Appropriate Rent Budget for 1st Year BigLaw Associate in NYC? Forum

[Anonymous User]

It looks like the going rate for a cramped studio in Manhattan is about $3,500. That comes out to about $42,000 per year. Is this a cost of living worth eating? Flee to the boroughs/suburbs and brave the commute? All thoughts and input welcome.

[Anonymous User]

It looks like the going rate for a cramped studio in Manhattan is about $3,500. That comes out to about $42,000 per year. Is this a cost of living worth eating? Flee to the boroughs/suburbs and brave the commute? All thoughts and input welcome.

Depends entirely on the neighborhood. If you're trying to live in like, the West Village or Tribeca, then $3,500 for a cramped studio might make sense. But if you're willing to go to FiDi or Yorkville or one of the less desirable neighborhoods for living then you should be able to get a studio for around $3,000 if you look around enough and try to haggle. $3,500 could also get you a one bedroom (a worthy investment in the work from home age) in Manhattan if you're willing to be flexible on neighborhood.

[Anonymous User]

It looks like the going rate for a cramped studio in Manhattan is about $3,500. That comes out to about $42,000 per year. Is this a cost of living worth eating? Flee to the boroughs/suburbs and brave the commute? All thoughts and input welcome.

I lived in Brooklyn and commuted to Manhattan. But I would not recommend a commute over 30 minutes. Commuting on public transit in NYC is absolutely draining, unless you are just taking the metro into grand central or the amtrak to penn station. The real move is to bag NYC and work in a secondary market that pays the same.

[Anonymous User]

$3,500 would be a very nice studio in a very luxury building. You can easily find a decent studio or small one bedroom on the upper east side (for example) for under $3k.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

As a general rule, TLSers will understate actual living costs. A luxury studio can cost in excess of $6K now.

As a first year, you can absolutely get a place in Manhattan for $3K or less. Look at streeteasy. It’s probably going to be a crappy place but you might get lucky and find a place you like under $3K.

You should probably avoid any “cool” neighborhoods or luxury doorman buildings in lower Manhattan because you don’t get paid enough to live in them. Paying $5K a month will make you miserable fast

Astoria and Brooklyn are worth a look

[Anonymous User]

With $3K, you should be able to rent something livable in a non-trendy neighborhood.

The reality is you unlock real savings by getting a roommate. The best way to do that is to find an S.O. and move in together.

[Anonymous User]

I pay $1400 a month living in Jersey. (Split with fiancé). I absolutely love the apartment I’m in. It’d be north of $5k in Manhattan. Door to door my commute is 55 minutes. Its not a bad commute at all, but I just started last week so time will tell.

[Moneytrees]

I pay $1400 a month living in Jersey. (Split with fiancé). I absolutely love the apartment I’m in. It’d be north of $5k in Manhattan. Door to door my commute is 55 minutes. Its not a bad commute at all, but I just started last week so time will tell.

My brother in christ, that's a horrific commute in Biglaw.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

I pay $1400 a month living in Jersey. (Split with fiancé). I absolutely love the apartment I’m in. It’d be north of $5k in Manhattan. Door to door my commute is 55 minutes. Its not a bad commute at all, but I just started last week so time will tell.

My brother in christ, that's a horrific commute in Biglaw.

Assuming this guy or gal is still going in a month from now when the eagerness wears off.

Anyway, it’s probably a nice place for $2800 an hour away from the city.

[Anonymous User]

WFH has changed things. It's worth budgeting for space to have non-depressing desk set up. Another factor is creating a tolerable commute for the days you go in. If you can do both, then go as low as you can with the price. If that means $4,500, so be it.

[Wild Card]

where are you looking? it should be 2100 to 2400 for a studio

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

where are you looking? it should be 2100 to 2400 for a studio

“Should be” is meaningless in this context, but the guy saying $4500 is fine is also wrong IMO. Your typical biglaw first year has debt and minimal savings, so they’re not in a safe position to spend $4500 on monthly rent.

[Anonymous User]

Anecdotally, I've lived in NYC for 10 years now (am a senior associate) and I just had this conversation with a bunch of first years and they were all paying $4k to $6k for studios or one bedrooms in Manhattan or LIC. When I was a first year, I think people paid around $2k to $4k. Also, I have many non-lawyer friends who make $80 to $125k and they are generally paying $3k to $5k for studios and one bedrooms in Manhattan.

[Anonymous User]

It looks like the going rate for a cramped studio in Manhattan is about $3,500. That comes out to about $42,000 per year. Is this a cost of living worth eating? Flee to the boroughs/suburbs and brave the commute? All thoughts and input welcome.

I think that is a normal price for a good studio. You can probably bring it down to 3k if you go to a less desirable neighborhood, which I would not recommend though. Maybe also look in Jersey City? Screw people who make fun of you, while enjoying extra money a month in a pretty nice area with amazing views. Would not opt for a one-bedroom, as for a nice one you'll be up in 4k territory, and it's just a bit much for one person to bear.

[Winter is Coming]

It looks like the going rate for a cramped studio in Manhattan is about $3,500. That comes out to about $42,000 per year. Is this a cost of living worth eating? Flee to the boroughs/suburbs and brave the commute? All thoughts and input welcome.

I lived in Brooklyn and commuted to Manhattan. But I would not recommend a commute over 30 minutes. Commuting on public transit in NYC is absolutely draining, unless you are just taking the metro into grand central or the amtrak to penn station. The real move is to bag NYC and work in a secondary market that pays the same.

What is the metro? In what world is someone commuting to NYC Biglaw on Amtrak?

I don't disagree with the secondary market point, but I have found that most people who move to NY are so caught up with the idea that everything is so expensive they accept really insane rents. The biggest scam by far is paying a broker fee on an apt where you don't even use a broker.

Everyone is different but if you are willing to have some roommates you can find plenty of spots in midtown east, upper east side or hells kitchen where you'd be paying around 2100-2200 per person (i.e. two bedrooms, one bathroom). I did this as a junior, no one will be impressed by your place but putting that extra cash towards loans/investing will set you up.

For a long time people didn't want to go higher than around 90th street, but now crime is pretty bad everywhere so might as well go for it. You can be a pioneer of gentrification.

If you have time, set up a search on Streeteasy (or whatever other site) search with notifications, a few neighborhoods and with a max rent you think reasonable and no fee. You will find something reasonable.

Astoria is great, but if you go too far from Subway the commute is not worth the savings.

[Anonymous User]

Anecdotally, I've lived in NYC for 10 years now (am a senior associate) and I just had this conversation with a bunch of first years and they were all paying $4k to $6k for studios or one bedrooms in Manhattan or LIC. […]

How is $6k even possible — isn’t first-year takehome pay in NYC like $10-11k per month? IDK how you’d get approved for that kind of rent, and how you would afford or save for anything else.

[Anonymous User]

It looks like the going rate for a cramped studio in Manhattan is about $3,500. That comes out to about $42,000 per year. Is this a cost of living worth eating? Flee to the boroughs/suburbs and brave the commute? All thoughts and input welcome.

I lived in Brooklyn and commuted to Manhattan. But I would not recommend a commute over 30 minutes. Commuting on public transit in NYC is absolutely draining, unless you are just taking the metro into grand central or the amtrak to penn station. The real move is to bag NYC and work in a secondary market that pays the same.

What is the metro? In what world is someone commuting to NYC Biglaw on Amtrak?

I don't disagree with the secondary market point, but I have found that most people who move to NY are so caught up with the idea that everything is so expensive they accept really insane rents. The biggest scam by far is paying a broker fee on an apt where you don't even use a broker.

Everyone is different but if you are willing to have some roommates you can find plenty of spots in midtown east, upper east side or hells kitchen where you'd be paying around 2100-2200 per person (i.e. two bedrooms, one bathroom). I did this as a junior, no one will be impressed by your place but putting that extra cash towards loans/investing will set you up.

For a long time people didn't want to go higher than around 90th street, but now crime is pretty bad everywhere so might as well go for it. You can be a pioneer of gentrification.

If you have time, set up a search on Streeteasy (or whatever other site) search with notifications, a few neighborhoods and with a max rent you think reasonable and no fee. You will find something reasonable.

Astoria is great, but if you go too far from Subway the commute is not worth the savings.

The Metro-North line. Probably not relevant for most new associates but I knew a couple people who lived in Connecticut and commuted into NYC on this. It’s an above ground train with generally good seating.

My partner had a spot on the upper East side around 90th street when we were in nyc and it wasn’t bad at all. And the Q line also makes the commute much easier. I think this would be a great spot now.

If you are a true city person, then you will probably enjoy nyc and not mind the absurd prices. But the rent is just plainly ridiculous. I got to the point where I just could not pay 5k for a one bedroom anymore on principle. Literally look at what that gets you in basically every other city besides maybe San Francisco. If you don’t love nyc, it will not be worth it.

[Anonymous User]

Anecdotally, I've lived in NYC for 10 years now (am a senior associate) and I just had this conversation with a bunch of first years and they were all paying $4k to $6k for studios or one bedrooms in Manhattan or LIC. […]

How is $6k even possible — isn’t first-year takehome pay in NYC like $10-11k per month? IDK how you’d get approved for that kind of rent, and how you would afford or save for anything else.

First years make $215k now and $20k bonus. 30% of that is $70,500 or $5,875 per month for rent. People are generally told that 30% on rent is normal, and that it will be higher than 30% in cities like NY and SF. So I don't think $6k is out of the question (although I personally wouldn't and didn't go that high when I was a first year), especially if the person doesn't have loans.

In my experience as a New Yorker, the people who come here from out of town are actually the ones who rent very nice apartments with amenities like doormen, in-unit laundry, recent renovations and no roommates, because they're accustomed to having that nicer standard of living back in Kentucky or wherever, and those who grew up or went to college relatively near this area (NJ, NY, CT, PA) are the ones who typically accept roommates, walk-ups, no doormen, living outside of Manhattan, etc. Just something I've observed. I think the out-of-towners are afraid of boroughs outside of Manhattan and just generally aren't aware that there are cheaper options out there, or they don't have the connections to obtain roommates who aren't total strangers, so they're the ones who rent the luxury studios/one bedrooms for $5k to $6k and accept it as normal.

As for paying a broker's fee, well, it sucks but is hard to avoid.

Most people I know start out living in Hell's Kitchen, Kips Bay, Murray Hill, East/West Village and Fidi with a few UES or UWS. Some in Downtown Brooklyn if the office is in Fidi. Some in LIC if the office is in Midtown. LES for some more fun single folks. Then as people get older and start buying instead of renting, I see them moving out to NJ suburbs or Jersey City/Hoboken, Long Island and deeper parts of Brooklyn. Some young partners buy in Tribeca. The old partners are in the UES, Long Island or CT. A few in Jersey.

For me, personally, the things to look for in an NYC apartment are -
1: Doorman (avoids getting your packages stolen/unable to receive packages when you're not home and prevents feeling unsafe (as a single woman, the latter was important to me)).
2: Elevator, if you live above the fourth floor
3: AC
4: In-building laundry (not necessarily in-unit)
5: Not super loud at night (don't live near a lively bar - have done it and you can really hear that shit, even on a higher floor, if your building is older)
6: Within 45 minutes of the office, door to door (factoring in walking to/from the subway and waiting for the inevitably delayed subway)
7: If you live with a partner, some sort of separate area where you can work that isn't right next to your bed (like an alcove; doesn't need to be a separate room)

For all of the above in today's market with no roommate, assuming your office is in Fidi or Midtown or Hudson Yards, I would say $3.5k to $5k should be expected. $6k if you want a gym in building and in-unit laundry. I don't think a first year has to feel bad about spending around 30%. You really do make a lot of money and I know plenty who lived in luxury apartments their entire careers and still paid off their loans within 3 years of Big Law (although I acknowledge those people only had law school loans and not both undergrad and law school).

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

Anecdotally, I've lived in NYC for 10 years now (am a senior associate) and I just had this conversation with a bunch of first years and they were all paying $4k to $6k for studios or one bedrooms in Manhattan or LIC. […]

How is $6k even possible — isn’t first-year takehome pay in NYC like $10-11k per month? IDK how you’d get approved for that kind of rent, and how you would afford or save for anything else.

First years make $215k now and $20k bonus. 30% of that is $70,500 or $5,875 per month for rent. People are generally told that 30% on rent is normal, and that it will be higher than 30% in cities like NY and SF. So I don't think $6k is out of the question (although I personally wouldn't and didn't go that high when I was a first year), especially if the person doesn't have loans.

In my experience as a New Yorker, the people who come here from out of town are actually the ones who rent very nice apartments with amenities like doormen, in-unit laundry, recent renovations and no roommates, because they're accustomed to having that nicer standard of living back in Kentucky or wherever, and those who grew up or went to college relatively near this area (NJ, NY, CT, PA) are the ones who typically accept roommates, walk-ups, no doormen, living outside of Manhattan, etc. Just something I've observed. I think the out-of-towners are afraid of boroughs outside of Manhattan and just generally aren't aware that there are cheaper options out there, or they don't have the connections to obtain roommates who aren't total strangers, so they're the ones who rent the luxury studios/one bedrooms for $5k to $6k and accept it as normal.

As for paying a broker's fee, well, it sucks but is hard to avoid.

Most people I know start out living in Hell's Kitchen, Kips Bay, Murray Hill, East/West Village and Fidi with a few UES or UWS. Some in Downtown Brooklyn if the office is in Fidi. Some in LIC if the office is in Midtown. LES for some more fun single folks. Then as people get older and start buying instead of renting, I see them moving out to NJ suburbs or Jersey City/Hoboken, Long Island and deeper parts of Brooklyn. Some young partners buy in Tribeca. The old partners are in the UES, Long Island or CT. A few in Jersey.

For me, personally, the things to look for in an NYC apartment are -
1: Doorman (avoids getting your packages stolen/unable to receive packages when you're not home and prevents feeling unsafe (as a single woman, the latter was important to me)).
2: Elevator, if you live above the fourth floor
3: AC
4: In-building laundry (not necessarily in-unit)
5: Not super loud at night (don't live near a lively bar - have done it and you can really hear that shit, even on a higher floor, if your building is older)
6: Within 45 minutes of the office, door to door (factoring in walking to/from the subway and waiting for the inevitably delayed subway)
7: If you live with a partner, some sort of separate area where you can work that isn't right next to your bed (like an alcove; doesn't need to be a separate room)

For all of the above in today's market with no roommate, assuming your office is in Fidi or Midtown or Hudson Yards, I would say $3.5k to $5k should be expected. $6k if you want a gym in building and in-unit laundry. I don't think a first year has to feel bad about spending around 30%. You really do make a lot of money and I know plenty who lived in luxury apartments their entire careers and still paid off their loans within 3 years of Big Law (although I acknowledge those people only had law school loans and not both undergrad and law school).

The standard is 40x and many landlords want 44x now from anybody. Further, landlords are especially skeptical of people starting a new job/career. No first year is qualifying to live alone in any $6000 rental in NYC, unless their parents financially guarantee their obligations under the lease. The landlord has no reason to sign a lease with such a person, when far more qualified tenants are out there and ready to sign fast

[Anonymous User]

I feel like this topic has been done so many times. There are lots of options out there. You can pay $6k for a one bedroom in a new building with amenities or you can pay $3.5k in an older building without amenities. Or you can live with roommates and pay even less. Or you can live in some parts of Brooklyn or Queens and pay less. How much of your paycheck you want to put toward rent is up to you (and your ability to get approval from a landlord) and your priorities. I agree that the people that tend to go to the luxury buildings and to cluster in Chelsea, Hells Kitchen, Murray Hill, etc., are those moving to NYC for the first time who aren't used to a city with older housing stock/think they need a lot of conveniences that those who have been in NYC know you can live perfectly well without (like in-unit laundry)/think they need a fancy apartment to prove to others (and themselves) that they have "made it." The best you can do is figure out what budget you are comfortable with and start looking in that range, knowing you can always adjust up or down as needed.

[barre777]

I will show you my building in Brooklyn near Crown Heights.
2100 for a 2 bedroom, no doorman.
15 minute walk to metro, which means subway.
I think it's 50 minutes to get to Manhattan.
When I walk to subway it's safe. If you come home at 11pm, you may want to be with someone.

[Sackboy]

Paying $2,100 to live an hour away from work. God bless.