(Ideal) Pathway to a Litigation Boutique? Forum

[Anonymous User]

The goal is a job at a lit boutique (Susman, Kellog, etc.) How do I get there in a "perfect" world scenario?
Do you summer at one of these after 1L and then get a callback offer? Then from there are you focused on applying to judicial clerkships? And once that's complete you return to the firm you summered at?
Or is it a little more complicated then that? Any insight would help!

[Anonymous User]

Get excellent grades, clerk (ideally at the CoA level), network, and apply.

[Anonymous User]

Summer at the boutique of your choosing and make major substantive contributions. Graduate at or near the top of your class. Do law review, ideally on eboard. Win your school's moot court competition or a national moot court competition. Clerk for a D.Ct, COA, and SCOTUS. Then apply.

Does anyone have everything I mentioned? Of course not. However, successful applicants often have one or more. The more of these boxes you check, the better.

[Anonymous User]

Lots of boutiques are hard to summer at or don't have summer programs. Lots hire from clerkships. Either try to land a summer gig or clerk and apply. That's about all you can do other than have great grades, etc., which is generally a prerequsite for the other two things I mentioned.

[Anonymous User]

Lots of boutiques are hard to summer at or don't have summer programs. Lots hire from clerkships. Either try to land a summer gig or clerk and apply. That's about all you can do other than have great grades, etc., which is generally a prerequsite for the other two things I mentioned.

Any idea what the chances are like for someone who managed to snag a COA clerkship without great grades?

[Anonymous User]

Lots of boutiques are hard to summer at or don't have summer programs. Lots hire from clerkships. Either try to land a summer gig or clerk and apply. That's about all you can do other than have great grades, etc., which is generally a prerequsite for the other two things I mentioned.

Any idea what the chances are like for someone who managed to snag a COA clerkship without great grades?

Depends which boutique. Susman/Kellogg/Keker/etc. are extremely selective and probably won't flex on grades. Others won't care, as long as you have other things going for you.

[Anonymous User]

Lots of boutiques are hard to summer at or don't have summer programs. Lots hire from clerkships. Either try to land a summer gig or clerk and apply. That's about all you can do other than have great grades, etc., which is generally a prerequsite for the other two things I mentioned.

Any idea what the chances are like for someone who managed to snag a COA clerkship without great grades?

Not to be rude, but I assume you are Fed Soc, which is usually the case if someone gets COA with good but not great grades. In that case, I'd go with a boutique that is known as right-leaning, and you'll probably have little problem if your grades are good and your bona fides are there.

[Anonymous User]

Lots of boutiques are hard to summer at or don't have summer programs. Lots hire from clerkships. Either try to land a summer gig or clerk and apply. That's about all you can do other than have great grades, etc., which is generally a prerequsite for the other two things I mentioned.

Any idea what the chances are like for someone who managed to snag a COA clerkship without great grades?

Not to be rude, but I assume you are Fed Soc, which is usually the case if someone gets COA with good but not great grades. In that case, I'd go with a boutique that is known as right-leaning, and you'll probably have little problem if your grades are good and your bona fides are there.

Totally false. Plenty of people get COA clerkships with good-but-not-great grades due to race/gender/ethnicity affirmative action-type preferences at both the school level and among liberal judges. The schools heavily promote/invest/recommend them, and the judges look out for it. This is NOT a political thing where only right-of-center folks get a bump of some kind beyond grades/merit.

Don't need to get into another affirmative action debate, but the facts are that both sides profit from this kind of thing so you can't make inferences one way or the other.

[Anonymous User]

Lots of boutiques are hard to summer at or don't have summer programs. Lots hire from clerkships. Either try to land a summer gig or clerk and apply. That's about all you can do other than have great grades, etc., which is generally a prerequsite for the other two things I mentioned.

Any idea what the chances are like for someone who managed to snag a COA clerkship without great grades?

Depends which boutique. Susman/Kellogg/Keker/etc. are extremely selective and probably won't flex on grades. Others won't care, as long as you have other things going for you.

Feel like this is kinda overstating the substantive threshold for applications to these firms.

3 roughly median people at my school all of whom lack COA clerkships (one has a D.Ct.) were just hired to one of these firms lol

[Anonymous User]

Lots of boutiques are hard to summer at or don't have summer programs. Lots hire from clerkships. Either try to land a summer gig or clerk and apply. That's about all you can do other than have great grades, etc., which is generally a prerequsite for the other two things I mentioned.

Any idea what the chances are like for someone who managed to snag a COA clerkship without great grades?

Not to be rude, but I assume you are Fed Soc, which is usually the case if someone gets COA with good but not great grades. In that case, I'd go with a boutique that is known as right-leaning, and you'll probably have little problem if your grades are good and your bona fides are there.

Totally false. Plenty of people get COA clerkships with good-but-not-great grades due to race/gender/ethnicity affirmative action-type preferences at both the school level and among liberal judges. The schools heavily promote/invest/recommend them, and the judges look out for it. This is NOT a political thing where only right-of-center folks get a bump of some kind beyond grades/merit.

Don't need to get into another affirmative action debate, but the facts are that both sides profit from this kind of thing so you can't make inferences one way or the other.

Well, conservatives also benefit from more conventional AA. But agreed that the "FedSoc bump" is overstated. Clerkships are fundamentally arbitrary. Liberals with bad grades can luck into COA clerkships (and even SCOTUS clerkships) just like anyone else. Not to mention, many liberals end up clerking for conservative judges. If OP is conservative, applying to Consovoy or Cooper & Kirk makes sense, although both are extremely competitive for obvious reasons.

[Anonymous User]

Cooper & Kirk seems like a super cool firm for those into that stuff, they show up on lots of interesting random lit (e.g. I think they have some plaintiff-side work against Weinstein?), pay market, and look like a very stable place to work versus biglaw, people stick around.

With the direction of the federal courts I think conservative lit boutiques are likely to do well, especially for specialist public law work. Like the tech cos hired Lehotsky Keller and Clement & Murphy to handle the TX/FL tech bill lit which seems very smart.

For OP if you can snag an SA that’s ideal but at most boutiques SAs are neither necessary nor sufficient to get hired. You basically want a COA and great usual credentials, plus things unique to individual firms (e.g. I’m sure a telecoms background would be very useful at Kellogg, which for most intents and purposes is really a telecoms boutique).

[Anonymous User]

Lots of boutiques are hard to summer at or don't have summer programs. Lots hire from clerkships. Either try to land a summer gig or clerk and apply. That's about all you can do other than have great grades, etc., which is generally a prerequsite for the other two things I mentioned.

Any idea what the chances are like for someone who managed to snag a COA clerkship without great grades?

Really depends on the particular shop. In Houston, for example, AZA is easily doable without a clerkship. Lots of places are grade snobs and can be because they are so small. On the other hand, lots of other places are less grade snobby, but focus more on personality because each member of the team is proportionally more of the firm than in big law.

Because lit boutiques differ so much from big law, it's hard to make a general statement. But I think a COA, middle of the road to good grades at a top school, and a good personality will get you an interview at a couple of places. But again, sort of depends on the market you are looking at.

[Anonymous User]

Lots of boutiques are hard to summer at or don't have summer programs. Lots hire from clerkships. Either try to land a summer gig or clerk and apply. That's about all you can do other than have great grades, etc., which is generally a prerequsite for the other two things I mentioned.

Any idea what the chances are like for someone who managed to snag a COA clerkship without great grades?

Not to be rude, but I assume you are Fed Soc, which is usually the case if someone gets COA with good but not great grades. In that case, I'd go with a boutique that is known as right-leaning, and you'll probably have little problem if your grades are good and your bona fides are there.

Totally false. Plenty of people get COA clerkships with good-but-not-great grades due to race/gender/ethnicity affirmative action-type preferences at both the school level and among liberal judges. The schools heavily promote/invest/recommend them, and the judges look out for it. This is NOT a political thing where only right-of-center folks get a bump of some kind beyond grades/merit.

Don't need to get into another affirmative action debate, but the facts are that both sides profit from this kind of thing so you can't make inferences one way or the other.

Well, conservatives also benefit from more conventional AA. But agreed that the "FedSoc bump" is overstated. Clerkships are fundamentally arbitrary. Liberals with bad grades can luck into COA clerkships (and even SCOTUS clerkships) just like anyone else. Not to mention, many liberals end up clerking for conservative judges. If OP is conservative, applying to Consovoy or Cooper & Kirk makes sense, although both are extremely competitive for obvious reasons.

What's the quality of life like at places like Consovoy and Cooper & Kirk. I don't know much about them, but I've heard that some of the lit boutiques, like Kellog, have brutal billables.

[lavarman84]

Cooper & Kirk seems like a super cool firm for those into that stuff, they show up on lots of interesting random lit (e.g. I think they have some plaintiff-side work against Weinstein?), pay market, and look like a very stable place to work versus biglaw, people stick around.

With the direction of the federal courts I think conservative lit boutiques are likely to do well, especially for specialist public law work. Like the tech cos hired Lehotsky Keller and Clement & Murphy to handle the TX/FL tech bill lit which seems very smart.

For OP if you can snag an SA that’s ideal but at most boutiques SAs are neither necessary nor sufficient to get hired. You basically want a COA and great usual credentials, plus things unique to individual firms (e.g. I’m sure a telecoms background would be very useful at Kellogg, which for most intents and purposes is really a telecoms boutique).

I've litigated against Cooper & Kirk (including Chuck Cooper). FWIW, they're much easier to deal with than our average opposing counsel. I'm not sure if that reasonableness translate to how they treat lawyers at the firm, but it would seem like a good omen.

[Anonymous User]

Lots of boutiques are hard to summer at or don't have summer programs. Lots hire from clerkships. Either try to land a summer gig or clerk and apply. That's about all you can do other than have great grades, etc., which is generally a prerequsite for the other two things I mentioned.

Any idea what the chances are like for someone who managed to snag a COA clerkship without great grades?

Not to be rude, but I assume you are Fed Soc, which is usually the case if someone gets COA with good but not great grades. In that case, I'd go with a boutique that is known as right-leaning, and you'll probably have little problem if your grades are good and your bona fides are there.

Totally false. Plenty of people get COA clerkships with good-but-not-great grades due to race/gender/ethnicity affirmative action-type preferences at both the school level and among liberal judges. The schools heavily promote/invest/recommend them, and the judges look out for it. This is NOT a political thing where only right-of-center folks get a bump of some kind beyond grades/merit.

Don't need to get into another affirmative action debate, but the facts are that both sides profit from this kind of thing so you can't make inferences one way or the other.

Well, conservatives also benefit from more conventional AA. But agreed that the "FedSoc bump" is overstated. Clerkships are fundamentally arbitrary. Liberals with bad grades can luck into COA clerkships (and even SCOTUS clerkships) just like anyone else. Not to mention, many liberals end up clerking for conservative judges. If OP is conservative, applying to Consovoy or Cooper & Kirk makes sense, although both are extremely competitive for obvious reasons.

What's the quality of life like at places like Consovoy and Cooper & Kirk. I don't know much about them, but I've heard that some of the lit boutiques, like Kellog, have brutal billables.

My understanding is that Susman Godfrey and Kellogg Hansen are way out in front when it comes to hours. Expect 2700-3000 hours. Cooper & Kirk and Consovoy aren't lifestyle firms, but they're also not that intense. From what I've heard, I'd guess more like 2300.

[Anonymous User]

Lots of boutiques are hard to summer at or don't have summer programs. Lots hire from clerkships. Either try to land a summer gig or clerk and apply. That's about all you can do other than have great grades, etc., which is generally a prerequsite for the other two things I mentioned.

Any idea what the chances are like for someone who managed to snag a COA clerkship without great grades?

Not to be rude, but I assume you are Fed Soc, which is usually the case if someone gets COA with good but not great grades. In that case, I'd go with a boutique that is known as right-leaning, and you'll probably have little problem if your grades are good and your bona fides are there.

Totally false. Plenty of people get COA clerkships with good-but-not-great grades due to race/gender/ethnicity affirmative action-type preferences at both the school level and among liberal judges. The schools heavily promote/invest/recommend them, and the judges look out for it. This is NOT a political thing where only right-of-center folks get a bump of some kind beyond grades/merit.

Don't need to get into another affirmative action debate, but the facts are that both sides profit from this kind of thing so you can't make inferences one way or the other.

Well, conservatives also benefit from more conventional AA. But agreed that the "FedSoc bump" is overstated. Clerkships are fundamentally arbitrary. Liberals with bad grades can luck into COA clerkships (and even SCOTUS clerkships) just like anyone else. Not to mention, many liberals end up clerking for conservative judges. If OP is conservative, applying to Consovoy or Cooper & Kirk makes sense, although both are extremely competitive for obvious reasons.

What's the quality of life like at places like Consovoy and Cooper & Kirk. I don't know much about them, but I've heard that some of the lit boutiques, like Kellog, have brutal billables.

Consovoy is a remote-first firm though they have some office space in Alexandria. Their gender balance is insane even for a conservative lit boutique, 18 men and 2 women.

[Anonymous User]

Lots of boutiques are hard to summer at or don't have summer programs. Lots hire from clerkships. Either try to land a summer gig or clerk and apply. That's about all you can do other than have great grades, etc., which is generally a prerequsite for the other two things I mentioned.

Any idea what the chances are like for someone who managed to snag a COA clerkship without great grades?

Not to be rude, but I assume you are Fed Soc, which is usually the case if someone gets COA with good but not great grades. In that case, I'd go with a boutique that is known as right-leaning, and you'll probably have little problem if your grades are good and your bona fides are there.

Totally false. Plenty of people get COA clerkships with good-but-not-great grades due to race/gender/ethnicity affirmative action-type preferences at both the school level and among liberal judges. The schools heavily promote/invest/recommend them, and the judges look out for it. This is NOT a political thing where only right-of-center folks get a bump of some kind beyond grades/merit.

Don't need to get into another affirmative action debate, but the facts are that both sides profit from this kind of thing so you can't make inferences one way or the other.

Well, conservatives also benefit from more conventional AA. But agreed that the "FedSoc bump" is overstated. Clerkships are fundamentally arbitrary. Liberals with bad grades can luck into COA clerkships (and even SCOTUS clerkships) just like anyone else. Not to mention, many liberals end up clerking for conservative judges. If OP is conservative, applying to Consovoy or Cooper & Kirk makes sense, although both are extremely competitive for obvious reasons.

What's the quality of life like at places like Consovoy and Cooper & Kirk. I don't know much about them, but I've heard that some of the lit boutiques, like Kellog, have brutal billables.

Consovoy is a remote-first firm though they have some office space in Alexandria. Their gender balance is insane even for a conservative lit boutique, 18 men and 2 women.

What does "remote-first" mean? Are you saying that their attorneys can work from anywhere full time? And that is a pretty incredible disparity.

[Anonymous User]

Any idea what the chances are like for someone who managed to snag a COA clerkship without great grades?

Not to be rude, but I assume you are Fed Soc, which is usually the case if someone gets COA with good but not great grades. In that case, I'd go with a boutique that is known as right-leaning, and you'll probably have little problem if your grades are good and your bona fides are there.

Totally false. Plenty of people get COA clerkships with good-but-not-great grades due to race/gender/ethnicity affirmative action-type preferences at both the school level and among liberal judges. The schools heavily promote/invest/recommend them, and the judges look out for it. This is NOT a political thing where only right-of-center folks get a bump of some kind beyond grades/merit.

Don't need to get into another affirmative action debate, but the facts are that both sides profit from this kind of thing so you can't make inferences one way or the other.

Well, conservatives also benefit from more conventional AA. But agreed that the "FedSoc bump" is overstated. Clerkships are fundamentally arbitrary. Liberals with bad grades can luck into COA clerkships (and even SCOTUS clerkships) just like anyone else. Not to mention, many liberals end up clerking for conservative judges. If OP is conservative, applying to Consovoy or Cooper & Kirk makes sense, although both are extremely competitive for obvious reasons.

What's the quality of life like at places like Consovoy and Cooper & Kirk. I don't know much about them, but I've heard that some of the lit boutiques, like Kellog, have brutal billables.

Consovoy is a remote-first firm though they have some office space in Alexandria. Their gender balance is insane even for a conservative lit boutique, 18 men and 2 women.

What does "remote-first" mean? Are you saying that their attorneys can work from anywhere full time? And that is a pretty incredible disparity.

Yes—Strawbridge is in Maine, Green is in Utah, Meehan is in Chicago, Norris is in Tennessee, Park was in Iowa, etc. It was a remote firm even pre-Covid.

[Sackboy]

Let's calm down with the slander here. Consovoy is only 20 men and 3 women, not the horrific 18 men and 2 women stated

[Anonymous User]

Let's calm down with the slander here. Consovoy is only 20 men and 3 women, not the horrific 18 men and 2 women stated

You’re counting their business manager and paralegals, it’s a 20-atty firm

[Anonymous User]

Next let’s count the number of diverse associates and partners at all of these boutiques.

[Anonymous User]

The Venn diagram of people who want to work at Consovoy and the people who care about the gender balance at Consovoy is probably two circles. It jettisoned most of its non-political work when Park left. I think it's the farthest right lit boutique.

[Anonymous User]

The Venn diagram of people who want to work at Consovoy and the people who care about the gender balance at Consovoy is probably two circles. It jettisoned most of its non-political work when Park left. I think it's the farthest right lit boutique.

The conservative legal world definitely still cares about gender balance, women in Fed Soc are in extremely high demand from feeder judges. And more judges than you’d expect on the hard right covertly practice race-based AA too.

[Anonymous User]

The Venn diagram of people who want to work at Consovoy and the people who care about the gender balance at Consovoy is probably two circles. It jettisoned most of its non-political work when Park left. I think it's the farthest right lit boutique.

The conservative legal world definitely still cares about gender balance, women in Fed Soc are in extremely high demand from feeder judges. And more judges than you’d expect on the hard right covertly practice race-based AA too.

I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. Even Trumpy Conservatives still want to hire women. They just don't view a lack of women as an indictment on the firm.