Katten (Chicago) vs Clifford Chance (NYC) Forum

[Anonymous User]

For someone interested in transactional, but not sure exactly what specific practice group/not sure one way or the other whether I want to do cross-border, what would you suggest? What should I be considering in deciding between these two spots?

My only concern re: CC is that they seem to be international focused with not a lot of domestic deals which I fear would be bad in an economic downturn. On the other hand, Katten seems prone to a possible bad downturn as well considering their relatively low revenue.

[Sackboy]

This post is filled with a whole lot of BLEH.

Cross border work is terrible. You don't want to do it unless you're a psycho. Early AM calls with Hong Kong are not sexy. Quit that shit immediately. The dream should be to work on a deal team in one time zone for clients who want to do strategic M&A on reasonable timelines.

Ask yourself where you prefer to live, Chicago or NYC? Pick your firm based off that. You'll take home significantly more money in Chicago but you won't get the culture and fine Italian balet or whatever that NYers froth about. Determine what matters to you.

Don't try reading the crystal ball regarding which firm will survive a downturn better. You don't know, and nobody else here does either. Also, revenue is a bad metric. By that measure, Wachtell is more likely prone to an economic downturn than DLA Piper.

[Anonymous User]

.

[existentialcrisis]

This post is filled with a whole lot of BLEH.

Cross border work is terrible. You don't want to do it unless you're a psycho. Early AM calls with Hong Kong are not sexy. Quit that shit immediately. The dream should be to work on a deal team in one time zone for clients who want to do strategic M&A on reasonable timelines.

Ask yourself where you prefer to live, Chicago or NYC? Pick your firm based off that. You'll take home significantly more money in Chicago but you won't get the culture and fine Italian balet or whatever that NYers froth about. Determine what matters to you.

Don't try reading the crystal ball regarding which firm will survive a downturn better. You don't know, and nobody else here does either. Also, revenue is a bad metric. By that measure, Wachtell is more likely prone to an economic downturn than DLA Piper.

Pretty much all of this.

You definitely don’t want to do cross border.

Pick based on what city you’d rather be in.

[Anonymous User]

OP here - thanks for the feedback so far. A poster had said that CC consistently gives out cold offers but their post has been edited to remove that - does anyone know if that is true?

[Anonymous User]

OP here - thanks for the feedback so far. A poster had said that CC consistently gives out cold offers but their post has been edited to remove that - does anyone know if that is true?

It's more common than people assume

[Anonymous User]

The only thing that matters here is whether you'd rather be in Chicago or NY. That obliterates any substantive differences between, really, any firms, outside of WLRK and similar.

Echo everyone saying that you do not, in fact, want to do cross-border deals. There is nothing sexy or exciting about them. They are M&A but worse. Exactly zero upside. People used to anticipate extra international travel from it, but (a) international travel for work SUCKS and (b) that's gone WAY down since COVID and I doubt it's ever coming back, it's just ridiculously cost inefficient since international travel is the one remaining place where firms insist on treating their lawyers humanely re fee reimbursement for non-shit seats.

[LBJ's Hair]

Doing two cross-border deals right now, will add to the chorus of people telling you that you do not want to do them. The time-zone differences suck, local counsel is often incompetent, and 'complexity' added is not 'interesting,' it's like 'Luxembourg folks want to add a perfection provision but they're OOO in the month of August, can we just copy what they did in the other doc or no'

0% I travel for them (and wouldn't want to)

[Anonymous User]

Doing two cross-border deals right now, will add to the chorus of people telling you that you do not want to do them. The time-zone differences suck, local counsel is often incompetent, and 'complexity' added is not 'interesting,' it's like 'Luxembourg folks want to add a perfection provision but they're OOO in the month of August, can we just copy what they did in the other doc or no'

0% I travel for them (and wouldn't want to)

I felt this in my bones. I guess we Americans are the psychos here for working 12 months a year. But that doesn't help me when I need to close in two weeks and can't reach anyone.

Also wtf is an apostile and why is a notary more important than a lawyer. Can't you just be normal and collect sig pages.

[Anonymous User]

To OP's question, these are both acceptable options but they are very different from each other. Where do you want to live? CC is by far a more prestigious firm, but prestige shouldn't outweigh location and quality of life.

[Anonymous User]

To OP's question, these are both acceptable options but they are very different from each other. Where do you want to live? CC is by far a more prestigious firm, but prestige shouldn't outweigh location and quality of life.

cc is not “far more prestigious” than Katten.

carry on

[Anonymous User]

To OP's question, these are both acceptable options but they are very different from each other. Where do you want to live? CC is by far a more prestigious firm, but prestige shouldn't outweigh location and quality of life.

cc is not “far more prestigious” than Katten.

carry on

If anything CC is less respected in NYC than Katten in Chi. Either way, pretty mid options in both markets.

[Anonymous User]

To OP's question, these are both acceptable options but they are very different from each other. Where do you want to live? CC is by far a more prestigious firm, but prestige shouldn't outweigh location and quality of life.

cc is not “far more prestigious” than Katten.

carry on

If anything CC is less respected in NYC than Katten in Chi. Either way, pretty mid options in both markets.

Wow, didn't know that was possible.