, then you won’t be their primary target.

But I’d bet some people have noticed you only come in for 3 hours at a time. You’ve established that pattern for a year now

[trebekismyhero]

If there are people thumbing their nose at the policy completely by never coming in, then you won’t be their primary target.

But I’d bet some people have noticed you only come in for 3 hours at a time. You’ve established that pattern for a year now

Yeah, it probably depends how big your office is, but 3 hours seems a little light if you don't want to be noticed. I think what you are doing generally is the right strategy, but you probably need to stay over half the day on the days you come in. I would do like 10-4 or something like that.

[Anonymous User]

2100+ there’s no way you get fired, but I think you should just do 10-5 ish the days the firm laid out if your goal is partner. Feels like an unnecessary risk you rub someone influential the wrong way otherwise, esp since you live 5 min away

[Anonymous User]

And my goal is to make partner.

I live VERY CLOSE to the office. As in ~5 mins desk-to-desk.

Then come in Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and be in from 10am - 5pm. Also, make sure to show up to any major events that are happening in your group (e.g., Monthly Litigation Happy Hour; Welcome the New Litigation Associates). You want to make partner and you have a 10 minute round-trip commute. Come on.

[Anonymous User]

Die hard WFHer here. Looking to minimize hours in the office without endangering my job/partnership aspirations. Anon for obvious reasons.

Soon to be 5th year at a BL firm in a secondary market. My firm has an official three-days-in RTO policy put in place in January 2022. But the policy refers to "maintaining a presence" in the office three days a week. It does not say anything further about what that means.

My question is:

For those of you who have insight into the minds of partners who give a shit about associates coming in, what is the bare minimum I should strive for to avoid standing out? For the last year I have been coming in 2 days a week and staying 3ish hours each time. I cynically try to walk past partners offices/keep my door open to maximize visibility when I am in.

I also attend all scheduled in-person meetings, including our monthly-ish associate meetings.

My impression is that partners are all over the board when it comes to RTO. Some partners clearly do not give a shit. Others I have overheard conversations in the office about "When will this WFH nonsense end? Everyone should be in every day." FWIW, I'm pretty sure the 3-day policy is here to stay. We went back to 5 days in the office for 4-5 months in 2021, and people hated it, leading to the current policy.

To the extent it matters, I am in lit billing around 2100/year. And my goal is to make partner.

So far, so good. Haven't had anyone comment about my office presence, including during yearly review. But since Kirkland did some layoffs this week, seems like we could be heading into more dangerous waters. Do you think my practice of coming in 2 days/week 3 hours at a time could put me on the chopping block?

Any other tips to slum RTO? Fortunately, I live VERY CLOSE to the office. As in ~5 mins desk-to-desk.

the point of going in isn't to just sit in your desk and work and have people see you sitting at your desk. it's to have face-to-face interactions with with them -- might arise formally via a meeting, informally in the hallway or cafeteria, etc

there's really not much value in going in for 2 days a week for 3 hours w/no plan other than to work at your desk, keep the door open, and hope people notice your...presence. if you want to do it that way you should actually schedule stuff -- meetings, coffee, whatever -- to get value out of it.

(given you're a 5th year and expressed interest in being partner I find it a little odd that you haven't picked up on the above dynamic + dimension to office politics, but no shade)

my advice though - given your commute is literally 5 min, if you want to make partner, come in Mon-Thurs from 10:30 - 5:30. that is a pretty immaterial sacrifice. mine is 25-30, in 4 days a week.

[anon3030]

I think you’re doing it right. I do roughly the same but more like 4 hours— 9:30 to 1:30 and go home for lunch and stay. I also attend every in-person event.

During the 2 days I go in, I pop into every partner’s office I work with (half normally aren’t there on a given day) each day I’m there and relatively force them to go over each matter I’m working with them on to make a game plan for the next few days. I also swing by the office managing partners office and say hi.

Ignore the 10-5 people that say RTO meetings need to be organic or whatever. And just because you live close doesn’t mean you should go in more. To me, that just means you can go in less and pop in real quick if a partner asks if you’re in the office to meet.

I bill good hours and received a good review. We recently laid someone off in my group who came in everyday from like 10-6 but wasn’t good at work.

[crazywafflez]

I'd take a middling approach myself- probs would do Tuesday-Thursday and do a 10-3 type deal. I also think doing the 9-1:30 thing and just staying home from lunch onwards would generally work.

[RedNewJersey]

I agree with the "do meetings and events" advice. I'd also say that having your door open is poor strategy. It makes it very obvious when you're there ... but also when you're not. Since you're only there so few hours, you'd benefit from a little ambiguity. I'd recommend that on days when people will see you in some other way (say, an event or meetings), you close your door. Occasionally coming in on other days at random times (you could shift your day, for example), would also help. The idea is that if you come in like clockwork at the same times and are obviously there, then it's equally obvious you're not there the rest of the time. If you sometimes *are* there other times, they'll know it's more, but not how much more, and might give you the benefit of the doubt.