Opinions on: Cooley, WSGR, Fenwick, Perkins Coie (Silicon Valley) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi TLS! Trying to decide among these firms for next summer. I'm interested in general corporate work, leaning toward EC/VC. Not sure if I would stay in BL or exit for in-house opportunities.

From my interviews, I would say I liked Fenwick the least because I got a somewhat unpleasant/douchey vibe. WSGR was a mixed bag of nice people + kinda weird people that I struggled to connect with. I really enjoyed both my Cooley and Perkins interviews.

I've also heard some negative things about Fenwick's open market system (you need to be with the "in" group to get good work) and the typical silo-ing stories about WSGR.

I would love to get some perspective/opinions on any of these firms.

[Anonymous User]

Just having worked across from all these firms (but not being at them), I think your assessment is about right. I gear towards M&A, but have worked with all these firms in various roles.

Haven’t liked a lot of Fenwick attorneys I’ve seen. They have some really talented attorneys like Ken Myers, but a lot of them are just unnecessarily annoying/hostile to work across.

WSGR Bay Area is trying to get more large public company tech work and has deemphasized EC/VC work. There are a lot of people I like there (Mike Russell who heads their M&A practice is one of the nicer people in biglaw), but feels kind of like a mixed bag. Representing large tech companies just requires a type of aggressiveness since they’re so unwilling to compromise - it’s kind of the same thing Fenwick suffers from.

Cooley is probably the best EC/VC firm of the group, and probably regarded as having the best culture. They also seem like they have a bit of the Bay Area “you can wear flip flops to work while you bill 85 hours this week, it’s such a laid back culture here.” But most of the Bay Area firms struggle with the same thing.

Perkins I’ve seen less, but have always liked working opposite. May be the best cultural fit of the group, but I would consider them below the other 3 firms in terms of quality of work

[Anonymous User]

Hi TLS! Trying to decide among these firms for next summer. I'm interested in general corporate work, leaning toward EC/VC. Not sure if I would stay in BL or exit for in-house opportunities.

From my interviews, I would say I liked Fenwick the least because I got a somewhat unpleasant/douchey vibe. WSGR was a mixed bag of nice people + kinda weird people that I struggled to connect with. I really enjoyed both my Cooley and Perkins interviews.

I've also heard some negative things about Fenwick's open market system (you need to be with the "in" group to get good work) and the typical silo-ing stories about WSGR.

I would love to get some perspective/opinions on any of these firms.

Anon because @ WSGR.

Would stay away. Wouldn't touch with 10 foot pole. Very siloed. I refused to believe the stories that the people were rude. Associates have been mixed. Partners could have cared less. At least the one's I worked with. Came from V15. Worst decision. Looking to leave.

Have heard good things about Cooley.

[Anonymous User]

Just having worked across from all these firms (but not being at them), I think your assessment is about right. I gear towards M&A, but have worked with all these firms in various roles.

Haven’t liked a lot of Fenwick attorneys I’ve seen. They have some really talented attorneys like Ken Myers, but a lot of them are just unnecessarily annoying/hostile to work across.

WSGR Bay Area is trying to get more large public company tech work and has deemphasized EC/VC work. There are a lot of people I like there (Mike Russell who heads their M&A practice is one of the nicer people in biglaw), but feels kind of like a mixed bag. Representing large tech companies just requires a type of aggressiveness since they’re so unwilling to compromise - it’s kind of the same thing Fenwick suffers from.

Cooley is probably the best EC/VC firm of the group, and probably regarded as having the best culture. They also seem like they have a bit of the Bay Area “you can wear flip flops to work while you bill 85 hours this week, it’s such a laid back culture here.” But most of the Bay Area firms struggle with the same thing.

Perkins I’ve seen less, but have always liked working opposite. May be the best cultural fit of the group, but I would consider them below the other 3 firms in terms of quality of work

OP here! Thanks, this is super helpful. I'm torn between Cooley and Perkins because the culture seems pretty good at both, but Cooley definitely seems like I'd get more opportunities.

[Anonymous User]

Hi TLS! Trying to decide among these firms for next summer. I'm interested in general corporate work, leaning toward EC/VC. Not sure if I would stay in BL or exit for in-house opportunities.

From my interviews, I would say I liked Fenwick the least because I got a somewhat unpleasant/douchey vibe. WSGR was a mixed bag of nice people + kinda weird people that I struggled to connect with. I really enjoyed both my Cooley and Perkins interviews.

I've also heard some negative things about Fenwick's open market system (you need to be with the "in" group to get good work) and the typical silo-ing stories about WSGR.

I would love to get some perspective/opinions on any of these firms.

Anon because @ WSGR.

Would stay away. Wouldn't touch with 10 foot pole. Very siloed. I refused to believe the stories that the people were rude. Associates have been mixed. Partners could have cared less. At least the one's I worked with. Came from V15. Worst decision. Looking to leave.

Have heard good things about Cooley.

OP here. Damn, that sounds rough. I tried asking a couple WSGR people about the silo-ing/group situation and they were pretty vague. They made it seem like you could work with different groups or switch, but not sure.

[Anonymous User]

Hi TLS! Trying to decide among these firms for next summer. I'm interested in general corporate work, leaning toward EC/VC. Not sure if I would stay in BL or exit for in-house opportunities.

From my interviews, I would say I liked Fenwick the least because I got a somewhat unpleasant/douchey vibe. WSGR was a mixed bag of nice people + kinda weird people that I struggled to connect with. I really enjoyed both my Cooley and Perkins interviews.

I've also heard some negative things about Fenwick's open market system (you need to be with the "in" group to get good work) and the typical silo-ing stories about WSGR.

I would love to get some perspective/opinions on any of these firms.

Anon because @ WSGR.

Would stay away. Wouldn't touch with 10 foot pole. Very siloed. I refused to believe the stories that the people were rude. Associates have been mixed. Partners could have cared less. At least the one's I worked with. Came from V15. Worst decision. Looking to leave.

Have heard good things about Cooley.

Anon because also at WSGR.

FWIW my experience has been fine. The people in my group, both associates and partners, are fine. I work in a specialty practice group though. If you're coming in as a junior (as opposed to a lateral), the Launch program could alleviate the silo issue to some degree, assuming you're heading to the Palo Alto office. Maybe something to ask during post-offer conversations.

@ OP: if you're looking for EC/VC, I would choose between Cooley, Fenwick, and WSGR.

[Anonymous User]

Just having worked across from all these firms (but not being at them), I think your assessment is about right. I gear towards M&A, but have worked with all these firms in various roles.

Haven’t liked a lot of Fenwick attorneys I’ve seen. They have some really talented attorneys like Ken Myers, but a lot of them are just unnecessarily annoying/hostile to work across.

WSGR Bay Area is trying to get more large public company tech work and has deemphasized EC/VC work. There are a lot of people I like there (Mike Russell who heads their M&A practice is one of the nicer people in biglaw), but feels kind of like a mixed bag. Representing large tech companies just requires a type of aggressiveness since they’re so unwilling to compromise - it’s kind of the same thing Fenwick suffers from.

Cooley is probably the best EC/VC firm of the group, and probably regarded as having the best culture. They also seem like they have a bit of the Bay Area “you can wear flip flops to work while you bill 85 hours this week, it’s such a laid back culture here.” But most of the Bay Area firms struggle with the same thing.

Perkins I’ve seen less, but have always liked working opposite. May be the best cultural fit of the group, but I would consider them below the other 3 firms in terms of quality of work

OP here! Thanks, this is super helpful. I'm torn between Cooley and Perkins because the culture seems pretty good at both, but Cooley definitely seems like I'd get more opportunities.

Think if you want to do corporate work (not even just EC/VC), Cooley is the easy answer between these two. They have stronger/more built-out practices across the board, particularly in EC/VC (where they're top of the market and Perkins is at least a tier behind). Given the fact that you've narrowed it down to these two and culture is a toss-up to you, it seems like it should be a pretty easy choice.

[Anonymous User]

Have friends at Fenwick and worked across Fenwick substantially. Fenwick sucks hard. They really suck to work across from in M&A (buy-side M&A form is a disaster designed to trap targets), and personalities are tough. Good luck if you want to go there. And by the way, everyone knows Wilson sucks, so not gonna poo on them. Just adding my thoughts on Fenwick since they don't get enough bad press that they deserve.

[Anonymous User]

Anon because im @ Wilson. I continually heard bad things about Wilson before lateraling there. Now that I'm in a smaller office, it seems like a good place? Especially compared to my previous higher ranked firm? I'm getting life cycle representation experience which is awesome and also my wlb is pretty dang good. Maybe it's just my office tho, I guess Palo Alto could be different? Idk. Worked with a jerk senior who's based in Boston but haven't encountered anyone else that is worth complaining about.

[Anonymous User]

Just having worked across from all these firms (but not being at them), I think your assessment is about right. I gear towards M&A, but have worked with all these firms in various roles.

Haven’t liked a lot of Fenwick attorneys I’ve seen. They have some really talented attorneys like Ken Myers, but a lot of them are just unnecessarily annoying/hostile to work across.

WSGR Bay Area is trying to get more large public company tech work and has deemphasized EC/VC work. There are a lot of people I like there (Mike Russell who heads their M&A practice is one of the nicer people in biglaw), but feels kind of like a mixed bag. Representing large tech companies just requires a type of aggressiveness since they’re so unwilling to compromise - it’s kind of the same thing Fenwick suffers from.

Cooley is probably the best EC/VC firm of the group, and probably regarded as having the best culture. They also seem like they have a bit of the Bay Area “you can wear flip flops to work while you bill 85 hours this week, it’s such a laid back culture here.” But most of the Bay Area firms struggle with the same thing.

Perkins I’ve seen less, but have always liked working opposite. May be the best cultural fit of the group, but I would consider them below the other 3 firms in terms of quality of work

OP here! Thanks, this is super helpful. I'm torn between Cooley and Perkins because the culture seems pretty good at both, but Cooley definitely seems like I'd get more opportunities.

Think if you want to do corporate work (not even just EC/VC), Cooley is the easy answer between these two. They have stronger/more built-out practices across the board, particularly in EC/VC (where they're top of the market and Perkins is at least a tier behind). Given the fact that you've narrowed it down to these two and culture is a toss-up to you, it seems like it should be a pretty easy choice.

OP here -- thanks, that definitely makes sense! Cooley felt like more of a sweatshop than Perkins, but I feel like I can't pass up on the superior quality of deals and clients. Perkins definitely had more quirky/fun people imo

[Anonymous User]

Have friends at Fenwick and worked across Fenwick substantially. Fenwick sucks hard. They really suck to work across from in M&A (buy-side M&A form is a disaster designed to trap targets), and personalities are tough. Good luck if you want to go there. And by the way, everyone knows Wilson sucks, so not gonna poo on them. Just adding my thoughts on Fenwick since they don't get enough bad press that they deserve.

OP here! Lol, thanks for this. I've definitely heard that Fenwick can be pretty political, and I'm not interested in schmoozing to get work.

[Anonymous User]

From sources, the two that are great options are Cooley and Perkins.

In terms of lifestyle, Perkins is the clear winner. They also have very strong exit options if you’re interested in going in house. I do not know that Cooley would have any significantly different exit options. There is also less competition for cool/interesting assignments at Perkins just due to associate to partner ratios— there are also zero ec/vc associates from the last two summer classes from what I heard. This is counterbalanced by the number of opportunities at Cooley, and, the potential for some really cool stuff, but you might get more senior work more quickly at Perkins. If you want to lateral to biglaw Cooley has an edge there.

WSGR is known. Fenwick is yikes.

[Anonymous User]

Not to derail, but does anyone have experience with the antitrust groups at these firms, either through working with/in/opposite the group, or through a contact with insight?

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Any insight into Baker McKenzie (Palo Alto)?

[Anonymous User]

From sources, the two that are great options are Cooley and Perkins.

In terms of lifestyle, Perkins is the clear winner. They also have very strong exit options if you’re interested in going in house. I do not know that Cooley would have any significantly different exit options. There is also less competition for cool/interesting assignments at Perkins just due to associate to partner ratios— there are also zero ec/vc associates from the last two summer classes from what I heard. This is counterbalanced by the number of opportunities at Cooley, and, the potential for some really cool stuff, but you might get more senior work more quickly at Perkins. If you want to lateral to biglaw Cooley has an edge there.

WSGR is known. Fenwick is yikes.

I think if you’re going to move in house to be a corporate lawyer in the Bay Area, a firm like Cooley (and WSGR/Fenwick/Gunderson) will definitely carry more weight than Perkins at a lot of places. The network, but also name recognition that these firms carry out in the Bay Area is significant.

[attorney589753]

From sources, the two that are great options are Cooley and Perkins.

In terms of lifestyle, Perkins is the clear winner. They also have very strong exit options if you’re interested in going in house. I do not know that Cooley would have any significantly different exit options. There is also less competition for cool/interesting assignments at Perkins just due to associate to partner ratios— there are also zero ec/vc associates from the last two summer classes from what I heard. This is counterbalanced by the number of opportunities at Cooley, and, the potential for some really cool stuff, but you might get more senior work more quickly at Perkins. If you want to lateral to biglaw Cooley has an edge there.

WSGR is known. Fenwick is yikes.

I think if you’re going to move in house to be a corporate lawyer in the Bay Area, a firm like Cooley (and WSGR/Fenwick/Gunderson) will definitely carry more weight than Perkins at a lot of places. The network, but also name recognition that these firms carry out in the Bay Area is significant.

I agree with this last post. It's nuanced and depends a bit on what type of in-house role you eventually want one day, and Perkins is a known firm in ECVC space, but not the same level of reputation as Cooley or those others.

[Anonymous User]

Anon because I'm at Fenwick.

I don't understand the Fenwick hate. I'm here and love it. Weekends have been mostly free and co-workers are great/very reasonable. Outside of TLS it also seems to have the best rep for culture (only positive on fishbowl and reddit for instance while you hear completely opposite things about WSGR and Cooley).

Free market is different but it also gives you more control/freedom and I don't think you need to be all that political because there is plenty of work to go around.

I will add on that I'm lot and maybe corporate is different but haven't heard such complaints/stories internally from anyone in my starting class and I talk to someone in corporate fairly regularly.

[danishblue]

Any connection to Kleiner Perkins venture capital?

[Anonymous User]

Personally know someone who summered at Perkins SF for the last two summers and is joining the office as an EC/VC associate upon graduation. From my understanding, their summer classes are structured so that you join without a practice group preference. It's not until the end of summer where you indicate which practice group you want to join.

From sources, the two that are great options are Cooley and Perkins.

In terms of lifestyle, Perkins is the clear winner. They also have very strong exit options if you’re interested in going in house. I do not know that Cooley would have any significantly different exit options. There is also less competition for cool/interesting assignments at Perkins just due to associate to partner ratios— there are also zero ec/vc associates from the last two summer classes from what I heard. This is counterbalanced by the number of opportunities at Cooley, and, the potential for some really cool stuff, but you might get more senior work more quickly at Perkins. If you want to lateral to biglaw Cooley has an edge there.

WSGR is known. Fenwick is yikes.

[Anonymous User]

Personally know someone who summered at Perkins SF for the last two summers and is joining the office as an EC/VC associate upon graduation. From my understanding, their summer classes are structured so that you join without a practice group preference. It's not until the end of summer where you indicate which practice group you want to join.

From sources, the two that are great options are Cooley and Perkins.

In terms of lifestyle, Perkins is the clear winner. They also have very strong exit options if you’re interested in going in house. I do not know that Cooley would have any significantly different exit options. There is also less competition for cool/interesting assignments at Perkins just due to associate to partner ratios— there are also zero ec/vc associates from the last two summer classes from what I heard. This is counterbalanced by the number of opportunities at Cooley, and, the potential for some really cool stuff, but you might get more senior work more quickly at Perkins. If you want to lateral to biglaw Cooley has an edge there.

WSGR is known. Fenwick is yikes.

[Anonymous User]

Not to derail, but does anyone have experience with the antitrust groups at these firms, either through working with/in/opposite the group, or through a contact with insight?

Thanks!

WSGR is the only one of these with a significant antitrust presence (at least w/r/t government facing work). I'm sure the rest do some level of counseling, but they're not major players (yet!). Cooley recently hired a former senior official from DOJ so they're making some moves, but still not a major factor.

[Anonymous User]

WSGR isn’t a good place IMO. Culture leaves a lot to be desired, partners can be toxic. Anon cuz I work there. Just looking to leave. Should of listened to the Goodwin partner who used to work at WSGR and said, “I don’t care if you don’t come to Goodwin, just promise me you won’t go to WSGR because they are @SS’” Ironically I went there and he was right.

[Anonymous User]

Anon cuz also work at WSGR (Palo Alto). I like it. The partners I work with are nice people and I enjoy the work. Group dependent for sure, but so is everywhere else. Plus my group is pretty flexible with WFH.

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on the smaller players in Palo Alto?

[Anonymous User]

WSGR isn’t a good place IMO. Culture leaves a lot to be desired, partners can be toxic. Anon cuz I work there. Just looking to leave. Should of listened to the Goodwin partner who used to work at WSGR and said, “I don’t care if you don’t come to Goodwin, just promise me you won’t go to WSGR because they are @SS’” Ironically I went there and he was right.

Would you mind sharing more of what you don't like about it? I'm at the firm too, in a smaller office, and I wouldn't say I love it, but it's been fine so far. I don't do a lot of public company work though (and I find that work and those types of lawyers can get pretty miserable).