Stealth fired, what to do next? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anon and limited facts for obvious reasons. Basically, I was recently fired from my big law job for a bs administrative, nonperformance related reason--I had great substantive reviews. I technically "resigned" but it feels like the firm was looking for a reason to cut personnel because the administrative reason is so absurd.

I lateralled from a lit boutique into this big law job and was at the firm for less than a year. I am back on the job search and want to stay in big law for a few more years and don't want to go back to my old firm. Assuming other big law shops will still interview me, how would you explain the resignation from the firm?

FWIW, the administrative reason requires a long backstory and involves a partner stabbing me in the back to cover their mistake, so I figure it's obviously not ideal to get into that explanation in an interview.

[DukeMountain]

I know you don’t want to move back, but seems like a good time to do something you might not like for a bit

[Anonymous User]

Absolutely do not get into the weeds of why you left. Most law firms have enough common sense to know that, if things didn't end pleasantly, you won't want to talk about it. If there was some mutual agreement to part ways, as you describe, well, nuff said about that.

The tough part of this is that you don't want to blatantly lie. But that's where the art of using neutral language comes in. "It just wasn't a good fit." Or something like that.

[objctnyrhnr]

As lawyers, we have a duty of candor to the court. We are concerned Re our rep as to transparency with the bar and our peers. Generally speaking, we need to speak the truth. Before I get into my answer, I want to emphasize that I (v40 senior lit) personally take this extremely seriously. My reputation is far more valuable than whatever the upside may be for crossing the line for a single client, or even tiptoeing up to it for that matter.

With all of that being said, one exception to the duty of candor I described above, in my view, are statements made in interviews…provided that the untruth is not objectively inconsistent with verifiable facts.

Here, the only verifiable fact is that you resigned. Nobody is going to tell any of your interviewers or potential future bosses any details; my suspicion is that this is part of the deal you had with the firm.

If all my assumptions are correct, TCR is this: Literally just make it sound like your decision and come up with a story about the reasons that you might not have wanted to be there anymore, without maligning anybody specific. Examples might include types of cases you were getting, types of tasks on those cases, work volume, concerns about partnership prospects (this is a great one), concerns about the group, case variety, a lack of specialization potential, a lack of mentorship. Bonus points if you can make it seem like you’re a huge type-A go-getter (eg that you’re super concerned Re partnership prospects) in the process.

There are SO many valid reasons that one might resign from a law firm. The beauty of the above possibilities are that nobody can really refute your subjective rationale.

I suppose the only thing that might raise eyebrows is that usually people don’t just resign if they are, for example, looking to lateral to increase partnership prospects. In those situations, obviously, lateraling from an existing position is probably much more common.

As the interviewer, I’ve actually heard a somewhat passable excuse for a resignation for this reason, though. The interviewee said they want to focus full time on their job search to ensure that they land the right fit in their next move, the right fit being somewhere they could see themselves staying for a long time. (Now, I half-smelled BS, but I can’t say with any certainty that this was untrue, and I respected the strength/confidence of the answer regardless.)

[Anonymous User]

As lawyers, we have a duty of candor to the court. We are concerned Re our rep as to transparency with the bar and our peers. Generally speaking, we need to speak the truth. Before I get into my answer, I want to emphasize that I (v40 senior lit) personally take this extremely seriously. My reputation is far more valuable than whatever the upside may be for crossing the line for a single client, or even tiptoeing up to it for that matter.

With all of that being said, one exception to the duty of candor I described above, in my view, are statements made in interviews…provided that the untruth is not objectively inconsistent with verifiable facts.

Here, the only verifiable fact is that you resigned. Nobody is going to tell any of your interviewers or potential future bosses any details; my suspicion is that this is part of the deal you had with the firm.

If all my assumptions are correct, TCR is this: Literally just make it sound like your decision and come up with a story about the reasons that you might not have wanted to be there anymore, without maligning anybody specific. Examples might include types of cases you were getting, types of tasks on those cases, work volume, concerns about partnership prospects (this is a great one), concerns about the group, case variety, a lack of specialization potential, a lack of mentorship. Bonus points if you can make it seem like you’re a huge type-A go-getter (eg that you’re super concerned Re partnership prospects) in the process.

There are SO many valid reasons that one might resign from a law firm. The beauty of the above possibilities are that nobody can really refute your subjective rationale.

I suppose the only thing that might raise eyebrows is that usually people don’t just resign if they are, for example, looking to lateral to increase partnership prospects. In those situations, obviously, lateraling from an existing position is probably much more common.

As the interviewer, I’ve actually heard a somewhat passable excuse for a resignation for this reason, though. The interviewee said they want to focus full time on their job search to ensure that they land the right fit in their next move, the right fit being somewhere they could see themselves staying for a long time. (Now, I half-smelled BS, but I can’t say with any certainty that this was untrue, and I respected the strength/confidence of the answer regardless.)

Senior govt lawyer former biglaw here. This is a very good answer, to which I only add this thought: If you have worked on a good, not-dishonest, confident answer, most interviewers will feel uncomfortable trying to pry or interrogate you to dig in deeper. They can usually tell that the reason for leaving is something complicated and maybe not so positive, so your answer is what it is, and let's move on. So yes, find something neutral, avoid being a liar, and just stick to that point.

This doesn't apply to certain government jobs in law enforcement, where you shouldn't be shocked to know that niceties are out the window, and at the federal level you're filling out a national security clearance form that 100% ferrets all of the facts out. But also, being in effect fired from a biglaw firm means you're probably a normal human being, so that truth won't really hurt you.

[Anonymous User]

Are you still on the website, and will the firm confirm you still work there if asked? I know someone who was fired for a legit reason (not administrative and not just the usual associate performance issues) and the firm still kept them on the website until they landed their next job. Most of the time that's all another firm wants to see is that you're still employed.

Other than that, as an interviewer I want to hear WHY you want to work with me. I would expect someone to have a passable response on what's going on at their current firm or why they left their previous job, but even if I think they're unemployed because they were fired there's no way for me to know that unless they goof up and tell me. "I took some time off to travel and visit family after COVID kept us apart for a couple of years" would be perfectly acceptable to me, or something acknowledging that the past 2 and half years have been stressful so you took time off to think through your next steps and when you saw the job opening at [my firm] you were very excited because you love _____ and want to work with people like ______. With some groups out there doing stealth layoffs due to economic issues no one is going to be able to tell if you were fired for this administrative issue or if you wanted to take time off or if you were pushed out for economic reasons. Lawyers doing interviews love to talk about themselves (well, at least I do), so give your short and convincing answer on why you left and what excites you about the new job and then ask that lawyer some questions about themselves, and they may not even remember what you said by the end of the interview.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, I think that having left your job can be a little bit of a red flag, but if you can confidently offer a plausible reason (and pivot to all the reasons why you want to work at *this* firm), I think part of what interviewers are looking for is whether you’re savvy and sensible enough to be able to come up with a good way to answer the question, even if it isn’t the complete truth. I think most reasonable people understand that not every job works out; part of the problem is if, when asked about it, you sink yourself by not being able to spin it in a positive fashion.

(That may not assuage all concerns but will assuage some of them, at least.)

[Anonymous User]

Thanks all, this has been helpful.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

I would appreciate any recommendations on how to pitch myself in cover letters while applying for new jobs. Usually when you're employed, you describe yourself as an associate at ABC firm, etc. But being unemployed, I am not sure how to describe my current position in cover letters.

I have not had any bites on applications since leaving my firm and am getting concerned. Thanks everyone.

[Anonymous User]

Very sorry to hear this, OP. How much severance did they give you / how much runway do you have?

Wishing you best of luck.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

I would appreciate any recommendations on how to pitch myself in cover letters while applying for new jobs. Usually when you're employed, you describe yourself as an associate at ABC firm, etc. But being unemployed, I am not sure how to describe my current position in cover letters.

I have not had any bites on applications since leaving my firm and am getting concerned. Thanks everyone.

I just wouldn't. Focus on the positive - why do you want this role and what makes you a great candidate?

[Anonymous User]

Have you talked to a recruiter? This all sounds like stuff a recruiter could help with.