Sullivan & Cromwell or WilmerHale (both NYC)? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm deciding between Sullivan & Cromwell (NYC) and WilmerHale (NYC). I'm interested in lit/white collar/investigations. I got a better vibe from Wilmer, but wondering if S&C is significantly more prestigious (i.e., will lead to better exit opportunities or more interesting work). Any thoughts? Thank you!

[Anonymous User]

Go to Wilmer. As far as litigation is concerned, they are equally "prestigious" in the New York biglaw scene. At my CLS/NYU, Wilmer NYC was actually more selective than S&C. Most people I knew with 3.7s or higher got offers at S&C, whereas the same was not true with respect to Wilmer. Wilmer NYC also has a reputation of being less of a sweatshop and more "academic".

[Anonymous User]

I personally would choose Wilmer just given the reputations of the two firms' cultures, but I think you can't go wrong; both are very strong in your areas of interest.

[Anonymous User]

I'm deciding between Sullivan & Cromwell (NYC) and WilmerHale (NYC). I'm interested in lit/white collar/investigations. I got a better vibe from Wilmer, but wondering if S&C is significantly more prestigious (i.e., will lead to better exit opportunities or more interesting work). Any thoughts? Thank you!

In terms of prestige, they're the same. For white collar/investigations, they're the same. If you got a better vibe from Wilmer, go to Wilmer. I think I would only say to do something else if you weren't sure you were interested in lit; if you think you might want to try more corporate work, this probably flips to S&C given breadth.

[Anonymous User]

Just looking at Chambers

S&C is better at every area of litigation to Wilmer NY the only where it’s close is white collar and even there Sullivan is better

[Anonymous User]

I was choosing between these two firms, though I was interested in a non-NY WH office. FWIW I thought the culture for both firms was somewhat similar as a 2L, but since then I learned that's 100% not true. While both are somewhat more academic than their peer firms (which is what I think I was latching onto), WH has a uniquely collegial/anti-hierarchical culture that's hard to find elsewhere. I'm really glad I chose WH. All my friends at S&C have said the opposite (and left). Most of their complaints are generic biglaw-ish type stuff, but I don't hear nearly as much of that at WH. If you're vibing WH too I would go with that.

Sure, S&C has more preftige outside of lit, but that's not really going to make a difference for career outcomes. And any unquantifiable bump for the S&C name is much harder to justify as compared with whether you'll actually like the people you'll work with.

[Anonymous User]

Sorry but in NYC, S&C lit >> Wilmer lit

[Anonymous User]

Sorry but in NYC, S&C lit >> Wilmer lit

This is not really true anymore, especially in white collar.

[Anonymous User]

Sorry but in NYC, S&C lit >> Wilmer lit

This is not really true anymore, especially in white collar.

All we have is chambers and there S&c is band one and wilmer is band two so seems to still be the case

[Anonymous User]

Sorry but in NYC, S&C lit >> Wilmer lit

This is not really true anymore, especially in white collar.

All we have is chambers and there S&c is band one and wilmer is band two so seems to still be the case

Also, did I say white collar only? I said lit in general (including white collar). OP said lit, white collar, etc. I don’t know what you are basing your opinion on, but S&C is one of the top NYC lit firms. Wilmer is not. Just observing a fact here.

[Anonymous User]

Chiming in to say that S&C has a uniquely intolerable culture, particularly in NYC, and suits people who either are quite shy/ lack social skills/ abrasively academic to put it generously. On paper, they pull strong classes only because they take the above median leftovers that peer (and less prestigious) firms reject for cultural/fit reasons. Please ditch the toxic island of misfit toys known as S&C and its crusty NYC office for what is a peer firm. It'll be better for your career as you'll be able to stomach big law longer. Congrats on both offers by the way!

[Anonymous User]

Chiming in to say that S&C has a uniquely intolerable culture, particularly in NYC, and suits people who either are quite shy/ lack social skills/ abrasively academic to put it generously. On paper, they pull strong classes only because they take the above median leftovers that peer (and less prestigious) firms reject for cultural/fit reasons. Please ditch the toxic island of misfit toys known as S&C and its crusty NYC office for what is a peer firm. It'll be better for your career as you'll be able to stomach big law longer. Congrats on both offers by the way!

Damn did you not get an offer or something, all I know is that NYU the average offeree is above a 3.6 which is in the top 20% of the class so they must be doing something right

[Anonymous User]

Chiming in to say that S&C has a uniquely intolerable culture, particularly in NYC, and suits people who either are quite shy/ lack social skills/ abrasively academic to put it generously. On paper, they pull strong classes only because they take the above median leftovers that peer (and less prestigious) firms reject for cultural/fit reasons. Please ditch the toxic island of misfit toys known as S&C and its crusty NYC office for what is a peer firm. It'll be better for your career as you'll be able to stomach big law longer. Congrats on both offers by the way!

Clearly a 3L who’s going to Wilmer.

[Anonymous User]

Chiming in to say that S&C has a uniquely intolerable culture, particularly in NYC, and suits people who either are quite shy/ lack social skills/ abrasively academic to put it generously. On paper, they pull strong classes only because they take the above median leftovers that peer (and less prestigious) firms reject for cultural/fit reasons. Please ditch the toxic island of misfit toys known as S&C and its crusty NYC office for what is a peer firm. It'll be better for your career as you'll be able to stomach big law longer. Congrats on both offers by the way!

This is a nuts take lol. It's just a big law firm that like any has great practice areas and some that are less stellar. White collar happens to be a strong suit of its. There is no firm uniting "island of misfit toys" a-social culture for the same reason that none of these firms have uniting cultures. S&C's office is 650 attorneys, and that is simply too many people for there to be such a thing. This reads like someone with a personal bone to pick lol

[Anonymous User]

Chiming in to say that S&C has a uniquely intolerable culture, particularly in NYC, and suits people who either are quite shy/ lack social skills/ abrasively academic to put it generously. On paper, they pull strong classes only because they take the above median leftovers that peer (and less prestigious) firms reject for cultural/fit reasons. Please ditch the toxic island of misfit toys known as S&C and its crusty NYC office for what is a peer firm. It'll be better for your career as you'll be able to stomach big law longer. Congrats on both offers by the way!

This is a nuts take lol. It's just a big law firm that like any has great practice areas and some that are less stellar. White collar happens to be a strong suit of its. There is no firm uniting "island of misfit toys" a-social culture for the same reason that none of these firms have uniting cultures. S&C's office is 650 attorneys, and that is simply too many people for there to be such a thing. This reads like someone with a personal bone to pick lol

Right? You can say you didn't vibe with S&C without going this far.

[Anonymous User]

Chiming in to say that S&C has a uniquely intolerable culture, particularly in NYC, and suits people who either are quite shy/ lack social skills/ abrasively academic to put it generously. On paper, they pull strong classes only because they take the above median leftovers that peer (and less prestigious) firms reject for cultural/fit reasons. Please ditch the toxic island of misfit toys known as S&C and its crusty NYC office for what is a peer firm. It'll be better for your career as you'll be able to stomach big law longer. Congrats on both offers by the way!

This is a nuts take lol. It's just a big law firm that like any has great practice areas and some that are less stellar. White collar happens to be a strong suit of its. There is no firm uniting "island of misfit toys" a-social culture for the same reason that none of these firms have uniting cultures. S&C's office is 650 attorneys, and that is simply too many people for there to be such a thing. This reads like someone with a personal bone to pick lol

Right? You can say you didn't vibe with S&C without going this far.

The take may be extreme but I think it's true that Wilmer litigation associates are generally happier and more well-rounded people than their counterparts at S&C. At least that's the consensus among the New York biglaw circles I run in.

[Wild Card]

when I was doing OCI back in 10s, WIlmer NY was thought of as a random local IP litigation firm that was acquired by Wilmer

whereas sullcrom was and always will be a global powerhouse based in NY

I mean, if you want prestige, go to WIlmer DC, not WIlmer NY--you're not fooling anyone

It's kind of like Covington NY--OK?

[Anonymous User]

Chiming in to say that S&C has a uniquely intolerable culture, particularly in NYC, and suits people who either are quite shy/ lack social skills/ abrasively academic to put it generously. On paper, they pull strong classes only because they take the above median leftovers that peer (and less prestigious) firms reject for cultural/fit reasons. Please ditch the toxic island of misfit toys known as S&C and its crusty NYC office for what is a peer firm. It'll be better for your career as you'll be able to stomach big law longer. Congrats on both offers by the way!

Clearly a 3L who’s going to Wilmer.

I'm not at either of these firms and did not interview with any of these firms when I was doing OCI. Have absolutely 0 grudges or sentimental attachments to either of these firms. I just remember this was more or less the take on S&C in my year at HYS. And if you took a look at the people in the year above and below me who went to S&C, it was a very distinct type of person... not individually toxic, but you add the white-shoe stuffiness/ old-schoolness of the office, created a toxic environment. 2 people in my class who spent their 2L summers (one NY, the other DC) are not going back for this reason (one is going to their "less prestigious" 1L firm, the other did some sort of networking into a boutique to avoid going back. Everything I've heard while practicing (from laterals and word on the street) matches the knock on S&C when I was going through it.

But look I have no direct experience, so take this as but one data point.

[Anonymous User]

Chiming in to say that S&C has a uniquely intolerable culture, particularly in NYC, and suits people who either are quite shy/ lack social skills/ abrasively academic to put it generously. On paper, they pull strong classes only because they take the above median leftovers that peer (and less prestigious) firms reject for cultural/fit reasons. Please ditch the toxic island of misfit toys known as S&C and its crusty NYC office for what is a peer firm. It'll be better for your career as you'll be able to stomach big law longer. Congrats on both offers by the way!

Clearly a 3L who’s going to Wilmer.

I'm not at either of these firms and did not interview with any of these firms when I was doing OCI. Have absolutely 0 grudges or sentimental attachments to either of these firms. I just remember this was more or less the take on S&C in my year at HYS. And if you took a look at the people in the year above and below me who went to S&C, it was a very distinct type of person... not individually toxic, but you add the white-shoe stuffiness/ old-schoolness of the office, created a toxic environment. 2 people in my class who spent their 2L summers (one NY, the other DC) are not going back for this reason (one is going to their "less prestigious" 1L firm, the other did some sort of networking into a boutique to avoid going back. Everything I've heard while practicing (from laterals and word on the street) matches the knock on S&C when I was going through it.

But look I have no direct experience, so take this as but one data point.

Woah there, didn't know this person went to HYS, I've heard their extremely anecdotal advice phrased as personal experience is almost always 100% accurate

[ExpOriental]

Both firms are filled with slackjawed morons.

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