Am I Crazy to want to go back to big law? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Left a v10’s NY office about a year ago after spending about a year and a half there and billing 2600+ hours on average. At the time I left, I wanted to spend more time with my SO and young child and was sick of the on-call mandatory Friday night/weekend work. I went to a much smaller market, my home town, that has a much lower cost of living. I went to one of the only National firms in the market that pays about a 1/3 of the Cravath scale (~135k for a 4th year) but still close to top of the market in the smaller market. The work at the new firm does now seem to interest me so far. It is mostly municipal lit work, litigation for small credit unions, and employment work. In my current role I average about 180-190 hours a month with some but not much weekend work. And any weekend work is because I feel obligated to my clients and managing attorneys but is by no means required or expected. All in all, other than the low pay and less than interesting work, it is a pretty chill gig.

I miss the high level/ high profile work that I was doing at the NY v10, especially the Supreme Court work. And I definitely miss the NY pay.

I am considering a remote position with a large litigation shop (v20) that pays Cravath scale. Am I crazy to consider going back to big law? Is it possible to work big law and keep hours at or around 180-190 hours a month with little weekend work?

[Blessedassurance]

180 to 190 (with the occasional 200 here and there) should get you to 2,200 to 2,300 after deducting for vacations. That’s more than enough at most places in the v100.

The weekend work, you can’t predict.

If going back, try to go somewhere not in the V20 and avoid New York to the extent possible. I don’t understand the obsession with v20 (not directed to you). Lots of places outside the V20 pay the same. You will not work on Supreme Court cases or cases appearing in the WSJ, but does it matter (especially at the detriment of your wlb/health)?

[Anonymous User]

Also interested in this, since I am strongly considering doing the same thing (except from in-house back to biglaw, and finance).

[Anonymous User]

180 to 190 (with the occasional 200 here and there) should get you to 2,200 to 2,300 after deducting for vacations. That’s more than enough at most places in the v100.

The weekend work, you can’t predict.

If going back, try to go somewhere not in the V20 and avoid New York to the extent possible. I don’t understand the obsession with v20 (not directed to you). Lots of places outside the V20 pay the same. You will not work on Supreme Court cases or cases appearing in the WSJ, but does it matter (especially at the detriment of your wlb/health)?

Going to a V20 (I’d say V25) is exactly where he should be aiming given the impending recession.

[existentialcrisis]

180 to 190 (with the occasional 200 here and there) should get you to 2,200 to 2,300 after deducting for vacations. That’s more than enough at most places in the v100.

The weekend work, you can’t predict.

If going back, try to go somewhere not in the V20 and avoid New York to the extent possible. I don’t understand the obsession with v20 (not directed to you). Lots of places outside the V20 pay the same. You will not work on Supreme Court cases or cases appearing in the WSJ, but does it matter (especially at the detriment of your wlb/health)?

Going to a V20 (I’d say V25) is exactly where he should be aiming given the impending recession.

Yes,IMO.

But different strokes for different folks I suppose.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. I’m not so concerned with Vault ranking, but I’m in a market where there are literally 0 vault ranked firms and 0 firms that pay NYC market. That is why I’m considering a remote position with a large litigation focused firm’s west coast office (think Portland or Seattle).

Does geographic location of a large firm really impact hours/expectations that much compared to a NYC office?

[anon3030]

180-190 hours a month seems pretty high for a small market at 135k. I’d consider a remote position with an am law 200 firm that pays 2/3 cravath scale and you probably won’t work more and maybe less.

I went from a v25 to a super regional firm and have biled like 130-170 a month after the first year with no weekend work and make 2/3 cravath scale.

[Anonymous User]

I would look at other firms in your market. With a young family and no need for the money I don't see why you'd want to go back to biglaw vs. try to get what you came to your market for. I practice in a small VLCOL market and to my ear your hours sound high, your salary sounds low, and your work sounds boring. In my market the V100 satellites are less attractive than the top-of-the-market local firms in all of those respects, and it may be the same in yours. Go find the best litigation partners in your city--the ones who get the major trials and appeals for significant regional companies--and work for them, because they seemingly aren't at your firm. Another proxy may be what firms the T14 grads and federal clerks tend to gravitate to. Or who writes the best briefs in your SSC.

[Anonymous User]

180 to 190 (with the occasional 200 here and there) should get you to 2,200 to 2,300 after deducting for vacations. That’s more than enough at most places in the v100.

The weekend work, you can’t predict.

If going back, try to go somewhere not in the V20 and avoid New York to the extent possible. I don’t understand the obsession with v20 (not directed to you). Lots of places outside the V20 pay the same. You will not work on Supreme Court cases or cases appearing in the WSJ, but does it matter (especially at the detriment of your wlb/health)?

Going to a V20 (I’d say V25) is exactly where he should be aiming given the impending recession.

Why the cutoff at a V25 (Jones Day or better) in a recession? I understand why a V25 would likely be better positioned in a recession than a much lower-ranked vault firm, but is there a material benefit to ending up at a V25 than most of the V50?

[Elston Gunn]

If you are billing over 2k you should absolutely be making market, so no you’re not crazy at all.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

Billing over 2000 for 135K makes literally no sense if you have the credentials to be hired by a V10 firm.

[Anonymous User]

I’ve been in NYC big law for 7 years and billed between 1,900-2,300 every year with most years on the lower half of that range. I don’t think 2,600 or so hours is what you need to expect although the specific firm and group are important (and there is also luck involved). I don’t think you’re crazy at all but in a small market do everything possible if you leave to do so on good terms.

[Anonymous User]

Left a v10’s NY office about a year ago after spending about a year and a half there and billing 2600+ hours on average. At the time I left, I wanted to spend more time with my SO and young child and was sick of the on-call mandatory Friday night/weekend work. I went to a much smaller market, my home town, that has a much lower cost of living. I went to one of the only National firms in the market that pays about a 1/3 of the Cravath scale (~135k for a 4th year) but still close to top of the market in the smaller market. The work at the new firm does now seem to interest me so far. It is mostly municipal lit work, litigation for small credit unions, and employment work. In my current role I average about 180-190 hours a month with some but not much weekend work. And any weekend work is because I feel obligated to my clients and managing attorneys but is by no means required or expected. All in all, other than the low pay and less than interesting work, it is a pretty chill gig.

I miss the high level/ high profile work that I was doing at the NY v10, especially the Supreme Court work. And I definitely miss the NY pay.

I am considering a remote position with a large litigation shop (v20) that pays Cravath scale. Am I crazy to consider going back to big law? Is it possible to work big law and keep hours at or around 180-190 hours a month with little weekend work?

Your salary really seems low if you’re truly at a “national firm” in your city. For example, market for first years in Birmingham is $135k, in Cincinnati is $150k, in Indianapolis is $145k. I’d check peer firms in your city because I think you’re being underpaid.

[Sackboy]

In a smaller market, you really shouldn't be expected to bill more than 1850 to be bonus eligible and be easily on pace to make partner, which is ~150/mo. If you're billing 180+, you're getting fucked.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Unfortunately, the top of market for my class year in litigation is only $145k at an outlier firm. I interviewed with many of the larger firms in the area and had offers (then as a third year) for 90k to 125k. The market for legal talent is simply not there. I’m also at a firm where many of the litigators, like me, are former federal clerks. It is unfortunate, but it is the reality.

[Anonymous User]

OP must be at Bradley Arant in Birmingham.

[Anonymous User]

If they paid you 200 would your thinking be different? 250?

Maybe try to negotiate your pay, but think about what amount would make it worth your while.

IDK about other people here, but I am similar to you and have thought about doing something similar. The problem I foresee with going back to big law is long term prospects. when you are a 10th-30th year lawyer, do you want to be a big law partner and work big law hours? do you think you can be a partner from your hometown? Are you willing to relocate to a big market eventually?

What do partners make at the firm you are at? are you good with that amount? If so, how long until you can get there? I think it is easy to take a short term view of big law being the answer, but unless ur planning on FIRE, careers are long and big law is a slog.

[Anonymous User]

OP again. No, not in Alabama. I’m on the west coast someplace. As for making partner at a BL firm/partner prospects, I have very little insight into what partners make at my firm and I can find very little information on that. My partnership prospects are probably good, and I’m looking at at least two years before making partner (eligible after year 6). If my compensation was between 170k and 200k, I doubt I’d even consider going back to big law. That said, I had to push this firm hard to get them up to 135k, so I doubt they’d be willing to increase my salary now. I think the plan if I went back to BL would be to stay as long as I could and then try to jump to an AUSA position. (My long term ambitions are judicial).

[Anonymous User]

OP must be at Bradley Arant in Birmingham.

Just in case anyone comes across this thread, Bradley Arant (and the other bigger firms in Birmingham) all start first years at $160k.

[LittleRedCorvette]

Billing over 2000 for 135K makes literally no sense if you have the credentials to be hired by a V10 firm.

This but replace "by a V10 firm" with "by a market paying firm."

[Anonymous User]

Left a v10’s NY office about a year ago after spending about a year and a half there and billing 2600+ hours on average. At the time I left, I wanted to spend more time with my SO and young child and was sick of the on-call mandatory Friday night/weekend work. I went to a much smaller market, my home town, that has a much lower cost of living. I went to one of the only National firms in the market that pays about a 1/3 of the Cravath scale (~135k for a 4th year) but still close to top of the market in the smaller market. The work at the new firm does now seem to interest me so far. It is mostly municipal lit work, litigation for small credit unions, and employment work. In my current role I average about 180-190 hours a month with some but not much weekend work. And any weekend work is because I feel obligated to my clients and managing attorneys but is by no means required or expected. All in all, other than the low pay and less than interesting work, it is a pretty chill gig.

I miss the high level/ high profile work that I was doing at the NY v10, especially the Supreme Court work. And I definitely miss the NY pay.

I am considering a remote position with a large litigation shop (v20) that pays Cravath scale. Am I crazy to consider going back to big law? Is it possible to work big law and keep hours at or around 180-190 hours a month with little weekend work?

Speaking just for myself, I would try to re-enter elite biglaw. When you leave the elite ranks, you often never get back in. This may be your last chance and you may kick yourself later for not taking advantage of it. Of course, that depends on how important your career is to you relative to WLB.