Are quality of life differences between firms substantial enough to outweigh work quality/opportunities? Forum

[haldren2198]

I'm not going to name specific firms because I'm interested in general opinions instead of specific feedback on firms. Also because I'm not anon.


I have an offer from a major firm that's Chambers Band 1 in the market I want to work in, is headquartered there, and specializes in the practice area I'm interested in. The firm has a notoriously bad quality of life -- I've spoken to attorneys there who seem happy enough with their jobs but they all admit they work more than their friends at other firms. And the prevailing opinion about the firm's culture online is extremely negative. But I'm not afraid of long hours per se -- more pointless fire drills and toxicity.


I'm going through OCI this week and I'm starting to get callbacks from other firms that don't have similarly negative reputations. But these firms all specialize in very different practice areas from what I want and they aren't even ranked by Chambers. I'm sure I would work fewer hours there, but I don't know that I would have the same career opportunities.


Would I be dumb for prioritizing career opportunities over quality of life at this stage of my career? I think I could get really great experience at the more intense firm and leave after 3-4 years, whereas I might be in biglaw longer because I wouldn't have the same opportunities at the other firms.

[objctnyrhnr]

Guessing Quinn for lit.

What, anecdotally, does it seem like the average attorney bills there?

[haldren2198]

Guessing Quinn for lit.

What, anecdotally, does it seem like the average attorney bills there?

Can neither confirm nor deny haha. The requirement for market bonus is 2100 (pro rated below) and attorneys I spoke to said the vast majority bill about that, with a few closer to 2400+ if they’re gunning for partner. From my conversations with associates, you’re welcome to stick around indefinitely if you consistently bill around 2100.

[attorney589753]

On net it will be easier to lateral into a law firm with better QoL than lateral into a niche practice group down the line. I think prioritizing practice group for the first few years makes sense, provided you think you can tough it out to stick around.

[Anonymous User]

On net it will be easier to lateral into a law firm with better QoL than lateral into a niche practice group down the line. I think prioritizing practice group for the first few years makes sense, provided you think you can tough it out to stick around.

Caveat that if it's Quinn (often P side) you may be conflicted out of a lot of D side firms.

[TheGreatestGunner]

Yes, there are enormous differences in qol. Some firms are known for insane hours. You don’t see that as much at others. That said, some people really want as many hours as possible as fast as possible and there are firms that offer that.

But this really is a thing. So make sure to pick what works for you.

[Anonymous User]

my experience working at Quinn a few years back (btw I just made a similar post the other week -- are you asking this again?):

-didn't work more than friends doing lit at other firms.
-had a better experience and worked with kinder people than friends at other firms (but also saw shitty people at quinn who I had the good fortune and overtly intended to not work with them)
-example: mofo. wow, cool name; they're really pro-LGBT and stuff. but my friends who worked there were far more overworked with more bizarre sociopathic partner behavior than I experienced

I'm not saying Quinn is the greatest thing ever or that you should work there, but my impression was the differences are really about the PARTNER, not about the FIRM. it's mostly impossible to know, but try to learn about the PEOPLE you could work with and make a character judgment about them.

by the way, what are your career goals? why does 'experience' matter to you? for me at least, I knew I wanted to go in-house, so it was about working on specific matters for specific clients more than 'great experience.' if you want to litigate for the rest of your life, I guess I could see that mattering, but perhaps you should go work for a DA or AUSA for a few years then move into biglaw if that's really your goal.

[haldren2198]

my experience working at Quinn a few years back (btw I just made a similar post the other week -- are you asking this again?):

-didn't work more than friends doing lit at other firms.
-had a better experience and worked with kinder people than friends at other firms (but also saw shitty people at quinn who I had the good fortune and overtly intended to not work with them)
-example: mofo. wow, cool name; they're really pro-LGBT and stuff. but my friends who worked there were far more overworked with more bizarre sociopathic partner behavior than I experienced

I'm not saying Quinn is the greatest thing ever or that you should work there, but my impression was the differences are really about the PARTNER, not about the FIRM. it's mostly impossible to know, but try to learn about the PEOPLE you could work with and make a character judgment about them.

by the way, what are your career goals? why does 'experience' matter to you? for me at least, I knew I wanted to go in-house, so it was about working on specific matters for specific clients more than 'great experience.' if you want to litigate for the rest of your life, I guess I could see that mattering, but perhaps you should go work for a DA or AUSA for a few years then move into biglaw if that's really your goal.

Thanks for the input and advice. Great to hear about your experience. My goals are still open-ended but I would love to go in-house at a media company and I’m looking for a firm where that would be attainable.

[objctnyrhnr]

2100 is not bad QOL. It’s completely fine and doable, given what they’re paying you IMO.

And a bonus at Quinn from what I’ve heard is they won’t make you do a ton of non billable stuff, which should make it even easier.

—lit associate at v30 who regularly does 2100 to 2300.

[Anonymous User]

2100 is not bad QOL. It’s completely fine and doable, given what they’re paying you IMO.

And a bonus at Quinn from what I’ve heard is they won’t make you do a ton of non billable stuff, which should make it even easier.

—lit associate at v30 who regularly does 2100 to 2300.

Second that 2100 is nothing to worry about, especially in litigation where either (1) the work is more predictable than corporate and (2) if you hit a rough patch like trial you can (hopefully) go easier for the rest of the year. The pain doesn't really start until you start pushing 2400, or trying to do less than that with significant out of work obligations like a family.

[gregfootball2001]

2100 is not bad QOL. It’s completely fine and doable, given what they’re paying you IMO.

And a bonus at Quinn from what I’ve heard is they won’t make you do a ton of non billable stuff, which should make it even easier.

—lit associate at v30 who regularly does 2100 to 2300.

Second that 2100 is nothing to worry about, especially in litigation where either (1) the work is more predictable than corporate and (2) if you hit a rough patch like trial you can (hopefully) go easier for the rest of the year. The pain doesn't really start until you start pushing 2400, or trying to do less than that with significant out of work obligations like a family.

Thirding that 2100 is not bad. However, I want to bring up something from one of your posts above regarding toxicity. Long hours are long hours, but they're doable. Dealing with toxic people, however, will suck the life out of you. If you can, learn who you would be working for, and see if you can get any info. Who you work for can completely change your work experience.

[jotarokujo]

QoL can be different but i wouldn't put too much weight on cultural differences between firms. culture within your group matters much more. it's hard for work opportunities to be outweighed i guess is what im saying

[tlsguy2020]

wtf are you all talking about. billing 2100 isn't the worst, but its also not particularly pleasant. that said, the issue with quinn isn't that people have to work 2100 hours, which is common in a lot of places. the issue is that quinn associates HAVE to bill 2100 to get their full bonus. get married and go on a honeymoon? you might be fucked unless you bank a few very unpleasant months. hit a personal rough patch and bill in the low-100s for a month? you now have to come up with 100-300 more hours than you would at a peer firm.