Summers: please review your firm's summer program Forum

[warfare]

Give us the good and the bad.

Please include the name of the firm and the city. I want this to be useful for future summers. Not mentioning the name of the firm / location is useless.

If you don't want to name your firm for whatever reason, please don't post about it in this thread.

[Anonymous User]

K&E Chicago

Good:
- a lot of flexibility in the work you do (you choose how substantive you want your assignments to be)
- you'll always find associates that want to grab lunch or dinner
- great cafeteria (everything is free! a lot of people took food and bottled coffee home regularly, I didn't pay for food at all this summer)
- flexibility in the time you started and ended work
- super accommodating recruiting team
- large meal budgets
- helpful practice assistants for each summer
- robust practice area-specific training (in litigation we had the KITA program, it was intense and the best time I had all summer, restructuring goes to a mock board in NY, corporate does an intense negotiation event)


Bad:
- weekly required breakfast meetings for all 100 summers (nothing happened during these)
- cringe orientation activities
- crappy gifts and summer swag
- more than a handful of insufferable summers

Neutral observations:
- heavy drinking culture that might not be for everyone
- seemed like we had more social events than my peers at other V10 firms

[Anonymous User]

Why should anyone care what the summer program is like? All that should matter is what being an associate is like.

[Anonymous User]

Why should anyone care what the summer program is like? All that should matter is what being an associate is like.

Not OP, but could help pressure firms to keep up with each other. regardless of your choice of firm, nothing wrong with trying to maximize the SA bennies.
Plus, what’s the harm in discussing? Not every convo here has to be about choosing firms or whatever - I’m honestly just curious what firms have done without having to ask everyone in person

[Anonymous User]

Why should anyone care what the summer program is like? All that should matter is what being an associate is like.

Spot the logical flaw.

Correct answer: (A)-- the speaker assumes that there is no predictive value between a horrible summer associate experience and a horrible associate experience.

[Anonymous User]

Why should anyone care what the summer program is like? All that should matter is what being an associate is like.

Spot the logical flaw.

Correct answer: (A)-- the speaker assumes that there is no predictive value between a horrible summer associate experience and a horrible associate experience.

Are you still studying for the LSAT lol? This entire website is full of information about associate life at firms that will be far more predictive than summer experiences.

[warfare]

Why should anyone care what the summer program is like? All that should matter is what being an associate is like.

Not OP, but could help pressure firms to keep up with each other. regardless of your choice of firm, nothing wrong with trying to maximize the SA bennies.
Plus, what’s the harm in discussing? Not every convo here has to be about choosing firms or whatever - I’m honestly just curious what firms have done without having to ask everyone in person

Why should anyone care what the summer program is like? All that should matter is what being an associate is like.

Spot the logical flaw.

Correct answer: (A)-- the speaker assumes that there is no predictive value between a horrible summer associate experience and a horrible associate experience.

Right. We all know that the summer experience is a curated one where summers walk away having observed associate life through rose-tinted sunglasses. I don't think this implies that there is no value in providing details about components of the summer program, given how many people post questions about this in random threads. More importantly, as anon mentioned, and provided the effort most firms put into curating the perfect summer associate experience, there is no reason to think a horrible summer associate experience is wholly irrelevant to what an associate experience at the firm would look like.

[Anonymous User]

K&E Chicago

Good:
- a lot of flexibility in the work you do (you choose how substantive you want your assignments to be)
- you'll always find associates that want to grab lunch or dinner
- great cafeteria (everything is free! a lot of people took food and bottled coffee home regularly, I didn't pay for food at all this summer)
- flexibility in the time you started and ended work
- super accommodating recruiting team
- large meal budgets
- helpful practice assistants for each summer
- robust practice area-specific training (in litigation we had the KITA program, it was intense and the best time I had all summer, restructuring goes to a mock board in NY, corporate does an intense negotiation event)


Bad:
- weekly required breakfast meetings for all 100 summers (nothing happened during these)
- cringe orientation activities
- crappy gifts and summer swag
- more than a handful of insufferable summers

Neutral observations:
- heavy drinking culture that might not be for everyone
- seemed like we had more social events than my peers at other V10 firms

Also KE Chicago here. Didn’t mind the breakfast meetings, but everything else tracks in my opinion - though I really didn’t find more than a couple corporate/Rx summers to be insufferable. Special echo to the atrocious summer gifts.

Couple notes to add:
- they 100% purposely hid some associates from the summers for a variety of reasons (i.e., weird)
- re associate life - firm is massive. some people get by billing low 2000s and have great teams/enjoy their life, other teams are brutal and associates are closer to 3000 hours. really depends on what teams you latch on to.
- remote work is really flexible. office is completely dead M/F and about 60% full Tues-Thurs. Many associates still just don’t come in.
- funds group was recruiting really hard - was overbearing/uncomfortable at times
- really no billable expectation for summers. you could probably get an offer by billing 15 hours the entire summer lol

Overall I had a great summer, if I had to slap a grade on it I’d go A-.

Edit: Also want to add that you (rising 2Ls) should be careful/skeptical about what you read and hear from second-hand sources. I had folks from outside the program asking me about rumors that were either totally exaggerated or blatantly false.

[Anonymous User]

K&E Chicago

Good:
- a lot of flexibility in the work you do (you choose how substantive you want your assignments to be)
- you'll always find associates that want to grab lunch or dinner
- great cafeteria (everything is free! a lot of people took food and bottled coffee home regularly, I didn't pay for food at all this summer)
- flexibility in the time you started and ended work
- super accommodating recruiting team
- large meal budgets
- helpful practice assistants for each summer
- robust practice area-specific training (in litigation we had the KITA program, it was intense and the best time I had all summer, restructuring goes to a mock board in NY, corporate does an intense negotiation event)


Bad:
- weekly required breakfast meetings for all 100 summers (nothing happened during these)
- cringe orientation activities
- crappy gifts and summer swag
- more than a handful of insufferable summers

Neutral observations:
- heavy drinking culture that might not be for everyone
- seemed like we had more social events than my peers at other V10 firms

Also KE Chicago here. Didn’t mind the breakfast meetings, but everything else tracks in my opinion - though I really didn’t find more than a couple corporate/Rx summers to be insufferable. Special echo to the atrocious summer gifts.

Couple notes to add:
- they 100% purposely hid some associates from the summers for a variety of reasons (i.e., weird)
- re associate life - firm is massive. some people get by billing low 2000s and have great teams/enjoy their life, other teams are brutal and associates are closer to 3000 hours. really depends on what teams you latch on to.
- remote work is really flexible. office is completely dead M/F and about 60% full Tues-Thurs. Many associates still just don’t come in.
- funds group was recruiting really hard - was overbearing/uncomfortable at times
- really no billable expectation for summers. you could probably get an offer by billing 15 hours the entire summer lol

Overall I had a great summer, if I had to slap a grade on it I’d go A-.

Edit: Also want to add that you (rising 2Ls) should be careful/skeptical about what you read and hear from second-hand sources. I had folks from outside the program asking me about rumors that were either totally exaggerated or blatantly false.

How does a firm purposefully hide associates from summers? How do you know unless you were hidden? That’s a weird thing to say.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

My firm will hide even rainmaker partners from the young kids if necessary

[Anonymous User]

My firm will hide even rainmaker partners from the young kids if necessary

Like put them in a closet? Serious question here! I’d love if my firm hid people but it doesn’t seem like they can. Likely I just don’t know about it.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

My firm will hide even rainmaker partners from the young kids if necessary

Like put them in a closet? Serious question here! I’d love if my firm hid people but it doesn’t seem like they can. Likely I just don’t know about it.

Every firm does this to some extent. Like not having them interview SA candidates due to a history of being a dickhead to them.

[Anonymous User]

How does a firm purposefully hide associates from summers? How do you know unless you were hidden? That’s a weird thing to say.

Not sure how this is a weird thing to say when it’s an observation. Associates literally told some other associates to stay away from summers.

[Anonymous User]

Love this thread - it gets TLS in a nutshell. OP was looking for insight into summer programs. A third of the responses bickered about whether the question matters, a third of the responses are about KE, and the rest go down some tangent about sheltering the summers. 11/10 this is why I come here.

[Anonymous User]

In my non KE firm, I can't speak to "hiding" but there were definitely some associates who were encouraged to engage with the summers more than offers. Partners and recruitment staff have a curated view of the firm they want to portray. We were all told to take kids out to lunch so I don't think we "hid" anyone, but we're not riddled with psychopaths so it wasn't necessary.

[polareagle]

My firm will hide even rainmaker partners from the young kids if necessary

Like put them in a closet? Serious question here! I’d love if my firm hid people but it doesn’t seem like they can. Likely I just don’t know about it.

I mean, this isn't hard. In addition to choosing who does OCI and who does callback interviewing, recruiting also decides who get invited to summer events. Maybe at some firms they just email the "associates" and "partners" email lists, but I'd bet at most that certain associates and partners are selected as being good ambassadors for the firm. When asked, recruiting would probably say that they want to spread around opportunities and balance numbers, but certain associates and partners will never (or very, very rarely) get invited. If you look around and have no idea who's getting hidden from the summers, it's probably you.

[Anonymous User]

Non KE poster who asked about hiding people. I asked because there is a desperation at my V10 for people to attend summer events. Like anyone can go. There is no curation. What could a firm possibly hide lol? People can still walk around during the day and see what a hellhole the firm is. It’s incredibly clear. Anyways, the non-weird 5th years going to summer associate events are probably leaving soon anyways.

[Anonymous User]

Love this thread - it gets TLS in a nutshell. OP was looking for insight into summer programs. A third of the responses bickered about whether the question matters, a third of the responses are about KE, and the rest go down some tangent about sheltering the summers. 11/10 this is why I come here.

Because there is no insight to be had about summer programs. Lol at the substantive KE Chicago training. Did you not sleep for 4 days straight then get told you aren’t working hard enough? No? Then it’s not substantive training.

[Anonymous User]

K&E Chicago

Good:
- a lot of flexibility in the work you do (you choose how substantive you want your assignments to be)
- you'll always find associates that want to grab lunch or dinner
- great cafeteria (everything is free! a lot of people took food and bottled coffee home regularly, I didn't pay for food at all this summer)
- flexibility in the time you started and ended work
- super accommodating recruiting team
- large meal budgets
- helpful practice assistants for each summer
- robust practice area-specific training (in litigation we had the KITA program, it was intense and the best time I had all summer, restructuring goes to a mock board in NY, corporate does an intense negotiation event)


Bad:
- weekly required breakfast meetings for all 100 summers (nothing happened during these)
- cringe orientation activities
- crappy gifts and summer swag
- more than a handful of insufferable summers

Neutral observations:
- heavy drinking culture that might not be for everyone
- seemed like we had more social events than my peers at other V10 firms

Also KE Chicago here. Didn’t mind the breakfast meetings, but everything else tracks in my opinion - though I really didn’t find more than a couple corporate/Rx summers to be insufferable. Special echo to the atrocious summer gifts.

Couple notes to add:
- they 100% purposely hid some associates from the summers for a variety of reasons (i.e., weird)
- re associate life - firm is massive. some people get by billing low 2000s and have great teams/enjoy their life, other teams are brutal and associates are closer to 3000 hours. really depends on what teams you latch on to.
- remote work is really flexible. office is completely dead M/F and about 60% full Tues-Thurs. Many associates still just don’t come in.
- funds group was recruiting really hard - was overbearing/uncomfortable at times
- really no billable expectation for summers. you could probably get an offer by billing 15 hours the entire summer lol

Overall I had a great summer, if I had to slap a grade on it I’d go A-.

Edit: Also want to add that you (rising 2Ls) should be careful/skeptical about what you read and hear from second-hand sources. I had folks from outside the program asking me about rumors that were either totally exaggerated or blatantly false.

Can you explain what you mean by some people get by on billing in the low 2000s? I'm a KE summer in the Chicago office as well and spoke to a few associates across different groups. Hitting 2000 is the target for many and isn't really viewed as "getting by". It seems pretty common. Of course busy groups are probably billing way more but I don't understand how this is a 'note to add'. It's standard and representative of just about any V10 firm.

[Anonymous User]

Love this thread - it gets TLS in a nutshell. OP was looking for insight into summer programs. A third of the responses bickered about whether the question matters, a third of the responses are about KE, and the rest go down some tangent about sheltering the summers. 11/10 this is why I come here.

Because there is no insight to be had about summer programs. Lol at the substantive KE Chicago training. Did you not sleep for 4 days straight then get told you aren’t working hard enough? No? Then it’s not substantive training.

Then don't post? Really just chill, it will all be okay. The world will not end because some 2Ls are posting about something you don't care about.

You're right that summer programs are irrelevant to what life is like as an associate, and yet this thread still has insight. Most biglaw firms are interchangeable, but some summer programs are definitely more fun than others. If you are going to have to slog it out as an associate regardless, then why not pick a firm with a kickass summer program? Also, lots of people don't plan to go back, so the summer program is literally all that matters.

[Anonymous User]

Love this thread - it gets TLS in a nutshell. OP was looking for insight into summer programs. A third of the responses bickered about whether the question matters, a third of the responses are about KE, and the rest go down some tangent about sheltering the summers. 11/10 this is why I come here.

Because there is no insight to be had about summer programs. Lol at the substantive KE Chicago training. Did you not sleep for 4 days straight then get told you aren’t working hard enough? No? Then it’s not substantive training.

Then don't post? Really just chill, it will all be okay. The world will not end because some 2Ls are posting about something you don't care about.

You're right that summer programs are irrelevant to what life is like as an associate, and yet this thread still has insight. Most biglaw firms are interchangeable, but some summer programs are definitely more fun than others. If you are going to have to slog it out as an associate regardless, then why not pick a firm with a kickass summer program? Also, lots of people don't plan to go back, so the summer program is literally all that matters.

Look if you want to decide on a firm based on the summer experience you can. But it's extremely silly to end up at a sweatshop getting burnt out earlier just because people on the internet said the summer was fun. You're getting played by the firm for a sucker.

As for those claiming they aren't going back, sounds a lot like the kids who really want to do PI, see, but let's check out OCI for fun. Ten years later, they're still in biglaw telling themselves it's temporary.

[Anonymous User]

Love this thread - it gets TLS in a nutshell. OP was looking for insight into summer programs. A third of the responses bickered about whether the question matters, a third of the responses are about KE, and the rest go down some tangent about sheltering the summers. 11/10 this is why I come here.

Because there is no insight to be had about summer programs. Lol at the substantive KE Chicago training. Did you not sleep for 4 days straight then get told you aren’t working hard enough? No? Then it’s not substantive training.

Then don't post? Really just chill, it will all be okay. The world will not end because some 2Ls are posting about something you don't care about.

You're right that summer programs are irrelevant to what life is like as an associate, and yet this thread still has insight. Most biglaw firms are interchangeable, but some summer programs are definitely more fun than others. If you are going to have to slog it out as an associate regardless, then why not pick a firm with a kickass summer program? Also, lots of people don't plan to go back, so the summer program is literally all that matters.

Look if you want to decide on a firm based on the summer experience you can. But it's extremely silly to end up at a sweatshop getting burnt out earlier just because people on the internet said the summer was fun. You're getting played by the firm for a sucker.

As for those claiming they aren't going back, sounds a lot like the kids who really want to do PI, see, but let's check out OCI for fun. Ten years later, they're still in biglaw telling themselves it's temporary.

Please go touch some grass - most of us are on this thread to learn about the variety of summer programs lol

[Anonymous User]

Can you explain what you mean by some people get by on billing in the low 2000s? I'm a KE summer in the Chicago office as well and spoke to a few associates across different groups. Hitting 2000 is the target for many and isn't really viewed as "getting by". It seems pretty common. Of course busy groups are probably billing way more but I don't understand how this is a 'note to add'. It's standard and representative of just about any V10 firm.

Meaning the firm has a reputation for being a super-sweatshop but there are, in fact, plenty of associates who are content/able to bill low 2000’s, like any other firm. i.e., I don’t think the critique is necessarily deserved. There are law students who legitimately believe firms like Sidley bill significantly less than KE.

[Anonymous User]

Look if you want to decide on a firm based on the summer experience you can. But it's extremely silly to end up at a sweatshop getting burnt out earlier just because people on the internet said the summer was fun. You're getting played by the firm for a sucker.

As for those claiming they aren't going back, sounds a lot like the kids who really want to do PI, see, but let's check out OCI for fun. Ten years later, they're still in biglaw telling themselves it's temporary.

What about the OP suggests you should pick a firm based on the summer program? Genuinely curious as to what set you off. TBH it sounds like you must have made the mistake you discuss above, because I can't imagine anybody else being so insufferably persistent about something nobody disputes and that's only tangentially relevant to the OP.

[Anonymous User]

Look if you want to decide on a firm based on the summer experience you can. But it's extremely silly to end up at a sweatshop getting burnt out earlier just because people on the internet said the summer was fun. You're getting played by the firm for a sucker.

As for those claiming they aren't going back, sounds a lot like the kids who really want to do PI, see, but let's check out OCI for fun. Ten years later, they're still in biglaw telling themselves it's temporary.

What about the OP suggests you should pick a firm based on the summer program? Genuinely curious as to what set you off. TBH it sounds like you must have made the mistake you discuss above, because I can't imagine anybody else being so insufferably persistent about something nobody disputes and that's only tangentially relevant to the OP.

That was in direct response to "If you are going to have to slog it out as an associate regardless, then why not pick a firm with a kickass summer program?"