My Crazy Career - AMA Forum

[Grandstrategygame]

This topic was originally posted on another board. I was advised to re-post it where users could comment anonymously, and I believe that is the case on this board.

This is the story of how I went from jobless law school grad to partnership track associate at a leading law firm. It's been a very strange ride, but I am happy to share what insight I've gained along the way.

Law School: Its helpful to start with a little bit of background on my legal education. Like many of you, I read TLS prior to starting law school in 2011. Like some of you, I ignored advice to retake the LSAT (162). I ended up attending a school ranked in the bottom half of T1 (60s) without a scholarship. The school was in a secondary market though, and I thought that might help with job prospects. Maybe that was true to an extent, but it wasn't enough to avoid the dismissal start of my career. More on that below.

I worked hard in law school and had a strong first semester. That was enough to gain a coveted 1L summer associate position through a diversity job fair (I'm half-Latino). The summer associate position went well, but the regional firm where I worked did not extend offers to the 1Ls, so I was left to attend OCI with everyone else. Unfortunately, I bombed a class second semester of 1L year and my grades ended up around median -- where I remained throughout my law school career. I did not get a job through OCI, but I found something that paid during the summer -- a small firm with no real prospect of permanent employment. I wrote my way onto a secondary journal before 3L year. Yes, that means I did write-on twice after bombing it the first time around.

My Career: I graduated without a job in 2014, but at least I passed the bar with flying colors. I hand wrote the bar on a whim after being pissed off about my classmates' ability to seemingly type 300 words per minute (Pro Tip: You don't need to type fast to practice law, but it helps for law school). Perhaps by sheer luck, the decision paid off and I did really well on the exam. What is great about acing the bar is that nobody cares.

I had no job, but I was really good at FIFA 14. I also took up Raquetball with another jobless friend. Good times.

I applied to dozens of jobs and, after bar results, finally got two interviews at the same time. The first was a city attorney job doing civil rights defense. The second was at a small firm that did plaintiffs-side Fair Debt Collection Practices Act work. For those of you that do not know, sometimes debt collectors call you when they shouldn't. Imagine, if when they did this, you decided to sue them in Federal Court for 200 dollars. Let me tell you, judges love these cases.

As you've probably guessed based on my demonstrated FDCPA expertise, I got and took the firm job. The pay was okay - 70k - but I actually wanted the city job because it didn't involve suing debt collectors over spam telephone calls. The city job, however, had multiple rounds of interviews and I didn't think I could pass up a sure thing.

I was now a practicing lawyer! I even had an office; never mind that it was actually the foyer to my boss's office - or that next to my desk sat a giant cigar-shop-Indian obtained from the wealth generated by collecting attorney's fees on 10,000 lawsuits seeking 200 dollars in damages. My boss - a less than reasonable man - wanted me to draft and file six complaints a day in federal courts throughout the country. This was in addition to the work lawyers typically do - speak to clients, write motions and responses, conduct discovery, etc. This was a special kind of hell.

I lasted at the job for almost 90 days. I quit after my boss confronted me about talking to my fiancé in the car. Of course, I was telling her how miserable the job was, but he didn't overhear me. He was just pissed that I took a lunch break.

I was now jobless again. For about 30 minutes I contemplated leaving the practice of law altogether. That, or I thought maybe I could open my own firm, which in retrospect I think would not have worked given that I only knew how to litigate FDCPA claims and the market was cornered by wonderful people like my boss.

That was a bad 30 minutes, but now is a good time to tell you that I was very good in law school at one thing - networking. I networked like a mad man in law school because I knew my grades weren't going to get me where I wanted to be. I networked with everyone -- big law partners, academics, small firm attorneys, and literally anyone else who was willing to engage with me. I really got along with one lawyer - an older attorney who owned a small personal injury firm. Because I am fairly ballsy, and because I genuinely liked him, I invited him to my wedding. As I was leaving my firm, he called me to say that he received my invitation; he also asked how work was going. I told him I had just quit, and he offered me a job on the spot.

I was now a personal injury attorney! With me, the firm that I joined had four attorneys. I had to take a pay cut to 55k, but the environment was really good. Some of the cases were too. We had our fair share of seven and eight figure personal injury, civil rights, and medical malpractice claims, but most were admittedly much smaller. For example, it wouldn't be uncommon for us to take a 15k slip-and-fall claim. I got the sense that those types of claims paid the bills and funded the larger cases.

I worked there for a little over 3 years. My salary increased to 70 and 75k, and I also earned referral fees when I brought in business. My total compensation my final year was low six figures.

I still wanted more though, in terms of complexity and compensation. With 3+ years of experience under my belt, I applied two firms and got two interviews. One was a high-end litigation boutique and the other was 200-attorney firm that did mostly insurance defense work. Obviously, I wanted the litigation boutique, and the interviews (there were two rounds) went well, but I did not get the job.

I received and accepted a position in the professional liability department of the 200-attorney insurance defense firm in town doing medical malpractice defense. This is similar to insurance defense, but the clients are mostly self-insured, and the cases are often catastrophic, so the stakes are high. The compensation was approximately 120k, but the billable hours were akin to big law (2200). I thought to myself, this is probably the closest I am going to get to biglaw, so I may as well take the job. I did not realize that, notwithstanding the equity partners, the partners bill 2400 hours and make about 180k.

I worked at the firm for about 14 months and really liked the work. But it was somewhat tough to see plaintiff attorneys making millions of dollars doing the same work as me, albeit on the other side. That said, I had no plans to leave until that litigation boutique I mentioned previously contacted me out of the blue. They had a new opening and thought I'd be a good fit, so they wanted me to interview. I applied, interviewed, and received a job offer.

I was now doing general litigation at a litigation boutique! Random, I know. I handled commercial disputes, legal malpractice for biglaw clients, toxic torts, sexual misconduct, and other interesting cases. The firm, which was leanly staffed (40ish attorneys total), gave me a lot of responsibility too. I was basically running the cases that I was assigned to with minimal oversight from partners. The pay was better (150k), and the hours were reasonable (1700, not including pro bono and random firm stuff). I liked the job a lot and was set to stay there for a long time.

Which brings me to late 2020, when a recruiter contacted about a position doing plaintiff-side mass tort and catastrophic personal injury. The firm has a number of varying plaintiff-side practices, not limited to personal injuries, but all among the most successful in the country. We have 75ish attorneys and several offices across the country. Through the recruiter, I applied for and received the job (I do interview well). I now do plaintiff-side mass tort, medical malpractice, toxic tort, and environmental litigation. In many instances, I litigate against firms like Quinn, Sul. & Crom., and other household names. I make over 200k in salary, and bonuses can exceed the salaried amount (we get bonuses whenever cases settle). I work a lot, but I love what I do. I get to travel across the country, and I've even recently appeared on talk radio. Things are going well, and I hope to be promoted within the next couple of years.

Obviously, I could not have predicted where my career would take me, but I think some of what occurred comes down to my willingness to take chances when the right opportunity comes along. I think lawyers, being naturally risk averse, sometimes pass up these opportunities. Thanks for reading, and AMA.

[Anonymous User]

I respect the effort. But pass.

[californiauser]

How much educational debt do you have?

[Antetrust]

Congratulations on your journey!

What are some of the most valuable lessons you learned along the way?

You mentioned a couple of times that you interview well - what exactly do you do that makes you interview well? What do you do to prepare for interviews?

Thanks in advance!

[Lacepiece23]

This topic was originally posted on another board. I was advised to re-post it where users could comment anonymously, and I believe that is the case on this board.

This is the story of how I went from jobless law school grad to partnership track associate at a leading law firm. It's been a very strange ride, but I am happy to share what insight I've gained along the way.

Law School: Its helpful to start with a little bit of background on my legal education. Like many of you, I read TLS prior to starting law school in 2011. Like some of you, I ignored advice to retake the LSAT (162). I ended up attending a school ranked in the bottom half of T1 (60s) without a scholarship. The school was in a secondary market though, and I thought that might help with job prospects. Maybe that was true to an extent, but it wasn't enough to avoid the dismissal start of my career. More on that below.

I worked hard in law school and had a strong first semester. That was enough to gain a coveted 1L summer associate position through a diversity job fair (I'm half-Latino). The summer associate position went well, but the regional firm where I worked did not extend offers to the 1Ls, so I was left to attend OCI with everyone else. Unfortunately, I bombed a class second semester of 1L year and my grades ended up around median -- where I remained throughout my law school career. I did not get a job through OCI, but I found something that paid during the summer -- a small firm with no real prospect of permanent employment. I wrote my way onto a secondary journal before 3L year. Yes, that means I did write-on twice after bombing it the first time around.

My Career: I graduated without a job in 2014, but at least I passed the bar with flying colors. I hand wrote the bar on a whim after being pissed off about my classmates' ability to seemingly type 300 words per minute (Pro Tip: You don't need to type fast to practice law, but it helps for law school). Perhaps by sheer luck, the decision paid off and I did really well on the exam. What is great about acing the bar is that nobody cares.

I had no job, but I was really good at FIFA 14. I also took up Raquetball with another jobless friend. Good times.

I applied to dozens of jobs and, after bar results, finally got two interviews at the same time. The first was a city attorney job doing civil rights defense. The second was at a small firm that did plaintiffs-side Fair Debt Collection Practices Act work. For those of you that do not know, sometimes debt collectors call you when they shouldn't. Imagine, if when they did this, you decided to sue them in Federal Court for 200 dollars. Let me tell you, judges love these cases.

As you've probably guessed based on my demonstrated FDCPA expertise, I got and took the firm job. The pay was okay - 70k - but I actually wanted the city job because it didn't involve suing debt collectors over spam telephone calls. The city job, however, had multiple rounds of interviews and I didn't think I could pass up a sure thing.

I was now a practicing lawyer! I even had an office; never mind that it was actually the foyer to my boss's office - or that next to my desk sat a giant cigar-shop-Indian obtained from the wealth generated by collecting attorney's fees on 10,000 lawsuits seeking 200 dollars in damages. My boss - a less than reasonable man - wanted me to draft and file six complaints a day in federal courts throughout the country. This was in addition to the work lawyers typically do - speak to clients, write motions and responses, conduct discovery, etc. This was a special kind of hell.

I lasted at the job for almost 90 days. I quit after my boss confronted me about talking to my fiancé in the car. Of course, I was telling her how miserable the job was, but he didn't overhear me. He was just pissed that I took a lunch break.

I was now jobless again. For about 30 minutes I contemplated leaving the practice of law altogether. That, or I thought maybe I could open my own firm, which in retrospect I think would not have worked given that I only knew how to litigate FDCPA claims and the market was cornered by wonderful people like my boss.

That was a bad 30 minutes, but now is a good time to tell you that I was very good in law school at one thing - networking. I networked like a mad man in law school because I knew my grades weren't going to get me where I wanted to be. I networked with everyone -- big law partners, academics, small firm attorneys, and literally anyone else who was willing to engage with me. I really got along with one lawyer - an older attorney who owned a small personal injury firm. Because I am fairly ballsy, and because I genuinely liked him, I invited him to my wedding. As I was leaving my firm, he called me to say that he received my invitation; he also asked how work was going. I told him I had just quit, and he offered me a job on the spot.

I was now a personal injury attorney! With me, the firm that I joined had four attorneys. I had to take a pay cut to 55k, but the environment was really good. Some of the cases were too. We had our fair share of seven and eight figure personal injury, civil rights, and medical malpractice claims, but most were admittedly much smaller. For example, it wouldn't be uncommon for us to take a 15k slip-and-fall claim. I got the sense that those types of claims paid the bills and funded the larger cases.

I worked there for a little over 3 years. My salary increased to 70 and 75k, and I also earned referral fees when I brought in business. My total compensation my final year was low six figures.

I still wanted more though, in terms of complexity and compensation. With 3+ years of experience under my belt, I applied two firms and got two interviews. One was a high-end litigation boutique and the other was 200-attorney firm that did mostly insurance defense work. Obviously, I wanted the litigation boutique, and the interviews (there were two rounds) went well, but I did not get the job.

I received and accepted a position in the professional liability department of the 200-attorney insurance defense firm in town doing medical malpractice defense. This is similar to insurance defense, but the clients are mostly self-insured, and the cases are often catastrophic, so the stakes are high. The compensation was approximately 120k, but the billable hours were akin to big law (2200). I thought to myself, this is probably the closest I am going to get to biglaw, so I may as well take the job. I did not realize that, notwithstanding the equity partners, the partners bill 2400 hours and make about 180k.

I worked at the firm for about 14 months and really liked the work. But it was somewhat tough to see plaintiff attorneys making millions of dollars doing the same work as me, albeit on the other side. That said, I had no plans to leave until that litigation boutique I mentioned previously contacted me out of the blue. They had a new opening and thought I'd be a good fit, so they wanted me to interview. I applied, interviewed, and received a job offer.

I was now doing general litigation at a litigation boutique! Random, I know. I handled commercial disputes, legal malpractice for biglaw clients, toxic torts, sexual misconduct, and other interesting cases. The firm, which was leanly staffed (40ish attorneys total), gave me a lot of responsibility too. I was basically running the cases that I was assigned to with minimal oversight from partners. The pay was better (150k), and the hours were reasonable (1700, not including pro bono and random firm stuff). I liked the job a lot and was set to stay there for a long time.

Which brings me to late 2020, when a recruiter contacted about a position doing plaintiff-side mass tort and catastrophic personal injury. The firm has a number of varying plaintiff-side practices, not limited to personal injuries, but all among the most successful in the country. We have 75ish attorneys and several offices across the country. Through the recruiter, I applied for and received the job (I do interview well). I now do plaintiff-side mass tort, medical malpractice, toxic tort, and environmental litigation. In many instances, I litigate against firms like Quinn, Sul. & Crom., and other household names. I make over 200k in salary, and bonuses can exceed the salaried amount (we get bonuses whenever cases settle). I work a lot, but I love what I do. I get to travel across the country, and I've even recently appeared on talk radio. Things are going well, and I hope to be promoted within the next couple of years.

Obviously, I could not have predicted where my career would take me, but I think some of what occurred comes down to my willingness to take chances when the right opportunity comes along. I think lawyers, being naturally risk averse, sometimes pass up these opportunities. Thanks for reading, and AMA.

Good shit. What people don't realize about PI is that yeah, you might make 55k to start. But there is a good chance at 7 figures by age 40 if you play your cards right. A much better chance than Biglaw.

Biglaw, however, pays you a ton up front. But most litigators will never make partner and will end up in Gov, a small firm, or somewhere like that long term making less than you. I'd say you won.

[Anonymous User]

This topic was originally posted on another board. I was advised to re-post it where users could comment anonymously, and I believe that is the case on this board.

This is the story of how I went from jobless law school grad to partnership track associate at a leading law firm. It's been a very strange ride, but I am happy to share what insight I've gained along the way.

Law School: Its helpful to start with a little bit of background on my legal education. Like many of you, I read TLS prior to starting law school in 2011. Like some of you, I ignored advice to retake the LSAT (162). I ended up attending a school ranked in the bottom half of T1 (60s) without a scholarship. The school was in a secondary market though, and I thought that might help with job prospects. Maybe that was true to an extent, but it wasn't enough to avoid the dismissal start of my career. More on that below.

I worked hard in law school and had a strong first semester. That was enough to gain a coveted 1L summer associate position through a diversity job fair (I'm half-Latino). The summer associate position went well, but the regional firm where I worked did not extend offers to the 1Ls, so I was left to attend OCI with everyone else. Unfortunately, I bombed a class second semester of 1L year and my grades ended up around median -- where I remained throughout my law school career. I did not get a job through OCI, but I found something that paid during the summer -- a small firm with no real prospect of permanent employment. I wrote my way onto a secondary journal before 3L year. Yes, that means I did write-on twice after bombing it the first time around.

My Career: I graduated without a job in 2014, but at least I passed the bar with flying colors. I hand wrote the bar on a whim after being pissed off about my classmates' ability to seemingly type 300 words per minute (Pro Tip: You don't need to type fast to practice law, but it helps for law school). Perhaps by sheer luck, the decision paid off and I did really well on the exam. What is great about acing the bar is that nobody cares.

I had no job, but I was really good at FIFA 14. I also took up Raquetball with another jobless friend. Good times.

I applied to dozens of jobs and, after bar results, finally got two interviews at the same time. The first was a city attorney job doing civil rights defense. The second was at a small firm that did plaintiffs-side Fair Debt Collection Practices Act work. For those of you that do not know, sometimes debt collectors call you when they shouldn't. Imagine, if when they did this, you decided to sue them in Federal Court for 200 dollars. Let me tell you, judges love these cases.

As you've probably guessed based on my demonstrated FDCPA expertise, I got and took the firm job. The pay was okay - 70k - but I actually wanted the city job because it didn't involve suing debt collectors over spam telephone calls. The city job, however, had multiple rounds of interviews and I didn't think I could pass up a sure thing.

I was now a practicing lawyer! I even had an office; never mind that it was actually the foyer to my boss's office - or that next to my desk sat a giant cigar-shop-Indian obtained from the wealth generated by collecting attorney's fees on 10,000 lawsuits seeking 200 dollars in damages. My boss - a less than reasonable man - wanted me to draft and file six complaints a day in federal courts throughout the country. This was in addition to the work lawyers typically do - speak to clients, write motions and responses, conduct discovery, etc. This was a special kind of hell.

I lasted at the job for almost 90 days. I quit after my boss confronted me about talking to my fiancé in the car. Of course, I was telling her how miserable the job was, but he didn't overhear me. He was just pissed that I took a lunch break.

I was now jobless again. For about 30 minutes I contemplated leaving the practice of law altogether. That, or I thought maybe I could open my own firm, which in retrospect I think would not have worked given that I only knew how to litigate FDCPA claims and the market was cornered by wonderful people like my boss.

That was a bad 30 minutes, but now is a good time to tell you that I was very good in law school at one thing - networking. I networked like a mad man in law school because I knew my grades weren't going to get me where I wanted to be. I networked with everyone -- big law partners, academics, small firm attorneys, and literally anyone else who was willing to engage with me. I really got along with one lawyer - an older attorney who owned a small personal injury firm. Because I am fairly ballsy, and because I genuinely liked him, I invited him to my wedding. As I was leaving my firm, he called me to say that he received my invitation; he also asked how work was going. I told him I had just quit, and he offered me a job on the spot.

I was now a personal injury attorney! With me, the firm that I joined had four attorneys. I had to take a pay cut to 55k, but the environment was really good. Some of the cases were too. We had our fair share of seven and eight figure personal injury, civil rights, and medical malpractice claims, but most were admittedly much smaller. For example, it wouldn't be uncommon for us to take a 15k slip-and-fall claim. I got the sense that those types of claims paid the bills and funded the larger cases.

I worked there for a little over 3 years. My salary increased to 70 and 75k, and I also earned referral fees when I brought in business. My total compensation my final year was low six figures.

I still wanted more though, in terms of complexity and compensation. With 3+ years of experience under my belt, I applied two firms and got two interviews. One was a high-end litigation boutique and the other was 200-attorney firm that did mostly insurance defense work. Obviously, I wanted the litigation boutique, and the interviews (there were two rounds) went well, but I did not get the job.

I received and accepted a position in the professional liability department of the 200-attorney insurance defense firm in town doing medical malpractice defense. This is similar to insurance defense, but the clients are mostly self-insured, and the cases are often catastrophic, so the stakes are high. The compensation was approximately 120k, but the billable hours were akin to big law (2200). I thought to myself, this is probably the closest I am going to get to biglaw, so I may as well take the job. I did not realize that, notwithstanding the equity partners, the partners bill 2400 hours and make about 180k.

I worked at the firm for about 14 months and really liked the work. But it was somewhat tough to see plaintiff attorneys making millions of dollars doing the same work as me, albeit on the other side. That said, I had no plans to leave until that litigation boutique I mentioned previously contacted me out of the blue. They had a new opening and thought I'd be a good fit, so they wanted me to interview. I applied, interviewed, and received a job offer.

I was now doing general litigation at a litigation boutique! Random, I know. I handled commercial disputes, legal malpractice for biglaw clients, toxic torts, sexual misconduct, and other interesting cases. The firm, which was leanly staffed (40ish attorneys total), gave me a lot of responsibility too. I was basically running the cases that I was assigned to with minimal oversight from partners. The pay was better (150k), and the hours were reasonable (1700, not including pro bono and random firm stuff). I liked the job a lot and was set to stay there for a long time.

Which brings me to late 2020, when a recruiter contacted about a position doing plaintiff-side mass tort and catastrophic personal injury. The firm has a number of varying plaintiff-side practices, not limited to personal injuries, but all among the most successful in the country. We have 75ish attorneys and several offices across the country. Through the recruiter, I applied for and received the job (I do interview well). I now do plaintiff-side mass tort, medical malpractice, toxic tort, and environmental litigation. In many instances, I litigate against firms like Quinn, Sul. & Crom., and other household names. I make over 200k in salary, and bonuses can exceed the salaried amount (we get bonuses whenever cases settle). I work a lot, but I love what I do. I get to travel across the country, and I've even recently appeared on talk radio. Things are going well, and I hope to be promoted within the next couple of years.

Obviously, I could not have predicted where my career would take me, but I think some of what occurred comes down to my willingness to take chances when the right opportunity comes along. I think lawyers, being naturally risk averse, sometimes pass up these opportunities. Thanks for reading, and AMA.

Good shit. What people don't realize about PI is that yeah, you might make 55k to start. But there is a good chance at 7 figures by age 40 if you play your cards right. A much better chance than Biglaw.

Biglaw, however, pays you a ton up front. But most litigators will never make partner and will end up in Gov, a small firm, or somewhere like that long term making less than you. I'd say you won.

I don't know if there's numbers out there on this, but if I had to guess, I'd say the chances of you making 7 figures doing PI law is about the same as you making partner at biglaw. It's under 5% in both cases.

[Anonymous User]

How much educational debt do you have?

A ton - 270k - but at this point I am choosing not to pay it off. Given income driven repayment options, and more recently CoVid, the debt hasn't really affected me at all. I've been able to buy two houses without impact, and with the cost of living in my area being better than most, my salaries have allowed me to live very comfortably. Rather than pay down the debt, I've invested my money and I now have enough to pay it off. I happened to buy bitcoin at a low price so that helped a lot. At this point, I am waiting to see what happens with the student debt repayment pause, because everything still seems to be in flux. That said, I would not recommend anyone attend law school at full price. And I believe that to be true for almost any school -- I've seen many a T14 grad burdened with debt and a mediocre outcome.

[Grandstrategygame]

Congratulations on your journey!

What are some of the most valuable lessons you learned along the way?

You mentioned a couple of times that you interview well - what exactly do you do that makes you interview well? What do you do to prepare for interviews?

Thanks in advance!

I research my interviewers beforehand and talk to people who know them. I try to have answers lined up for the most common "hard" questions, but aside from that I try to remember that an interview should feel like a natural conversation, and also that people generally like to hear themselves speak. The latter point means I am happy to actively listen during the interview.

My favorite question is "what's your biggest weakness?" Many find this question hard, but I've always approached it as a chance address a career goal. For example, in the past I've answered: "Well, I haven't yet first-chaired a complex trial, and I think that's probably to be expected based on my experience level. But at ABC Firm I know I'll have opportunity to learn and get to the point where I can, and that's really one of the reasons I want to be here."

[Grandstrategygame]

This topic was originally posted on another board. I was advised to re-post it where users could comment anonymously, and I believe that is the case on this board.

This is the story of how I went from jobless law school grad to partnership track associate at a leading law firm. It's been a very strange ride, but I am happy to share what insight I've gained along the way.

Law School: Its helpful to start with a little bit of background on my legal education. Like many of you, I read TLS prior to starting law school in 2011. Like some of you, I ignored advice to retake the LSAT (162). I ended up attending a school ranked in the bottom half of T1 (60s) without a scholarship. The school was in a secondary market though, and I thought that might help with job prospects. Maybe that was true to an extent, but it wasn't enough to avoid the dismissal start of my career. More on that below.

I worked hard in law school and had a strong first semester. That was enough to gain a coveted 1L summer associate position through a diversity job fair (I'm half-Latino). The summer associate position went well, but the regional firm where I worked did not extend offers to the 1Ls, so I was left to attend OCI with everyone else. Unfortunately, I bombed a class second semester of 1L year and my grades ended up around median -- where I remained throughout my law school career. I did not get a job through OCI, but I found something that paid during the summer -- a small firm with no real prospect of permanent employment. I wrote my way onto a secondary journal before 3L year. Yes, that means I did write-on twice after bombing it the first time around.

My Career: I graduated without a job in 2014, but at least I passed the bar with flying colors. I hand wrote the bar on a whim after being pissed off about my classmates' ability to seemingly type 300 words per minute (Pro Tip: You don't need to type fast to practice law, but it helps for law school). Perhaps by sheer luck, the decision paid off and I did really well on the exam. What is great about acing the bar is that nobody cares.

I had no job, but I was really good at FIFA 14. I also took up Raquetball with another jobless friend. Good times.

I applied to dozens of jobs and, after bar results, finally got two interviews at the same time. The first was a city attorney job doing civil rights defense. The second was at a small firm that did plaintiffs-side Fair Debt Collection Practices Act work. For those of you that do not know, sometimes debt collectors call you when they shouldn't. Imagine, if when they did this, you decided to sue them in Federal Court for 200 dollars. Let me tell you, judges love these cases.

As you've probably guessed based on my demonstrated FDCPA expertise, I got and took the firm job. The pay was okay - 70k - but I actually wanted the city job because it didn't involve suing debt collectors over spam telephone calls. The city job, however, had multiple rounds of interviews and I didn't think I could pass up a sure thing.

I was now a practicing lawyer! I even had an office; never mind that it was actually the foyer to my boss's office - or that next to my desk sat a giant cigar-shop-Indian obtained from the wealth generated by collecting attorney's fees on 10,000 lawsuits seeking 200 dollars in damages. My boss - a less than reasonable man - wanted me to draft and file six complaints a day in federal courts throughout the country. This was in addition to the work lawyers typically do - speak to clients, write motions and responses, conduct discovery, etc. This was a special kind of hell.

I lasted at the job for almost 90 days. I quit after my boss confronted me about talking to my fiancé in the car. Of course, I was telling her how miserable the job was, but he didn't overhear me. He was just pissed that I took a lunch break.

I was now jobless again. For about 30 minutes I contemplated leaving the practice of law altogether. That, or I thought maybe I could open my own firm, which in retrospect I think would not have worked given that I only knew how to litigate FDCPA claims and the market was cornered by wonderful people like my boss.

That was a bad 30 minutes, but now is a good time to tell you that I was very good in law school at one thing - networking. I networked like a mad man in law school because I knew my grades weren't going to get me where I wanted to be. I networked with everyone -- big law partners, academics, small firm attorneys, and literally anyone else who was willing to engage with me. I really got along with one lawyer - an older attorney who owned a small personal injury firm. Because I am fairly ballsy, and because I genuinely liked him, I invited him to my wedding. As I was leaving my firm, he called me to say that he received my invitation; he also asked how work was going. I told him I had just quit, and he offered me a job on the spot.

I was now a personal injury attorney! With me, the firm that I joined had four attorneys. I had to take a pay cut to 55k, but the environment was really good. Some of the cases were too. We had our fair share of seven and eight figure personal injury, civil rights, and medical malpractice claims, but most were admittedly much smaller. For example, it wouldn't be uncommon for us to take a 15k slip-and-fall claim. I got the sense that those types of claims paid the bills and funded the larger cases.

I worked there for a little over 3 years. My salary increased to 70 and 75k, and I also earned referral fees when I brought in business. My total compensation my final year was low six figures.

I still wanted more though, in terms of complexity and compensation. With 3+ years of experience under my belt, I applied two firms and got two interviews. One was a high-end litigation boutique and the other was 200-attorney firm that did mostly insurance defense work. Obviously, I wanted the litigation boutique, and the interviews (there were two rounds) went well, but I did not get the job.

I received and accepted a position in the professional liability department of the 200-attorney insurance defense firm in town doing medical malpractice defense. This is similar to insurance defense, but the clients are mostly self-insured, and the cases are often catastrophic, so the stakes are high. The compensation was approximately 120k, but the billable hours were akin to big law (2200). I thought to myself, this is probably the closest I am going to get to biglaw, so I may as well take the job. I did not realize that, notwithstanding the equity partners, the partners bill 2400 hours and make about 180k.

I worked at the firm for about 14 months and really liked the work. But it was somewhat tough to see plaintiff attorneys making millions of dollars doing the same work as me, albeit on the other side. That said, I had no plans to leave until that litigation boutique I mentioned previously contacted me out of the blue. They had a new opening and thought I'd be a good fit, so they wanted me to interview. I applied, interviewed, and received a job offer.

I was now doing general litigation at a litigation boutique! Random, I know. I handled commercial disputes, legal malpractice for biglaw clients, toxic torts, sexual misconduct, and other interesting cases. The firm, which was leanly staffed (40ish attorneys total), gave me a lot of responsibility too. I was basically running the cases that I was assigned to with minimal oversight from partners. The pay was better (150k), and the hours were reasonable (1700, not including pro bono and random firm stuff). I liked the job a lot and was set to stay there for a long time.

Which brings me to late 2020, when a recruiter contacted about a position doing plaintiff-side mass tort and catastrophic personal injury. The firm has a number of varying plaintiff-side practices, not limited to personal injuries, but all among the most successful in the country. We have 75ish attorneys and several offices across the country. Through the recruiter, I applied for and received the job (I do interview well). I now do plaintiff-side mass tort, medical malpractice, toxic tort, and environmental litigation. In many instances, I litigate against firms like Quinn, Sul. & Crom., and other household names. I make over 200k in salary, and bonuses can exceed the salaried amount (we get bonuses whenever cases settle). I work a lot, but I love what I do. I get to travel across the country, and I've even recently appeared on talk radio. Things are going well, and I hope to be promoted within the next couple of years.

Obviously, I could not have predicted where my career would take me, but I think some of what occurred comes down to my willingness to take chances when the right opportunity comes along. I think lawyers, being naturally risk averse, sometimes pass up these opportunities. Thanks for reading, and AMA.

Good shit. What people don't realize about PI is that yeah, you might make 55k to start. But there is a good chance at 7 figures by age 40 if you play your cards right. A much better chance than Biglaw.

Biglaw, however, pays you a ton up front. But most litigators will never make partner and will end up in Gov, a small firm, or somewhere like that long term making less than you. I'd say you won.

I don't know if there's numbers out there on this, but if I had to guess, I'd say the chances of you making 7 figures doing PI law is about the same as you making partner at biglaw. It's under 5% in both cases.

That's probably true, but anecdotally most personally injury partners that I know seem to make more than their big law counterparts. Certainly, at my firm most partners make over a million dollars, although we are not primarily personal injury lawyers (I happen to be). We do a lot of plaintiffs-side securities litigation.

[Antetrust]

Congratulations on your journey!

What are some of the most valuable lessons you learned along the way?

You mentioned a couple of times that you interview well - what exactly do you do that makes you interview well? What do you do to prepare for interviews?

Thanks in advance!

I research my interviewers beforehand and talk to people who know them. I try to have answers lined up for the most common "hard" questions, but aside from that I try to remember that an interview should feel like a natural conversation, and also that people generally like to hear themselves speak. The latter point means I am happy to actively listen during the interview.

My favorite question is "what's your biggest weakness?" Many find this question hard, but I've always approached it as a chance address a career goal. For example, in the past I've answered: "Well, I haven't yet first-chaired a complex trial, and I think that's probably to be expected based on my experience level. But at ABC Firm I know I'll have opportunity to learn and get to the point where I can, and that's really one of the reasons I want to be here."

Excellent advice, thank you!

[Grandstrategygame]

OP, I'm not sure why you would think you're interesting or important enough to be treated like a celebrity. If you just wanted to make friends, this is one of the worst possible ways to get them. Also, apropos of nothing, have you seen this video on Cluster B personality types? It's only 11 minutes long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWZ6pIDViZw

Sometimes practicing lawyers answer questions on these boards. I thought I would do the same, and also share my career path because its different (not better or worse) than most I see here. I enjoy talking with law students and recent graduates, and generally believe attorneys should do more of that. Lastly, as someone who once browsed the Vale of Tears, I shared my story in case someone found optimism in it. I was really down when I graduated without a job, and ultimately could not have been happier with the way things turned out.

[nealric]

This topic was originally posted on another board. I was advised to re-post it where users could comment anonymously, and I believe that is the case on this board.

This is the story of how I went from jobless law school grad to partnership track associate at a leading law firm. It's been a very strange ride, but I am happy to share what insight I've gained along the way.

Law School: Its helpful to start with a little bit of background on my legal education. Like many of you, I read TLS prior to starting law school in 2011. Like some of you, I ignored advice to retake the LSAT (162). I ended up attending a school ranked in the bottom half of T1 (60s) without a scholarship. The school was in a secondary market though, and I thought that might help with job prospects. Maybe that was true to an extent, but it wasn't enough to avoid the dismissal start of my career. More on that below.

I worked hard in law school and had a strong first semester. That was enough to gain a coveted 1L summer associate position through a diversity job fair (I'm half-Latino). The summer associate position went well, but the regional firm where I worked did not extend offers to the 1Ls, so I was left to attend OCI with everyone else. Unfortunately, I bombed a class second semester of 1L year and my grades ended up around median -- where I remained throughout my law school career. I did not get a job through OCI, but I found something that paid during the summer -- a small firm with no real prospect of permanent employment. I wrote my way onto a secondary journal before 3L year. Yes, that means I did write-on twice after bombing it the first time around.

My Career: I graduated without a job in 2014, but at least I passed the bar with flying colors. I hand wrote the bar on a whim after being pissed off about my classmates' ability to seemingly type 300 words per minute (Pro Tip: You don't need to type fast to practice law, but it helps for law school). Perhaps by sheer luck, the decision paid off and I did really well on the exam. What is great about acing the bar is that nobody cares.

I had no job, but I was really good at FIFA 14. I also took up Raquetball with another jobless friend. Good times.

I applied to dozens of jobs and, after bar results, finally got two interviews at the same time. The first was a city attorney job doing civil rights defense. The second was at a small firm that did plaintiffs-side Fair Debt Collection Practices Act work. For those of you that do not know, sometimes debt collectors call you when they shouldn't. Imagine, if when they did this, you decided to sue them in Federal Court for 200 dollars. Let me tell you, judges love these cases.

As you've probably guessed based on my demonstrated FDCPA expertise, I got and took the firm job. The pay was okay - 70k - but I actually wanted the city job because it didn't involve suing debt collectors over spam telephone calls. The city job, however, had multiple rounds of interviews and I didn't think I could pass up a sure thing.

I was now a practicing lawyer! I even had an office; never mind that it was actually the foyer to my boss's office - or that next to my desk sat a giant cigar-shop-Indian obtained from the wealth generated by collecting attorney's fees on 10,000 lawsuits seeking 200 dollars in damages. My boss - a less than reasonable man - wanted me to draft and file six complaints a day in federal courts throughout the country. This was in addition to the work lawyers typically do - speak to clients, write motions and responses, conduct discovery, etc. This was a special kind of hell.

I lasted at the job for almost 90 days. I quit after my boss confronted me about talking to my fiancé in the car. Of course, I was telling her how miserable the job was, but he didn't overhear me. He was just pissed that I took a lunch break.

I was now jobless again. For about 30 minutes I contemplated leaving the practice of law altogether. That, or I thought maybe I could open my own firm, which in retrospect I think would not have worked given that I only knew how to litigate FDCPA claims and the market was cornered by wonderful people like my boss.

That was a bad 30 minutes, but now is a good time to tell you that I was very good in law school at one thing - networking. I networked like a mad man in law school because I knew my grades weren't going to get me where I wanted to be. I networked with everyone -- big law partners, academics, small firm attorneys, and literally anyone else who was willing to engage with me. I really got along with one lawyer - an older attorney who owned a small personal injury firm. Because I am fairly ballsy, and because I genuinely liked him, I invited him to my wedding. As I was leaving my firm, he called me to say that he received my invitation; he also asked how work was going. I told him I had just quit, and he offered me a job on the spot.

I was now a personal injury attorney! With me, the firm that I joined had four attorneys. I had to take a pay cut to 55k, but the environment was really good. Some of the cases were too. We had our fair share of seven and eight figure personal injury, civil rights, and medical malpractice claims, but most were admittedly much smaller. For example, it wouldn't be uncommon for us to take a 15k slip-and-fall claim. I got the sense that those types of claims paid the bills and funded the larger cases.

I worked there for a little over 3 years. My salary increased to 70 and 75k, and I also earned referral fees when I brought in business. My total compensation my final year was low six figures.

I still wanted more though, in terms of complexity and compensation. With 3+ years of experience under my belt, I applied two firms and got two interviews. One was a high-end litigation boutique and the other was 200-attorney firm that did mostly insurance defense work. Obviously, I wanted the litigation boutique, and the interviews (there were two rounds) went well, but I did not get the job.

I received and accepted a position in the professional liability department of the 200-attorney insurance defense firm in town doing medical malpractice defense. This is similar to insurance defense, but the clients are mostly self-insured, and the cases are often catastrophic, so the stakes are high. The compensation was approximately 120k, but the billable hours were akin to big law (2200). I thought to myself, this is probably the closest I am going to get to biglaw, so I may as well take the job. I did not realize that, notwithstanding the equity partners, the partners bill 2400 hours and make about 180k.

I worked at the firm for about 14 months and really liked the work. But it was somewhat tough to see plaintiff attorneys making millions of dollars doing the same work as me, albeit on the other side. That said, I had no plans to leave until that litigation boutique I mentioned previously contacted me out of the blue. They had a new opening and thought I'd be a good fit, so they wanted me to interview. I applied, interviewed, and received a job offer.

I was now doing general litigation at a litigation boutique! Random, I know. I handled commercial disputes, legal malpractice for biglaw clients, toxic torts, sexual misconduct, and other interesting cases. The firm, which was leanly staffed (40ish attorneys total), gave me a lot of responsibility too. I was basically running the cases that I was assigned to with minimal oversight from partners. The pay was better (150k), and the hours were reasonable (1700, not including pro bono and random firm stuff). I liked the job a lot and was set to stay there for a long time.

Which brings me to late 2020, when a recruiter contacted about a position doing plaintiff-side mass tort and catastrophic personal injury. The firm has a number of varying plaintiff-side practices, not limited to personal injuries, but all among the most successful in the country. We have 75ish attorneys and several offices across the country. Through the recruiter, I applied for and received the job (I do interview well). I now do plaintiff-side mass tort, medical malpractice, toxic tort, and environmental litigation. In many instances, I litigate against firms like Quinn, Sul. & Crom., and other household names. I make over 200k in salary, and bonuses can exceed the salaried amount (we get bonuses whenever cases settle). I work a lot, but I love what I do. I get to travel across the country, and I've even recently appeared on talk radio. Things are going well, and I hope to be promoted within the next couple of years.

Obviously, I could not have predicted where my career would take me, but I think some of what occurred comes down to my willingness to take chances when the right opportunity comes along. I think lawyers, being naturally risk averse, sometimes pass up these opportunities. Thanks for reading, and AMA.

Good shit. What people don't realize about PI is that yeah, you might make 55k to start. But there is a good chance at 7 figures by age 40 if you play your cards right. A much better chance than Biglaw.

Biglaw, however, pays you a ton up front. But most litigators will never make partner and will end up in Gov, a small firm, or somewhere like that long term making less than you. I'd say you won.

I don't know if there's numbers out there on this, but if I had to guess, I'd say the chances of you making 7 figures doing PI law is about the same as you making partner at biglaw. It's under 5% in both cases.

Probably so, but I'd say your chances as a first year associate of becoming a 7 figure personal injury lawyer by year 15 are probably just as good starting in biglaw (if not better) than if you started doing low-end PI. You can make decent money by sheer volume in PI, but the money starts getting really huge as cases scale in complexity such that the legion of low-end PI lawyers are effectively shut out due to lack of experience/capacity on more complex litigation matters.

I know people who have made the switch from biglaw to high-end PI as a mid to senior associate. You may come from behind on trial skills/experience, but a lot of low-end PI shops are settlement mills anyways and don't provide much substantive trial experience.

[Grandstrategygame]

Probably so, but I'd say your chances as a first year associate of becoming a 7 figure personal injury lawyer by year 15 are probably just as good starting in biglaw (if not better) than if you started doing low-end PI. You can make decent money by sheer volume in PI, but the money starts getting really huge as cases scale in complexity such that the legion of low-end PI lawyers are effectively shut out due to lack of experience/capacity on more complex litigation matters.

I know people who have made the switch from biglaw to high-end PI as a mid to senior associate. You may come from behind on trial skills/experience, but a lot of low-end PI shops are settlement mills anyways and don't provide much substantive trial experience.

I agree that it's easier to transition to high-end personal injury work coming from Biglaw or, perhaps, high-end insurance defense (med mal, for example). That said, even personal injury partners that work on low-value cases still tend to make great money, and they often have a more relaxed schedule. In my opinion, the associate positions at their firms are often less desirable only because the career path is unstable. You may end up at a firm that has no intention of ever making you a partner, and sometimes it's tough to know that in advance. Exit options are also quite limited. That said, if you end up at one of these firms, I think you can do well if you identify realistic exit options. I took several small steps up, as opposed to aiming for a moonshot right away.

Relatedly, once I had some experience under my belt, I did seriously consider starting my own firm. The issue is that, in any city, marketing will cost a ton of money, so most will need referral sources to get cases. The same is true for working up a case. The costs in my catastrophic PI cases easily stretch into six figure territory, and they are absolutely necessary. I was looking over a case budget recently and realized that depositions - alone - cost 95k. So, you need to have very large bankroll to take on the great cases. Most smaller PI firms, despite having highly capable lawyers in many instances, simply refer these cases out to the major players in a given town.