Higher-ranked Satellite vs. Lower-ranked HQ Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hello,

I have a bit of a dilemma I am facing. I am interested in doing transactional law work, particularly with exposure to international matters. I have the opportunity to practice in two vastly different contexts. The first opportunity is a lower-ranked V50, in their HQ NYC office. The other opportunity is at a higher-ranked (still V50) firm in the OC, in a satellite office. The satellite office is sub-100 headcount. I am not native to the Mid-Atlantic or Southern California, but I have lived in LA before and really enjoyed it. I realize the OC is not really LA. I have no expectations of making partner nor would I necessarily have any long-term desire in staying in the Mid-Atlantic. I will be satisfied if I am able to make some money for a few years and then transition to something more sustainable.

I know without all the specifics this is really hard to provide solid advice on. Nevertheless, I am wondering what drawbacks would potentially come with a satellite office in Orange County. If I lived in Orange County, I would eventually want to make my way to actual Los Angeles.

What advice can anyone offer on the potential pros/cons of a satellite office, and whether the rankings, either through Vault, or more specifically through Chambers will have a significant bearing on exit opportunities, given that both firms are V50.

Thanks for your help!

[Anonymous User]

Go to the New York office. New York to LA is a move people make all the time, and if you want to make that move, people won't ask you too many questions. Tons of law graduates end up in NYC. And lots of NYC people move to LA because of the space and weather. OC to LA is not uncommon but it might raise eyebrows because people will wonder why you ended up in OC in the first place.

Is a biglaw firm in LA not an option for you?

[Anonymous User]

Hello,

I have a bit of a dilemma I am facing. I am interested in doing transactional law work, particularly with exposure to international matters. I have the opportunity to practice in two vastly different contexts. The first opportunity is a lower-ranked V50, in their HQ NYC office. The other opportunity is at a higher-ranked (still V50) firm in the OC, in a satellite office. The satellite office is sub-100 headcount. I am not native to the Mid-Atlantic or Southern California, but I have lived in LA before and really enjoyed it. I realize the OC is not really LA. I have no expectations of making partner nor would I necessarily have any long-term desire in staying in the Mid-Atlantic. I will be satisfied if I am able to make some money for a few years and then transition to something more sustainable.

I know without all the specifics this is really hard to provide solid advice on. Nevertheless, I am wondering what drawbacks would potentially come with a satellite office in Orange County. If I lived in Orange County, I would eventually want to make my way to actual Los Angeles.

What advice can anyone offer on the potential pros/cons of a satellite office, and whether the rankings, either through Vault, or more specifically through Chambers will have a significant bearing on exit opportunities, given that both firms are V50.

Thanks for your help!

Just FYI, New York City isn't the Mid-Atlantic. It's the Northeast. Mid-Atlantic is like, Philadelphia down through Virginia. (Really, the DC area.)

[LittleRedCorvette]

Hello,

I have a bit of a dilemma I am facing. I am interested in doing transactional law work, particularly with exposure to international matters. I have the opportunity to practice in two vastly different contexts. The first opportunity is a lower-ranked V50, in their HQ NYC office. The other opportunity is at a higher-ranked (still V50) firm in the OC, in a satellite office. The satellite office is sub-100 headcount. I am not native to the Mid-Atlantic or Southern California, but I have lived in LA before and really enjoyed it. I realize the OC is not really LA. I have no expectations of making partner nor would I necessarily have any long-term desire in staying in the Mid-Atlantic. I will be satisfied if I am able to make some money for a few years and then transition to something more sustainable.

I know without all the specifics this is really hard to provide solid advice on. Nevertheless, I am wondering what drawbacks would potentially come with a satellite office in Orange County. If I lived in Orange County, I would eventually want to make my way to actual Los Angeles.

What advice can anyone offer on the potential pros/cons of a satellite office, and whether the rankings, either through Vault, or more specifically through Chambers will have a significant bearing on exit opportunities, given that both firms are V50.

Thanks for your help!

Just FYI, New York City isn't the Mid-Atlantic. It's the Northeast. Mid-Atlantic is like, Philadelphia down through Virginia. (Really, the DC area.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-Atlan ... 20Virginia.

[nixy]

Hello,

I have a bit of a dilemma I am facing. I am interested in doing transactional law work, particularly with exposure to international matters. I have the opportunity to practice in two vastly different contexts. The first opportunity is a lower-ranked V50, in their HQ NYC office. The other opportunity is at a higher-ranked (still V50) firm in the OC, in a satellite office. The satellite office is sub-100 headcount. I am not native to the Mid-Atlantic or Southern California, but I have lived in LA before and really enjoyed it. I realize the OC is not really LA. I have no expectations of making partner nor would I necessarily have any long-term desire in staying in the Mid-Atlantic. I will be satisfied if I am able to make some money for a few years and then transition to something more sustainable.

I know without all the specifics this is really hard to provide solid advice on. Nevertheless, I am wondering what drawbacks would potentially come with a satellite office in Orange County. If I lived in Orange County, I would eventually want to make my way to actual Los Angeles.

What advice can anyone offer on the potential pros/cons of a satellite office, and whether the rankings, either through Vault, or more specifically through Chambers will have a significant bearing on exit opportunities, given that both firms are V50.

Thanks for your help!

Just FYI, New York City isn't the Mid-Atlantic. It's the Northeast. Mid-Atlantic is like, Philadelphia down through Virginia. (Really, the DC area.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-Atlan ... 20Virginia.

Do people you know really talk about NYC as mid-Atlantic?

[Anonymous User]

Just FYI, New York City isn't the Mid-Atlantic. It's the Northeast. Mid-Atlantic is like, Philadelphia down through Virginia. (Really, the DC area.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-Atlan ... 20Virginia.

Do people you know really talk about NYC as mid-Atlantic?

Never. NY is solidly Northeast, but not New England. Sure, technically it's also mid-Atlantic, but nobody refers to it as such. Jersey on the other hand is solidly mid-Atlantic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast ... ted_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England

[Moneytrees]

Hello,

I have a bit of a dilemma I am facing. I am interested in doing transactional law work, particularly with exposure to international matters. I have the opportunity to practice in two vastly different contexts. The first opportunity is a lower-ranked V50, in their HQ NYC office. The other opportunity is at a higher-ranked (still V50) firm in the OC, in a satellite office. The satellite office is sub-100 headcount. I am not native to the Mid-Atlantic or Southern California, but I have lived in LA before and really enjoyed it. I realize the OC is not really LA. I have no expectations of making partner nor would I necessarily have any long-term desire in staying in the Mid-Atlantic. I will be satisfied if I am able to make some money for a few years and then transition to something more sustainable.

I know without all the specifics this is really hard to provide solid advice on. Nevertheless, I am wondering what drawbacks would potentially come with a satellite office in Orange County. If I lived in Orange County, I would eventually want to make my way to actual Los Angeles.

What advice can anyone offer on the potential pros/cons of a satellite office, and whether the rankings, either through Vault, or more specifically through Chambers will have a significant bearing on exit opportunities, given that both firms are V50.

Thanks for your help!

Just FYI, New York City isn't the Mid-Atlantic. It's the Northeast. Mid-Atlantic is like, Philadelphia down through Virginia. (Really, the DC area.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-Atlan ... 20Virginia.

Do people you know really talk about NYC as mid-Atlantic?

Not at all.

[Anonymous User]

Somehow - I knew that this absolutely mindless and unimportant distinction of mid-atlantic vs. northeast would be at the forefront of this thread as soon as I read it in OPs comment.

First, to OP, literally impossible for anyone to answer this question without knowing the two firms in question.

Okay - now for the real meat of it. Both NY and NJ are technically mid-atlantic, but locals (not you transplants which most of us avoid) wouldn't refer to NY/NJ as mid-atlantic.

They'd say they're from NY or NJ first, then they'd say they're from the east coast. Finally, they'd say Northeast, but neither "northeast" nor "midatlantic" are terms we'd use.

Caveat: I have no idea what south jersey people that rep Philly refer to themselves at. Maybe they use mid-atlantic, but they don't really matter at all for anything.

[Anonymous User]

Somehow - I knew that this absolutely mindless and unimportant distinction of mid-atlantic vs. northeast would be at the forefront of this thread as soon as I read it in OPs comment.

First, to OP, literally impossible for anyone to answer this question without knowing the two firms in question.

Okay - now for the real meat of it. Both NY and NJ are technically mid-atlantic, but locals (not you transplants which most of us avoid) wouldn't refer to NY/NJ as mid-atlantic.

They'd say they're from NY or NJ first, then they'd say they're from the east coast. Finally, they'd say Northeast, but neither "northeast" nor "midatlantic" are terms we'd use.

Caveat: I have no idea what south jersey people that rep Philly refer to themselves at. Maybe they use mid-atlantic, but they don't really matter at all for anything.

As a Virginian, we wouldn’t include NY/NJ in the midatlantic either. Definitely Maryland and Delaware, definitely not the entirety of Pennsylvania. I agree that Philly and south Jersey are a tough call - if someone from Philly insisted they were midatlantic I’d say sure, which I guess implies that anything in NJ south of Philly also counts.

Going the opposite direction, I’d personally loop North Carolina into the definition as well.

[Anonymous User]

Somehow - I knew that this absolutely mindless and unimportant distinction of mid-atlantic vs. northeast would be at the forefront of this thread as soon as I read it in OPs comment.

First, to OP, literally impossible for anyone to answer this question without knowing the two firms in question.

Okay - now for the real meat of it. Both NY and NJ are technically mid-atlantic, but locals (not you transplants which most of us avoid) wouldn't refer to NY/NJ as mid-atlantic.

They'd say they're from NY or NJ first, then they'd say they're from the east coast. Finally, they'd say Northeast, but neither "northeast" nor "midatlantic" are terms we'd use.

Caveat: I have no idea what south jersey people that rep Philly refer to themselves at. Maybe they use mid-atlantic, but they don't really matter at all for anything.

As a Virginian, we wouldn’t include NY/NJ in the midatlantic either. Definitely Maryland and Delaware, definitely not the entirety of Pennsylvania. I agree that Philly and south Jersey are a tough call - if someone from Philly insisted they were midatlantic I’d say sure, which I guess implies that anything in NJ south of Philly also counts.

Going the opposite direction, I’d personally loop North Carolina into the definition as well.

Truly, these are the useless arguments on TLS that I live for.

As a Northern Virginian, agreed w/r/t most of above poster's arguments. NY/NJ are solidly Northeast. Pennsylvania is the tough call - I would say that the Philly metro could either be Mid-Atlantic or Northeast, but I learn toward them being Northeast since culturally they're an archetypically Northeastern city.

Also not sure that North Carolina would be mid-Atlantic - culturally most of North Carolina should fit into the South, to a much larger extent compared to Virginia where the southern elements are a smaller portion of the state.

So I would define the core mid-Atlantic region as DE, MD, DC, VA, and maybe WV just because the latter isn't a good fit anywhere else.

[LittleRedCorvette]

Somehow - I knew that this absolutely mindless and unimportant distinction of mid-atlantic vs. northeast would be at the forefront of this thread as soon as I read it in OPs comment.

First, to OP, literally impossible for anyone to answer this question without knowing the two firms in question.

Okay - now for the real meat of it. Both NY and NJ are technically mid-atlantic, but locals (not you transplants which most of us avoid) wouldn't refer to NY/NJ as mid-atlantic.

They'd say they're from NY or NJ first, then they'd say they're from the east coast. Finally, they'd say Northeast, but neither "northeast" nor "midatlantic" are terms we'd use.

Caveat: I have no idea what south jersey people that rep Philly refer to themselves at. Maybe they use mid-atlantic, but they don't really matter at all for anything.

As a Virginian, we wouldn’t include NY/NJ in the midatlantic either. Definitely Maryland and Delaware, definitely not the entirety of Pennsylvania. I agree that Philly and south Jersey are a tough call - if someone from Philly insisted they were midatlantic I’d say sure, which I guess implies that anything in NJ south of Philly also counts.

Going the opposite direction, I’d personally loop North Carolina into the definition as well.

Truly, these are the useless arguments on TLS that I live for.

As a Northern Virginian, agreed w/r/t most of above poster's arguments. NY/NJ are solidly Northeast. Pennsylvania is the tough call - I would say that the Philly metro could either be Mid-Atlantic or Northeast, but I learn toward them being Northeast since culturally they're an archetypically Northeastern city.

Also not sure that North Carolina would be mid-Atlantic - culturally most of North Carolina should fit into the South, to a much larger extent compared to Virginia where the southern elements are a smaller portion of the state.

So I would define the core mid-Atlantic region as DE, MD, DC, VA, and maybe WV just because the latter isn't a good fit anywhere else.

WV = Appalachia.

[The Lsat Airbender]

here's the dope:

[+] Spoiler

• Everything from the Potomac northwards is the Northeast, which is basically just the Acela corridor plus the suburban hinterlands of New England and New York.

• NYC is part of the mid-Atlantic, which is roughly the southern half of the Northeast.

• But it's at the extreme northern end of that region which I assume is why people from the other end of the region might exclude it—just as Ohioans might exclude Kansans from the Midwest and vice-versa.

• Somewhere between NYC and New Haven you transition to New England, which is roughly the northern half of the Northeast. NYC is definitely not in New England, so it must be in the Mid-Atlantic (because, IMO, there's no real in-between, but see below)

• If someone excludes NY from the mid-Atlantic then they're implicitly putting the NYC metro area into it's own region, betwixt New England and the mid-Atlantic. What's definitely nuts, despite its suggestion upthread, is the notion of a "Northeast" which includes NYC but not Philadelphia or Baltimore.

[Anonymous User]

Okay, specifics: Paul Hastings OC vs. Shearman & Sterling NYC?

[Anonymous User]

Also, thank you for catching my geographic faux pas. I am proud I could facilitate such lively debate.

[Anonymous User]

Okay, specifics: Paul Hastings OC vs. Shearman & Sterling NYC?

PH is a firm that's well known for having a good culture, and OC is a biglaw market that is also well-known for being one of the best when it comes to work-life balance. Shearman on the other hand has a fairly good transactional practice, even if it's not nearly as strong of a firm as it used to be.

I think you should pick Shearman for the training and exposure to top-level work (and I assume those things will lead to better exit opportunities), and PH if you want a 'sustainable' lifestyle in biglaw.

[Anonymous User]

Hello,

I have a bit of a dilemma I am facing. I am interested in doing transactional law work, particularly with exposure to international matters. I have the opportunity to practice in two vastly different contexts. The first opportunity is a lower-ranked V50, in their HQ NYC office. The other opportunity is at a higher-ranked (still V50) firm in the OC, in a satellite office. The satellite office is sub-100 headcount. I am not native to the Mid-Atlantic or Southern California, but I have lived in LA before and really enjoyed it. I realize the OC is not really LA. I have no expectations of making partner nor would I necessarily have any long-term desire in staying in the Mid-Atlantic. I will be satisfied if I am able to make some money for a few years and then transition to something more sustainable.

I know without all the specifics this is really hard to provide solid advice on. Nevertheless, I am wondering what drawbacks would potentially come with a satellite office in Orange County. If I lived in Orange County, I would eventually want to make my way to actual Los Angeles.

What advice can anyone offer on the potential pros/cons of a satellite office, and whether the rankings, either through Vault, or more specifically through Chambers will have a significant bearing on exit opportunities, given that both firms are V50.

Thanks for your help!

First, I'd say you should stop calling it "the OC". That's something that only people in tv shows do and you'll get laughed at if you call it that once you're there. That said, it's an awesome place to live. If you end up picking that, my advice would be to live as close to the beach as possible if you don't think you'll stay there long term - enjoy it while you can before you have a family and living by the beach becomes less attainable.

For what it's worth, I started my career at a large firm in their Orange County office. I lateraled back to a white shoe NY firm a couple years later and it wasn't too difficult. That said, it was a grind at times to get work in my firm's Orange County office because the big offices didn't really send us much so it was totally dependent on the local partners being busy. Personally, I think a larger office like NY is a better place to start out because the only way to be good at this job is to get in lots of reps in, but if you know you don't want to do this long term then maybe Orange County is a good choice and I'm sure there are in-house options around LA once you have a few years under your belt. And I also second that the lifestyle in our Orange County office was way way better. And my commute was like 10 minutes and I lived by the beach, so it was great to have some free time to enjoy those things. In LA if you live by the beach it's a bit of a hike downtown.