Would you take this in-house job? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi all. Looking to crowdsource if I should accept this role. Currently a third year (so 2 yoe) in M&A. Burnt out from billing 3k hour years. Want to go in-house for better WLB. Got an offer from a non-FAANG publicly traded software company. 140k base, 10% bonus, standard other benefits. Fully remote with option to come in to a nearby regional office location if I want to. Pros: sounds like it's a pretty predictable 9-5 with good wlb (my most important goal), confident that I'll like the work itself (mostly contract negotiating supporting the sales team), concerned I might not get another/better offer for awhile if I turn this one down, given current market conditions. Cons: I have 210k in (private) student loans and am hesitant to give up biglaw pay for that reason. I also keep reading about dangers of going in house too junior and getting stuck from a career perspective.

I plan to counter and try to get base salary up a bit, but even if it moves 10-15k I'm a little hesitant.

Thoughts? Should I try to hold out for a better offer?

[jhett]

Where would you hand in the in-house hierarchy? Is it a junior position?

[Lawman1865]

Hi all. Looking to crowdsource if I should accept this role. Currently a third year (so 2 yoe) in M&A. Burnt out from billing 3k hour years. Want to go in-house for better WLB. Got an offer from a non-FAANG publicly traded software company. 140k base, 10% bonus, standard other benefits. Fully remote with option to come in to a nearby regional office location if I want to. Pros: sounds like it's a pretty predictable 9-5 with good wlb (my most important goal), confident that I'll like the work itself (mostly contract negotiating supporting the sales team), concerned I might not get another/better offer for awhile if I turn this one down, given current market conditions. Cons: I have 210k in (private) student loans and am hesitant to give up biglaw pay for that reason. I also keep reading about dangers of going in house too junior and getting stuck from a career perspective.

I plan to counter and try to get base salary up a bit, but even if it moves 10-15k I'm a little hesitant.

Thoughts? Should I try to hold out for a better offer?

I could see it going both ways.

On the upside, it is a public tech company, and it sounds like you'll possibly get some good experience, fully remote and as long as you are committed to staying in-house, you could possibly spend a few years and transition out to a different company at better comp.

On the other hand though, it seems like this would probably be a junior position in the legal department of the company (I assume). I think the advice about not going in house too soon in your career is valuable, I was once offered a similar kind of in-house position (with similar comp) and turned it down for that reason. Most of the in-house attorneys I know spent at least 3-4+ years, although that is not always the case.

I have not been a position of billing 3k hours annually and so it might be that important to jump. That being said, assuming you are valued at your firm, perhaps it is better to stay another year or two and get comfortable turning down work when you are slammed. Even if you take a reputation hit, you would presumably be looking to leave anyway in the next year or two, and I think you'll then have a better shot at comp + opportunities.

[ukjobsonwetton]

Why do counter offer to try to raise salary in a recession? I would just be nice and be outstanding. And talk a year from now.

[Anonymous User]

140k base, 10% bonus, standard other benefits.

Meanwhile, 22 year olds with 0YOE are probably making $160K at the same company as SDEs lol.

[Anonymous User]

Why do counter offer to try to raise salary in a recession? I would just be nice and be outstanding. And talk a year from now.

Because at the negotiation stage is when you have the greatest leverage over salary. Once you accept you’re stuck with what they give you. No need to be nice to an employer because there’s a recession.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks all. Yes this is a junior corporate counsel role (bottom of the hierarchy).

I'm really torn about leaving biglaw pay on the table. But super desperate for great WLB.

Lawman1865, are you glad you turned down the role in hindsight? Are you still at a firm?

To the person asking why counter, I currently have a biglaw job. So I don't NEED to accept any offer just because it's a "recession".

[nealric]

Salary/bonus seems fairly low. No equity offered?

I think my biggest concern, however, would be that this appears to be a pretty junior role. Going in too low on the totem pole can make it hard to advance, especially if it's hard to get good visibility for achievements. Despite all the recession talk, the job market overall is still tight. This position doesn't sound like anything special, so I wouldn't be too worried about nothing like this coming around again. You may not feel overwhelming ambition for a more senior role, but being too junior can also make you disposable come layoff time and make it harder to sell your experience to a new employer.

Another note on remote: It sounds great in theory, but keep in mind that success in-house can be very political. You don't just need to do good work, you need to be seen as doing good work. There's no objective measure like billable hours for your productivity, so a lot of how people feel about your work can just be from talking to them. That happens a lot more when it doesn't have to be formally scheduled. You also need people to know who you are so you are properly kept in the loop on things. Ideally, you want to be in the corporate HQ, so you are near the people who actually have power in the organization.

As an aside, if there truly is a recession, that may give you better w/l balance anyways. Only the restructuring folks were billing those sorts of hours in the great recession.

[Anonymous User]

That salary seems pretty low. I wouldn’t take it even if you were debt free. I would hold out for a better job and also wait until your year-end bonus is paid out. Could you even service your debt and pay a mortgage on that salary?

I went in-house (non-FAANG/non-tech pubco) near the end of my 5th year after doing M&A and my total comp is about 3x what they’re offering you. I applied for dozens of jobs and interviewed at 10+ before finding my current role. I set a hard floor of the comp that I would accept and ended up getting an offer well-above that floor.

Going through the process, I was tempted to accept a couple jobs with way lower comp because I was also burnt out and desperate to make the jump. I’m incredibly happy to have waited it out for the right role. I would advise (1) taking a 2 week vacation and (2) just trying less hard at work (I hate the phrase quiet-quitting why applied to biglaw but there’s room to set boundaries and make it suck a little less than when you’re billing that much).

[Anonymous User]

That salary is too low and too junior.

I would lateral to escape the 3k hours (yikes) and buy yourself a little time. Put in one more year and you should be good to go. Consider a v50-v75 firm that pays market and see if you can get better WLB at your firm. This forum places entirely too much emphasis on law firm prestige for going in-house.

[jhett]

Starting bottom rung in-house is not a good idea, since if you just wait another year or two you can get mid-level positions with better pay. Entering at a junior position will mean you send more years at that level before you can move up to mid level.

[Inhousefuture]

Hi all. Looking to crowdsource if I should accept this role. Currently a third year (so 2 yoe) in M&A. Burnt out from billing 3k hour years. Want to go in-house for better WLB. Got an offer from a non-FAANG publicly traded software company. 140k base, 10% bonus, standard other benefits. Fully remote with option to come in to a nearby regional office location if I want to. Pros: sounds like it's a pretty predictable 9-5 with good wlb (my most important goal), confident that I'll like the work itself (mostly contract negotiating supporting the sales team), concerned I might not get another/better offer for awhile if I turn this one down, given current market conditions. Cons: I have 210k in (private) student loans and am hesitant to give up biglaw pay for that reason. I also keep reading about dangers of going in house too junior and getting stuck from a career perspective.

I plan to counter and try to get base salary up a bit, but even if it moves 10-15k I'm a little hesitant.

Thoughts? Should I try to hold out for a better offer?

How does the company stand on 401 K match, equity, misc benefits (i.e food)?

Thanks

[Anonymous User]

If you're billing 3k hour years you're in demand enough to start saying no sometimes. And you're also worth more than that salary. Hard pass.

[Anonymous User]

I am a biglaw partner who has never billed more than 2200 client billable hours. You should lateral. There are plenty of firms (especially outside of NYC and in the bottom half of the V100) where you can make biglaw market or close to it without truly awful hours. You will probably never make more than “market” comp, but “market” is so stupidly inflated these days that getting a sustainable job in private practice is the winning play if you can deal with having a 9-9 type job.

[Lawman1865]

Thanks all. Yes this is a junior corporate counsel role (bottom of the hierarchy).

I'm really torn about leaving biglaw pay on the table. But super desperate for great WLB.

Lawman1865, are you glad you turned down the role in hindsight? Are you still at a firm?

To the person asking why counter, I currently have a biglaw job. So I don't NEED to accept any offer just because it's a "recession".

Hi OP, I agree with a few of the recent posters, particularly the anon that talked about waiting and interviewing with many different in-house positions before pulling the trigger. From what I have heard from others that made the move, it is better to do it for the right reasons rather than just to escape the 3k hours.

I ended up lateraling to a V50 firm and have been happy with the decision. I have gained more experience than I had (I'm in corporate but not M&A) and may make the in-house move in the next couple of years depending how things fall out. I recognize the lateral market is not what it was, but there may still be some firms looking for junior/midlevel M&A associates. It will allow you to take some time in between the jobs (you can probably have 2-4 weeks if you play your cards right, and say no to as much as possible when you hand in your two week notice) and possibly have a ramp up period as well (I had a few quiet months when I started at my new firm). You can do that, or otherwise as others have suggested, get comfortable saying no to projects a bit more and you might find the next year or two more bearable (and will have better options on the other side).

Good luck with whatever decision you make.

[persia1921]

Agree with the other posters here. I think there is a real risk that taking this position will pigeonhole you into a lower-paying/more junior role.

[Elston Gunn]

Less concerned that it’s a junior role in and of itself, and more that it’s a commercial role supporting Sales. Commercial Counsel is just not a fun job (at least from the outside), and doesn’t have a great potential for growth. The salary is pretty commensurate with how rote the work is.

[Anonymous User]

Unfortunately, not a good offer or role from the sounds of it. Echo those who say to lateral somewhere where you can cut 800-1200 hours off your workload.

[hangtime813]

Agreed with everything posted previously, but to provide a different perspective: if you are after WLB assuming this job is truly 9-5 and remote, and doing contract negotiations supporting sales (essentially commercial counsel) is up your alley, 140k for a junior role isnt that bad in and of itself. While commercial counsel roles always seem available, doing M&A as opposed to something like tech trans may make it harder to get a commercial counsel gig in the future.

[Anonymous User]

I was in a similar situation to the OP around their current year, in terms of hours (3k) and with a similar debt-load. That debt is the great equalizer. OP, you should absolutely think about lateraling to another firm rather than taking this offer. See if you can go to a lower ranked firm, get yourself some breathing room--ideally with a little bit of time off between firms, and see if the new shop does your WLB better while still giving you enough cash to materially reduce your debt. This is what I did, and my second firm job had far more reasonable hours (no more than 2,300 at the height of COVID shenanigans). Worst case, it doesn't work out and you leave after a year from there in-house.

This will also set you up for success long term. With more time on your hands, you'll get more experience, letting you push for more senior jobs or jobs with higher pay, and you'll be less likely to take the first (and potentially not the best) in-house option that presents itself to you--assuming at that point you even want to still go in house. Time, existing material cash flow, and less debt (or even savings) all give you bargaining power, even in a potential recession, and definitely more security in a recession. When I went in house after my second firm, each of these let me feel more confident in my search and be more precise with the exit I ultimately took (public non-FAANG tech with all-in comp over 200k, and that's after retooling away from my original practice area to go in-house).