Drowning and unsure what to do Forum

[Anonymous User]

Second year regulatory associate and I'm currently drowning in work. I'm staffed on 12 active matters that are consuming every ounce of me and they are all with the two partners I mainly work with, so I couldn't turn them down. I feel like my work product is really starting to suffer because I'm so burned out that I truly don't care anymore, which sucks because that feeling will obviously change when things eventually slow down. Any advice on how to survive this?

[Anonymous User]

Second year regulatory associate and I'm currently drowning in work. I'm staffed on 12 active matters that are consuming every ounce of me and they are all with the two partners I mainly work with, so I couldn't turn them down. I feel like my work product is really starting to suffer because I'm so burned out that I truly don't care anymore, which sucks because that feeling will obviously change when things eventually slow down. Any advice on how to survive this?

Ugh honestly this is not going to be a popular response, but just deal. In addition to weekends, the additional hours can come from getting 4 hours of sleep every other night. You won’t feel it for a while if you get 7-8 hours the nights in between. Maybe in a different climate I’d suggest otherwise, but I have been there more than once (longest I’ve felt like I was legit drowning was probably a 2.5 month stretch), and it literally always eases up. In this climate, relationships with key partners are just too important. They pay you a ton. You’ll survive. It’ll be fine. When you come up for air, you can decide whether you want go lateral or go in house or govt or whatever. Trust me: when this all dies down in a couple months you’ll be proud of yourself for dealing and you’ll get a ton of implicit leeway to coast.

—senior lit associate v30 large secondary market.

[Dw686]

Are you doing funds work?

[temp69420]

Second year regulatory associate and I'm currently drowning in work. I'm staffed on 12 active matters that are consuming every ounce of me and they are all with the two partners I mainly work with, so I couldn't turn them down. I feel like my work product is really starting to suffer because I'm so burned out that I truly don't care anymore, which sucks because that feeling will obviously change when things eventually slow down. Any advice on how to survive this?

Ugh honestly this is not going to be a popular response, but just deal. In addition to weekends, the additional hours can come from getting 4 hours of sleep every other night. You won’t feel it for a while if you get 7-8 hours the nights in between. Maybe in a different climate I’d suggest otherwise, but I have been there more than once (longest I’ve felt like I was legit drowning was probably a 2.5 month stretch), and it literally always eases up. In this climate, relationships with key partners are just too important. They pay you a ton. You’ll survive. It’ll be fine. When you come up for air, you can decide whether you want go lateral or go in house or govt or whatever. Trust me: when this all dies down in a couple months you’ll be proud of yourself for dealing and you’ll get a ton of implicit leeway to coast.

—senior lit associate v30 large secondary market.

I basically agree with this. What are your hours like? If you hit, say, 600 hours over two months or 900 over three, that's when you could really start pushing back and saying you need to get taken off of something. But if you're at 250 hours/month or less, you probably just have to deal for the moment.

[Anonymous User]

Litigation, so maybe slightly different. But when I’m super busy, the thing that I’ve found helps the most is to look at how my hours are annualizing, and how my being busy now means I’ll be able to work less later. It helps to think about how I could hypothetically take the last month of the year off, even if I’ve never actually done it.

[Anonymous User]

Which regulatory practice? Incoming DC regulatory lawyer here, curious if this is the life that awaits me lol.

[Chubbyleaous]

I will help you with work
Are you in NYC?

[Prudent_Jurist]

I will help you with work
Are you in NYC?

Seems legit.

[Chubbyleaous]

no charge

[breadlaw]

Some of these responses are ridiculous. Please remember that this is just a job and not your life—think that often gets lost around here. Is there a centralized staffing group or staffing partner you can talk to? Do you feel comfortable voicing to either of those partners that you’re struggling? Burnout is worse for them longterm than taking a project or two away from you for a few weeks. Take time for yourself and push back on deadlines if you can.

[Lawman1865]

Some of these responses are ridiculous. Please remember that this is just a job and not your life—think that often gets lost around here. Is there a centralized staffing group or staffing partner you can talk to? Do you feel comfortable voicing to either of those partners that you’re struggling? Burnout is worse for them longterm than taking a project or two away from you for a few weeks. Take time for yourself and push back on deadlines if you can.

Yeah, I think there is some value to the previous responses in how to manage yourself, but there is a middle ground between sucking it up and being miserable for an indefinite period of time and cursing out the two partners. If your hours are really intense (and the two partners can see this), and since it sounds like you work with them regularly, perhaps suggest it they can pull in an additional associate to help/take over a couple of the matters to give you some breathing room (you can frame it that you are happy to keep working for them, but it might help to have some minor additional staffing, etc). It obviously depends on your group, hours and the partners themselves, but certain partners I have worked for have been very receptive to such requests and will understand. Alternatively as breadlaw suggests, you can go to the staffing partner (at the very least, you should not be accepting any new matters, and you can try and explain that).

If they can't do it, then keep pushing I guess, but considering that there is a general slowdown in corporate law, I feel like there's probably an associate who will be able to help out.

[Anonymous User]

Some of these responses are ridiculous. Please remember that this is just a job and not your life—think that often gets lost around here. Is there a centralized staffing group or staffing partner you can talk to? Do you feel comfortable voicing to either of those partners that you’re struggling? Burnout is worse for them longterm than taking a project or two away from you for a few weeks. Take time for yourself and push back on deadlines if you can.

This is more like the TLS I have come to know.

-the original anon responded to OP, noting the preface that his response would be unpopular

[Anonymous User]

I also work in a group that only has 2 partners. If I went to them and told them I was way way way too overloaded, they'd work with me to figure it out (including bringing in another associate to help). If they're going to ignore you when you speak up, then you're just in a terrible workplace. As has already been said, this is a job and not your life. Getting four hours of sleep every other night is just insane and stupid (insanely stupid?). This idea that you get paid "a ton" so sacrifice your health is also batshit insane. The firm does plenty well if OP bills 1,850/yr. (likely making $1M+ in revenue). There is no excuse for a firm to be working OP significantly harder than 2,000/yr., and there is no reason for OP to stay at a firm that expects that. Trust me, you won't see any meaningful appreciation in your bonus or in any other way. Like, wtf world are some of you living in where 900 hours over THREE months would be acceptable? 10 billed hours EVERY DAY of the month for THREE straight months? God damn, capitalism really has broken some of your brains.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

I also work in a group that only has 2 partners. If I went to them and told them I was way way way too overloaded, they'd work with me to figure it out (including bringing in another associate to help). If they're going to ignore you when you speak up, then you're just in a terrible workplace. As has already been said, this is a job and not your life. Getting four hours of sleep every other night is just insane and stupid (insanely stupid?). This idea that you get paid "a ton" so sacrifice your health is also batshit insane. The firm does plenty well if OP bills 1,850/yr. (likely making $1M+ in revenue). There is no excuse for a firm to be working OP significantly harder than 2,000/yr., and there is no reason for OP to stay at a firm that expects that. Trust me, you won't see any meaningful appreciation in your bonus or in any other way. Like, wtf world are some of you living in where 900 hours over THREE months would be acceptable? 10 billed hours EVERY DAY of the month for THREE straight months? God damn, capitalism really has broken some of your brains.

I agree. Going significantly beyond 2000 hours is pointless unless firms are paying life-changing bonus money, which with the possible exception of Wachtell are not.

If I bill a legitimate 2500+ hour year then I want my bonus to be a downpayment on my dream house.

[temp69420]

I also work in a group that only has 2 partners. If I went to them and told them I was way way way too overloaded, they'd work with me to figure it out (including bringing in another associate to help). If they're going to ignore you when you speak up, then you're just in a terrible workplace. As has already been said, this is a job and not your life. Getting four hours of sleep every other night is just insane and stupid (insanely stupid?). This idea that you get paid "a ton" so sacrifice your health is also batshit insane. The firm does plenty well if OP bills 1,850/yr. (likely making $1M+ in revenue). There is no excuse for a firm to be working OP significantly harder than 2,000/yr., and there is no reason for OP to stay at a firm that expects that. Trust me, you won't see any meaningful appreciation in your bonus or in any other way. Like, wtf world are some of you living in where 900 hours over THREE months would be acceptable? 10 billed hours EVERY DAY of the month for THREE straight months? God damn, capitalism really has broken some of your brains.

Nothing you said is inconsistent with my view that you shouldn't push back with months <300 hours. I 100% agree that if OP doesn't like that standard they should move to another firm. But there are places where that's the standard for seriously/successfully pushing back, and OP might want to be at one of those. This has nothing to do with capitalism -- some people want to work this way (for V5 partnership money), some don't, and people should move to firms consistent with their preferences.

[Anonymous User]

When I'm buried and get assigned more work but don't want to make waves, I say something like this: "sure, I'd love to help with that. I could probably get that to you by [date that's totally unreasonable]." The partner will surely respond asking why so long, at which point you are welcome list out what your current work plan the next X days that makes it physically impossible for you to do it sooner. This is especially effective if you only work with a few partners - they know what's on your plate and will have to triage among their matters. If there's someone else who can do the work, they will assign it to that person, and you're off the hook. This is a way to make your life more bearable without crying uncle.

Biglaw is built to squeeze every ounce of work out of you that you will give them. Unless you speak up somehow, they'll just keep adding to your plate. Don't listen to the fools saying you can't put work off in this climate - nobody with monthly billables in excess of 200+ hours are going to be first up on the cutting block.

[nixy]

Some of these responses are ridiculous. Please remember that this is just a job and not your life—think that often gets lost around here. Is there a centralized staffing group or staffing partner you can talk to? Do you feel comfortable voicing to either of those partners that you’re struggling? Burnout is worse for them longterm than taking a project or two away from you for a few weeks. Take time for yourself and push back on deadlines if you can.

This is more like the TLS I have come to know.

-the original anon responded to OP, noting the preface that his response would be unpopular

Yup, TLS posters have got more reasonable over time.

[Sackboy]

"This has nothing to do with capitalism" has to be the most hilariously bad take with respect to anything biglaw, a system where capital holders squeeze every ounce of profitability out of 20-30 something year olds with very little regard for their wellbeing.

[temp69420]

"This has nothing to do with capitalism" has to be the most hilariously bad take with respect to anything biglaw, a system where capital holders squeeze every ounce of profitability out of 20-30 something year olds with very little regard for their wellbeing.

You understand that law firms have essentially no capital, right? The partners aren't in charge because they happen to own capital. It's not like they inherited a factory. The simple fact that a choice has to do with a job doesn't make it intrinsically about capitalism. I'm not convinced you have any idea what capital or capitalism even is.

The reason this all has nothing to do with capitalism is that the choice of how to spend your time exists in any economic system. OP can spend their time trying to make partner at a V5 or working at a lifestyle firm and reading to their kids, or trying to be an olympic skier. All will involve different allocations of effort, and none of it has to do with the wealth of their boss.

[Chubbyleaous]

I agree with Sackboy. The capital that the firm has goes down the elevator at the end of the day and out the door.

[Anonymous User]

"This has nothing to do with capitalism" has to be the most hilariously bad take with respect to anything biglaw, a system where capital holders squeeze every ounce of profitability out of 20-30 something year olds with very little regard for their wellbeing.

You understand that law firms have essentially no capital, right? The partners aren't in charge because they happen to own capital. It's not like they inherited a factory. The simple fact that a choice has to do with a job doesn't make it intrinsically about capitalism. I'm not convinced you have any idea what capital or capitalism even is.

The reason this all has nothing to do with capitalism is that the choice of how to spend your time exists in any economic system. OP can spend their time trying to make partner at a V5 or working at a lifestyle firm and reading to their kids, or trying to be an olympic skier. All will involve different allocations of effort, and none of it has to do with the wealth of their boss.

You either have no idea what you're talking about or are a masterful troll. Regardless, stop it with the arm chair economics. Everything you describe is literally capitalism.

First, lol at trying to argue that the service industry cannot be a capitalist enterprise because it doesn't have factories. You're taking too narrow a view of property. The partnership - a private entity - owns the intellectual property of the firm (including trade secrets), its good will, and all other means for generating profit from your labor. They own all the profits from your labor, and they probably also own your own rights to practice law while employed (I bet you signed something saying you can't practice law elsewhere). Let's put it simply: the alternative is government or some other collective ownership of the means of production. Despite the revolving door, the US government doesn't own any law firm aside from DOJ.

Second, never mind whether other systems like socialism also afford a choice as to how you spend your time - the voluntary exchange of labor for compensation that you describe is a central characteristic of capitalism. You can't dispute that just because your work product is measured in billable hours rather than loaves of bread. Contrast that with socialism, doesn't require that you have the freedom to work where you want.

Third, the choice OP is facing has everything to do with capitalism. OP is selling OP's labor for wages. The profit motive, whether the partners' or OP's, is precisely why OP is working such long hours. The firm has invested capital in training OP, and the firm hopes to get as much profit from that investment as possible. And OP is now deciding how to best act in OP's own self interest, which as I mentioned, you might not be able to do in other economic systems.

[Excellent117]

Second year regulatory associate and I'm currently drowning in work. I'm staffed on 12 active matters that are consuming every ounce of me and they are all with the two partners I mainly work with, so I couldn't turn them down. I feel like my work product is really starting to suffer because I'm so burned out that I truly don't care anymore, which sucks because that feeling will obviously change when things eventually slow down. Any advice on how to survive this?

Ugh honestly this is not going to be a popular response, but just deal. In addition to weekends, the additional hours can come from getting 4 hours of sleep every other night. You won’t feel it for a while if you get 7-8 hours the nights in between. Maybe in a different climate I’d suggest otherwise, but I have been there more than once (longest I’ve felt like I was legit drowning was probably a 2.5 month stretch), and it literally always eases up. In this climate, relationships with key partners are just too important. They pay you a ton. You’ll survive. It’ll be fine. When you come up for air, you can decide whether you want go lateral or go in house or govt or whatever. Trust me: when this all dies down in a couple months you’ll be proud of yourself for dealing and you’ll get a ton of implicit leeway to coast.

—senior lit associate v30 large secondary market.

This is a ridiculous response. No wonder this profession is a complete dumpster fire.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

Second year regulatory associate and I'm currently drowning in work. I'm staffed on 12 active matters that are consuming every ounce of me and they are all with the two partners I mainly work with, so I couldn't turn them down. I feel like my work product is really starting to suffer because I'm so burned out that I truly don't care anymore, which sucks because that feeling will obviously change when things eventually slow down. Any advice on how to survive this?

Ugh honestly this is not going to be a popular response, but just deal. In addition to weekends, the additional hours can come from getting 4 hours of sleep every other night. You won’t feel it for a while if you get 7-8 hours the nights in between. Maybe in a different climate I’d suggest otherwise, but I have been there more than once (longest I’ve felt like I was legit drowning was probably a 2.5 month stretch), and it literally always eases up. In this climate, relationships with key partners are just too important. They pay you a ton. You’ll survive. It’ll be fine. When you come up for air, you can decide whether you want go lateral or go in house or govt or whatever. Trust me: when this all dies down in a couple months you’ll be proud of yourself for dealing and you’ll get a ton of implicit leeway to coast.

—senior lit associate v30 large secondary market.

This is a ridiculous response. No wonder this profession is a complete dumpster fire.

Lots of bankers don’t even get 4 hours of sleep. The difference is that banking bonuses are actually life changing money. Biglaw doesn’t pay enough to make destroying your health worthwhile.

[Anonymous User]

Second year regulatory associate and I'm currently drowning in work. I'm staffed on 12 active matters that are consuming every ounce of me and they are all with the two partners I mainly work with, so I couldn't turn them down. I feel like my work product is really starting to suffer because I'm so burned out that I truly don't care anymore, which sucks because that feeling will obviously change when things eventually slow down. Any advice on how to survive this?

You literally won't, unless you get out. Have you begun crafting your exit strategy?

I hope you're not married. If you are, it will be subject to a test that the vast majority will not survive. A few do in which case, congratulations for winning the relationship lottery, but you'd still better be crafting that exit strategy.

[Lacepiece23]

Lateral. Ramp up, ramp, down, and then lateral again.