Struck out at OCI. Lost all motivation. Forum

[Anonymous User]

Dunno what I should do. T6. When I think abt how much efforts I put in I feel like crying.

Any suggestions? Now looking into in-house internship and public sector OCI for 2L summer. I wonder if the recruiting. might be easier? Still interested in biglaw SA but feel it's so hard.

[Anonymous User]

Mass mail. Now.

[mandrewsf]

What's the circumstance that led to this outcome? Bad grades? Poor bidding? Unpolished interviews? Combination of the above? First try to figure out what didn't work. Then I'd start mass emailing the recruitment team of each V100 in NYC/Chicago with your resume and express your interest in their firm's summer programs. Reach out to alumni at those firms to set up coffee or (as I'd do if I were in your shoes) directly ask them to forward your resume to their recruiters.

At the end of the day, you're still going to a prestigious law school and plenty of firms will want someone with your degree on their firm profile. All is not lost yet, and it sucks that your efforts didn't pay off yet but keep working hard and you'll get there.

[becodalapa]

Dunno what I should do. T6. When I think abt how much efforts I put in I feel like crying.

Any suggestions? Now looking into in-house internship and public sector OCI for 2L summer. I wonder if the recruiting. might be easier? Still interested in biglaw SA but feel it's so hard.

Are you international?

[Anonymous User]

Dunno what I should do. T6. When I think abt how much efforts I put in I feel like crying.

Any suggestions? Now looking into in-house internship and public sector OCI for 2L summer. I wonder if the recruiting. might be easier? Still interested in biglaw SA but feel it's so hard.

Are you international?

Unfortunately yes

[WSY]

Dunno what I should do. T6. When I think abt how much efforts I put in I feel like crying.

Any suggestions? Now looking into in-house internship and public sector OCI for 2L summer. I wonder if the recruiting. might be easier? Still interested in biglaw SA but feel it's so hard.

Are you international?

Yes unfortunately. How do u know haha

[Anonymous User]

What's the circumstance that led to this outcome? Bad grades? Poor bidding? Unpolished interviews? Combination of the above? First try to figure out what didn't work. Then I'd start mass emailing the recruitment team of each V100 in NYC/Chicago with your resume and express your interest in their firm's summer programs. Reach out to alumni at those firms to set up coffee or (as I'd do if I were in your shoes) directly ask them to forward your resume to their recruiters.

At the end of the day, you're still going to a prestigious law school and plenty of firms will want someone with your degree on their firm profile. All is not lost yet, and it sucks that your efforts didn't pay off yet but keep working hard and you'll get there.

Bad grades. Have good interview skills. Also went to prestigious undergrad. Wondering if any firm less grade sensitive?

[Anonymous User]

Sounds like you're either at NYU or Penn.

If NYU, contact Pamela Mittman immediately: https://www.law.nyu.edu/careerservices/ ... s/contacts.

If Penn, contact Maureen Reilly immediately: https://www.law.upenn.edu/live/profiles ... een-reilly.

There are people in your situation every year, and every year the students get through it. Irene Dorzback, who used to head Career Services at NYU, was an absolute pro at getting biglaw jobs for students who struck out. You just have to communicate early enough with the right people at your school.

[Anonymous User]

Dunno what I should do. T6. When I think abt how much efforts I put in I feel like crying.

Any suggestions? Now looking into in-house internship and public sector OCI for 2L summer. I wonder if the recruiting. might be easier? Still interested in biglaw SA but feel it's so hard.

Are you drunk and/or is English not your first language?

Okay, let's be respectful, shall we? Let's not kick OP while they're down.

[LittleRedCorvette]

Dunno what I should do. T6. When I think abt how much efforts I put in I feel like crying.

Any suggestions? Now looking into in-house internship and public sector OCI for 2L summer. I wonder if the recruiting. might be easier? Still interested in biglaw SA but feel it's so hard.

Are you drunk and/or is English not your first language?

Okay, let's be respectful, shall we? Let's not kick OP while they're down.

Cool use of anon. And, shocking as it may be, the kick might have included a legitimate question. OP might have done poorly because they are not able to professionally communicate in the English language.

[Anonymous User]

Is it just me or has TLS been infiltrated by a certain kind of mean, aspie, overconfident d-bag

[Anonymous User]

OP please ignore the haters - it will be okay. I was at a T10 and knew a handful of people in this situation. All but one of them got good jobs (including one at a V10) - the one who didn't was a prick who took absolutely no initiative and deserved every ounce of failure that he got. You sound like you're thoughtful and hardworking (traits that will help you when you inevitably land a good job), so you'll be able to pull through.

Do not take matters into your own hands - I agree with others ITT that you should talk to career services first. This happens every year to at least someone, and as things settle down from OCI they will be able to focus a lot of their attention on making sure everybody (you included) gets a good job. Your interests are mostly aligned - their job is literally too make sure everyone is employed at graduation to help with their numbers for rankings. It's not like you're at some TTT school where they would say tough luck. Anecdotally, sometimes firms under hire and reach out to schools directly for people that might be available.

TL;DR with some effort (which you've proven you're willing to do) things will all work out.

[Anonymous User]

Sounds like you're either at NYU or Penn.

If NYU, contact Pamela Mittman immediately: https://www.law.nyu.edu/careerservices/ ... s/contacts.

If Penn, contact Maureen Reilly immediately: https://www.law.upenn.edu/live/profiles ... een-reilly.

There are people in your situation every year, and every year the students get through it. Irene Dorzback, who used to head Career Services at NYU, was an absolute pro at getting biglaw jobs for students who struck out. You just have to communicate early enough with the right people at your school.

Second this!!

Good luck OP. This is not over yet! And even if nothing comes this time around (and I think it will if you put in the effort), then there is always 3L hiring. If you're at CCN (or Penn), you'll be fine. Just be easy on yourself; I know it probably feels like the sky is falling, but it isn't.

[Wanderingdrock]

A few years back I read an opinion piece from someone saying that the T-14 wasn't a worthwhile investment because the employment numbers were inflated by the schools funding jobs (research positions, fellowships, etc.) for recent graduates. In other words, the price tag wasn't worth it when you adjusted the employment numbers down to account for how many students' first jobs were funded by their schools.

But like, why would we adjust the numbers down? Employment is employment and it's a HUGE advantage that T14s have the resources to fund positions for their graduates!

If you're not able to land a Biglaw gig (though your paths are not exhausted there) you should look into non-Biglaw positions, including through Career Services, and consider the options best suited to positioning you for a Biglaw job a year later.

[crazywafflez]

Talk to career services at your school. Start cold emailing alum and/or recruiting departments at basically any and all big firms in Chi/NYC/ whatever market you want to be in.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

Is it just me or has TLS been infiltrated by a certain kind of mean, aspie, overconfident d-bag

Such posters are still better than we had before.

[Lacepiece23]

Is it just me or has TLS been infiltrated by a certain kind of mean, aspie, overconfident d-bag

It’s been that way since it’s inception.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Is it just me or has TLS been infiltrated by a certain kind of mean, aspie, overconfident d-bag

Sir, this is a forum for lawyers.

[Anonymous User]

A few years back I read an opinion piece from someone saying that the T-14 wasn't a worthwhile investment because the employment numbers were inflated by the schools funding jobs (research positions, fellowships, etc.) for recent graduates. In other words, the price tag wasn't worth it when you adjusted the employment numbers down to account for how many students' first jobs were funded by their schools.

But like, why would we adjust the numbers down? Employment is employment and it's a HUGE advantage that T14s have the resources to fund positions for their graduates!

If you're not able to land a Biglaw gig (though your paths are not exhausted there) you should look into non-Biglaw positions, including through Career Services, and consider the options best suited to positioning you for a Biglaw job a year later.

Why is this relevant to OP? (1) OP isn't graduating yet and those aren't for graduates and (2) biglaw is totally still in the cards.

These are largely short term gigs that are just used to inflate rankings by saying everyone was employed. When USNWR starting counting these jobs differently, miraculously the number of graduates being funneled into these positions dropped (I think it was for the worst, a lot of PI people used these as an opportunity to work somewhere that wasn't hiring as a fellow, and then ended up landing a great job when it opened up). That's a good thing for OP though - CS is incentivized to get OP a real job, not just a random fellowship funded by the school.

[Anonymous User]

What's the circumstance that led to this outcome? Bad grades? Poor bidding? Unpolished interviews? Combination of the above? First try to figure out what didn't work. Then I'd start mass emailing the recruitment team of each V100 in NYC/Chicago with your resume and express your interest in their firm's summer programs. Reach out to alumni at those firms to set up coffee or (as I'd do if I were in your shoes) directly ask them to forward your resume to their recruiters.

At the end of the day, you're still going to a prestigious law school and plenty of firms will want someone with your degree on their firm profile. All is not lost yet, and it sucks that your efforts didn't pay off yet but keep working hard and you'll get there.

(Anon because I am on the hiring committee of a big firm.)

I agree with these questions--you do need to assess what went wrong here to get a better sense of what kind of strategy you need to take going into the next year or so. From what I know about our hiring committee approach, even if you're a pretty mediocre candidate from a top school where we are strategically looking at expanding our footprint, you would likely still get an offer if you at least made it to the callback rounds. If you're at a T6 and falling short either at the screener stage or you're making it to the callbacks but not able to secure an offer, there's something going on here you need to face. If it means doing a mock interview with a mentor or a career services member, that could help you identify glaring weaknesses that are holding you back. Same goes with your resume.

You should definitely start looking at mid-size and small law firms. Don't take your foot off the pedal because those spots go fast, especially with the market looking the way it does, those spots are coveted as well. Also apply to in-house and compliance positions as need be. You don't want to go in to January not having done anything and everything to at least secure some position you can talk about intelligently in 3L recruiting.

Final word: striking out at OCI is not fatal. It's obviously not ideal and it does make things harder, but I am someone who was from a T30 who struck out at OCI but I hustled and ended up getting an offer at my current firm as a 3L in a stroke of luck. There's planning and strategy that should go into where you put your time and efforts in the next year, but it's not the end. The difference between you and someone else who is in the same position getting a 3L offer could depend on how much you network and hustle in the next year.

[Wanderingdrock]

A few years back I read an opinion piece from someone saying that the T-14 wasn't a worthwhile investment because the employment numbers were inflated by the schools funding jobs (research positions, fellowships, etc.) for recent graduates. In other words, the price tag wasn't worth it when you adjusted the employment numbers down to account for how many students' first jobs were funded by their schools.

But like, why would we adjust the numbers down? Employment is employment and it's a HUGE advantage that T14s have the resources to fund positions for their graduates!

If you're not able to land a Biglaw gig (though your paths are not exhausted there) you should look into non-Biglaw positions, including through Career Services, and consider the options best suited to positioning you for a Biglaw job a year later.

Why is this relevant to OP? (1) OP isn't graduating yet and those aren't for graduates and (2) biglaw is totally still in the cards.

These are largely short term gigs that are just used to inflate rankings by saying everyone was employed. When USNWR starting counting these jobs differently, miraculously the number of graduates being funneled into these positions dropped (I think it was for the worst, a lot of PI people used these as an opportunity to work somewhere that wasn't hiring as a fellow, and then ended up landing a great job when it opened up). That's a good thing for OP though - CS is incentivized to get OP a real job, not just a random fellowship funded by the school.

As I said, Biglaw paths are not exhausted. This is a fall-back option which, as each of us has said, can lead to great longer term opportunities. A little puzzled by your reaction since we agree on the substance, friend, including that OP has plenty of hope with Career Services' help.

[Anonymous User]

Dunno what I should do. T6. When I think abt how much efforts I put in I feel like crying.

Any suggestions? Now looking into in-house internship and public sector OCI for 2L summer. I wonder if the recruiting. might be easier? Still interested in biglaw SA but feel it's so hard.

Are you international?

Why did you ask this / how did you know?

[Anonymous User]

redacted

[Wanderingdrock]

Dunno what I should do. T6. When I think abt how much efforts I put in I feel like crying.

Any suggestions? Now looking into in-house internship and public sector OCI for 2L summer. I wonder if the recruiting. might be easier? Still interested in biglaw SA but feel it's so hard.

Are you international?

Why did you ask this / how did you know?

Not OP but there are a couple of turns of phrase suggestive of a non-native English speaker. Potentially relevant because non-native English and needing a visa (neither necessarily true of an international student but both common) can both give employers pause, even occasionally in Biglaw. Identifying these as stumbling blocks can be crucial. Neither is the fault of the applicant but both can be addressed or mitigated in different ways.

[becodalapa]

Dunno what I should do. T6. When I think abt how much efforts I put in I feel like crying.

Any suggestions? Now looking into in-house internship and public sector OCI for 2L summer. I wonder if the recruiting. might be easier? Still interested in biglaw SA but feel it's so hard.

Are you international?

Why did you ask this / how did you know?

Not OP but there are a couple of turns of phrase suggestive of a non-native English speaker. Potentially relevant because non-native English and needing a visa (neither necessarily true of an international student but both common) can both give employers pause, even occasionally in Biglaw. Identifying these as stumbling blocks can be crucial. Neither is the fault of the applicant but both can be addressed or mitigated in different ways.

This is exactly it. The post read like it was written by a non-native English speaker and sometimes non-US citizens/permanent residents have a harder time at OCI for a variety of reasons.