No Hours Target Market Bonus vs Hours Target Above Market Bonus Forum

[lolnopedude]

Hi everyone,

I'm deciding between firms, and I was curious to know whether it's more beneficial to go with a firm with a billable hours requirement (~1,800-2,000) to reach the market bonus plus some multiplier for going above the requirement, or to go with a firm that has no billable hours requirement and pays a flat market bonus.

Both are V20 firms in New York, and I'm interested in corporate practice. I realize that no requirement doesn't mean I can slack off, but I'm worried about missing the hours requirement as a junior associate.

[4LTsPointingNorth]

It's a data point that really depends on you, your risk tolerance level and how much you care about comparing your compensation against that of your peers.

How do you feel about a scenario where you work 25% more billable hours than some of your peers in a given year in which they get paid just as much as you do despite having had a significantly easier year? How do you feel about the inverse scenario?

Are you a worrier/anxious person? If so, is never having to worry about meeting a billable hours target a meaningful draw for you? This is particularly relevant in years like 2020 (global pause on all sorts of work streams due to the onset of COVID early in the calendar year, making the feasibility of meeting hours impossible to judge for the entirety of the year for many people) or this year (in which we are in the midst of a meaningful market-wide slowdown in transactional work).

Remember though that this consideration is totally irrelevant in years like last year where everyone worked insane hours and some people got compensated materially more than others (particularly at the midlevel/senior associate ranks where bonuses become a higher percentage of total comp) due to some firms offering bonus multipliers for the sort of insane hours that were common for associates industry-wide.

[Anonymous User]

You should also consider parental leave. My V25 gives so-so kickers for high hours/good performance that I've hit every year (mostly due to insano hours/a masochistic work ethic), but I'm about to go on parental leave next year, so my 2023 bonus will be prorated down by ~1/3. To be sure, though I'll lose out on ~$40k, I've around that in some years due to hours/performance, so I'll net positive on this. If you don't think you're going to be in high hours territory but you will take at least one leave, you'll be better off with full bonus during leave and without the extra bonuses for high years.

[Anonymous User]

You need to be careful to make sure that the firm with a “no target” is actually a “no target” place and not either of the following:

a) It truly is “no target” and hypothetically you’d get market w/ 1,600 hours but the partners never sweat this since in reality it’s a terrible sweatshop and you’ll be billing 2,400 hours every year.

b) It’s “no target” except an invisible target actually exists (around 2,000 usually) and if you’re not pacing for that you’ll get coached during the year and if you don’t hit it it’ll be held against you, over time, in reviews.

Both situations exist. Lawyers (partners) in general are not chill which is one of the reasons people argue *for* a target because at least it’s transparent and the firm won’t play games; a firm with a target also sort of implies that people need to be encouraged to reach that level of billing and so it may be less of a sweatshop vs. the “no target bro [but we all bill 2,400 anyway]” places.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

You need to be careful to make sure that the firm with a “no target” is actually a “no target” place and not either of the following:

a) It truly is “no target” and hypothetically you’d get market w/ 1,600 hours but the partners never sweat this since in reality it’s a terrible sweatshop and you’ll be billing 2,400 hours every year.

b) It’s “no target” except an invisible target actually exists (around 2,000 usually) and if you’re not pacing for that you’ll get coached during the year and if you don’t hit it it’ll be held against you, over time, in reviews.

Both situations exist. Lawyers (partners) in general are not chill which is one of the reasons people argue *for* a target because at least it’s transparent and the firm won’t play games; a firm with a target also sort of implies that people need to be encouraged to reach that level of billing and so it may be less of a sweatshop vs. the “no target bro [but we all bill 2,400 anyway]” places.

All the ones that are not A are eventually B, with the caveats that one down year through no fault of your own is *generally* not a job danger and that I know of some people (usually more specialists) who get by long-term with 1700-1800. But yeah, at those firms it’s more likely to be a sign you’re not well-liked (or are otherwise turning down way too much work).

There’s only like 15 no-minimum firms left, so the advice around them has gotten more and more specific.

[Anonymous User]

I dunno why this topic often comes down to arguments like even if you go to a no to target firm, (1) you will end up working more and/or (2) even if you don't and get guaranteed bonus, you will be shown out the door soon. I think this debate is probably the most relevant for mid level laterals who are hoping to ride out the biglaw train for a few more years. For juniors, bonus amounts just aren't huge enough to move the needle. But for these mid levels, bonuses are a big part of the compensation and it will be material even if you miss out on bonus just one year (i.e., like this year).

[Anonymous User]

There's conflicting information out there about making hours or not. If you're consistently under 1800 that's probably not great but then you hear from specialists or just random ppl who lasted 5 years doing that by being good. If the bonus target is 2000 or so, that can be tough to hit every year. Firm will not fire you for "only" billing 1900.

Also, I disagree that the money doesn't matter to juniors. If anything, it matters more. Another 20-30k is real money, and you're not rich yet.