Sidley or Hogan (DC) Forum

[Anonymous User]

I know I'm incredibly privileged to be in this position, and I plan to skip OCI entirely with these two offers in hand. Right now I am leaning toward one of them for fit reasons but I also recognize that you can't be sure about fit without working with the people directly. So setting that aside:

- both firms are among the best in the practice area that I want to do, though Sidley covers more subgroups within the practice.
- they both handle the most prestigious work (eg the 'end up in the WSJ' work) within the practice.
- I want to work in DC for at least 5-6 years, before considering whether to stay at firm or go into government.
- both claim to provide extensive training to junior associates (no 'we give our associates a lot of autonomy' bullshit at least).

In DC they're both fantastic firms reputation-wise from what I could gather, and honestly for me it's hard to differentiate the two. Would love to hear DC folks' thoughts.

[Anonymous User]

Do you mind me asking how long after your CB with Sidley you got your offer?

[Anonymous User]

I know I'm incredibly privileged to be in this position, and I plan to skip OCI entirely with these two offers in hand. Right now I am leaning toward one of them for fit reasons but I also recognize that you can't be sure about fit without working with the people directly. So setting that aside:

- both firms are among the best in the practice area that I want to do, though Sidley covers more subgroups within the practice.
- they both handle the most prestigious work (eg the 'end up in the WSJ' work) within the practice.
- I want to work in DC for at least 5-6 years, before considering whether to stay at firm or go into government.
- both claim to provide extensive training to junior associates (no 'we give our associates a lot of autonomy' bullshit at least).

In DC they're both fantastic firms reputation-wise from what I could gather, and honestly for me it's hard to differentiate the two. Would love to hear DC folks' thoughts.

Sidley is a sweatshop

[Anonymous User]

OP here, could you elaborate? In what ways are Sidley different from the typical biglaw experience?

[Anonymous User]

Without you saying which group you’re in, pick Hogan. Better connected in DC/gov.

[Anonymous User]

I know I'm incredibly privileged to be in this position, and I plan to skip OCI entirely with these two offers in hand. Right now I am leaning toward one of them for fit reasons but I also recognize that you can't be sure about fit without working with the people directly. So setting that aside:

- both firms are among the best in the practice area that I want to do, though Sidley covers more subgroups within the practice.
- they both handle the most prestigious work (eg the 'end up in the WSJ' work) within the practice.
- I want to work in DC for at least 5-6 years, before considering whether to stay at firm or go into government.
- both claim to provide extensive training to junior associates (no 'we give our associates a lot of autonomy' bullshit at least).

In DC they're both fantastic firms reputation-wise from what I could gather, and honestly for me it's hard to differentiate the two. Would love to hear DC folks' thoughts.

Have experience with both firms. It’s very dependent on which practice you’re specifically interested in. Especially at Hogan, the firm varies a lot between groups.

Not know that, I’d generally pick Sidley. It’s a smaller office and leaner firm generally. Lot of partner-associate connections early. Better chance of getting on good work. Hogan is a huge office and lots of associates sort of slip through the cracks. It’s probably easier to coast there, but I know a lot of people who were disappointed with the level of attention and relationships they were able to form at Hogan.

[Anonymous User]

As someone who skipped OCI and went with a pre-OCI offer, I would highly recommend you do OCI for the interviewing experience and (maybe) expanded options for the select few firms that you would seriously consider alongside Sidley and Hogan. Don’t bother interviewing with the others.

I have no regrets picking the firm I did and loved my time there, but foregoing an abbreviated OCI with zero stress about offers is really a lost opportunity to get to know other firms and sharpen your interviewing skills.

[Anonymous User]

I know I'm incredibly privileged to be in this position, and I plan to skip OCI entirely with these two offers in hand. Right now I am leaning toward one of them for fit reasons but I also recognize that you can't be sure about fit without working with the people directly. So setting that aside:

- both firms are among the best in the practice area that I want to do, though Sidley covers more subgroups within the practice.
- they both handle the most prestigious work (eg the 'end up in the WSJ' work) within the practice.
- I want to work in DC for at least 5-6 years, before considering whether to stay at firm or go into government.
- both claim to provide extensive training to junior associates (no 'we give our associates a lot of autonomy' bullshit at least).

In DC they're both fantastic firms reputation-wise from what I could gather, and honestly for me it's hard to differentiate the two. Would love to hear DC folks' thoughts.

Have experience with both firms. It’s very dependent on which practice you’re specifically interested in. Especially at Hogan, the firm varies a lot between groups.

Not know that, I’d generally pick Sidley. It’s a smaller office and leaner firm generally. Lot of partner-associate connections early. Better chance of getting on good work. Hogan is a huge office and lots of associates sort of slip through the cracks. It’s probably easier to coast there, but I know a lot of people who were disappointed with the level of attention and relationships they were able to form at Hogan.

OP here. Thank you for your insight. Could you talk a little more about your experiences with the firms? Were you an associate at both?

I'm considering the international trade practices for both firms.

[Anonymous User]

As someone who skipped OCI and went with a pre-OCI offer, I would highly recommend you do OCI for the interviewing experience and (maybe) expanded options for the select few firms that you would seriously consider alongside Sidley and Hogan. Don’t bother interviewing with the others.

I have no regrets picking the firm I did and loved my time there, but foregoing an abbreviated OCI with zero stress about offers is really a lost opportunity to get to know other firms and sharpen your interviewing skills.

Echoing this. OP should aim for a heavy hitter firm in DC

[Anonymous User]

As someone who skipped OCI and went with a pre-OCI offer, I would highly recommend you do OCI for the interviewing experience and (maybe) expanded options for the select few firms that you would seriously consider alongside Sidley and Hogan. Don’t bother interviewing with the others.

I have no regrets picking the firm I did and loved my time there, but foregoing an abbreviated OCI with zero stress about offers is really a lost opportunity to get to know other firms and sharpen your interviewing skills.

Echoing this. OP should aim for a heavy hitter firm in DC

OP here. The only other firm I'd consider at this point is Covington because they're the only (with the possible exceptions of Steptoe and Akin) other trade group that's comparable to Hogan and Sidley, and I don't want to do OCI just for them because 1. I already networked with them and they've not shown much interest in me, and 2. their associates specialize early while the other two firms give associates general exposure to all parts of the trade group for the first couple of years. I'm comfortable with the idea of not working at Covington in favor of either Hogan or Sidley.

As for interview skills - I've had 6 callbacks already and have 4 offers, any one of which I'm fine with accepting. I probably have put more effort into pre-OCI networking and interviews than what people typically put into their regular OCI process. I also have years of work experience. So I feel fine with skipping OCI.

[Anonymous User]

Do you mind me asking how long after your CB with Sidley you got your offer?

OP here. Sorry for missing this. I got the offer a week after the CB.

[Anonymous User]

Lol at "Sidley is a sweatshop" - if anything, it should be recommended as a great big law firm for coasting, especially in the DC office for competent/normal people.

[Anonymous User]

Do you mind sharing your timeline of screener-cb-offer for Hogan? Just had a screener with them today.

[Anonymous User]

In DC, the firm you’re at matters a lot more than your practice group. A Williams and Connolly, Covington, Latham, Kirkland and Wilmer position will probably help in the long run. It’s dumb, but Hogan isn’t seen on the same tier as the others because it’s kind of cheap and Sidley has a smaller office.

Yes, Hogan and Sidley have better trade teams than Covington and Wilmer, but I don’t think the gap is as wide as you seem to be suggesting.

[Anonymous User]

In DC, the firm you’re at matters a lot more than your practice group. A Williams and Connolly, Covington, Latham, Kirkland and Wilmer position will probably help in the long run. It’s dumb, but Hogan isn’t seen on the same tier as the others because it’s kind of cheap and Sidley has a smaller office.

Yes, Hogan and Sidley have better trade teams than Covington and Wilmer, but I don’t think the gap is as wide as you seem to be suggesting.

I cannot be the only person who has literally never heard of Latham and Kirkland being more prestigious than Hogan in DC, right? Also isn't it common knowledge that practice group specific strengths are much more important in DC than other markets?

[Anonymous User]

In DC, the firm you’re at matters a lot more than your practice group. A Williams and Connolly, Covington, Latham, Kirkland and Wilmer position will probably help in the long run. It’s dumb, but Hogan isn’t seen on the same tier as the others because it’s kind of cheap and Sidley has a smaller office.

Yes, Hogan and Sidley have better trade teams than Covington and Wilmer, but I don’t think the gap is as wide as you seem to be suggesting.

The suggestion that W&C would be better “in the long run” when it doesn’t even practice trade is disqualifying. Hogan has long been one of the very top DC firms, and Sidley has an excellent office too, this is dumb.

[Anonymous User]

In DC, the firm you’re at matters a lot more than your practice group. A Williams and Connolly, Covington, Latham, Kirkland and Wilmer position will probably help in the long run. It’s dumb, but Hogan isn’t seen on the same tier as the others because it’s kind of cheap and Sidley has a smaller office.

Yes, Hogan and Sidley have better trade teams than Covington and Wilmer, but I don’t think the gap is as wide as you seem to be suggesting.

The suggestion that W&C would be better “in the long run” when it doesn’t even practice trade is disqualifying. Hogan has long been one of the very top DC firms, and Sidley has an excellent office too, this is dumb.

I included W&C to just list the top shops. I’m not disagreeing that Hogan isn’t a top shop, but it’s the firm that’s going to cut corners and lower comp if anything happens. We’re all associates, and we care about money. Hogan did the 15% reduction when none of the other top shops in DC did.

[Anonymous User]

In DC, the firm you’re at matters a lot more than your practice group. A Williams and Connolly, Covington, Latham, Kirkland and Wilmer position will probably help in the long run. It’s dumb, but Hogan isn’t seen on the same tier as the others because it’s kind of cheap and Sidley has a smaller office.

Yes, Hogan and Sidley have better trade teams than Covington and Wilmer, but I don’t think the gap is as wide as you seem to be suggesting.

The suggestion that W&C would be better “in the long run” when it doesn’t even practice trade is disqualifying. Hogan has long been one of the very top DC firms, and Sidley has an excellent office too, this is dumb.

I included W&C to just list the top shops. I’m not disagreeing that Hogan isn’t a top shop, but it’s the firm that’s going to cut corners and lower comp if anything happens. We’re all associates, and we care about money. Hogan did the 15% reduction when none of the other top shops in DC did.

If anything, this is just an argument for Sidley. The firm is on much firmer financial footing and yeah, Hogan is pretty egregiously cheap with associates. Sidley's trade group is as good or better too, and I think Sidley's DC office has a pretty chill and warm culture and is an easier place to navigate than Hogan's huge and at times murky corporate-y vibe.

I'm at one of the firms identified as "more prestigious" in DC and I think that's probably an exceedingly silly metric for OP. For trade, I've always thought that both firms, and especially Sidley, have a fantastic rep on par with our group. And their office is plenty "prestigious" from my vantage point. I work in appellate and they have one of the top practices in DC, with a ton of SCOTUS clerks and arguments. I do think that Hogan's rep has been sliding a bit though. Outisde of Katyal's little crew, the firm is seen (rightfully or wrongly) as a financially weak dinosour with too much deadweight and a less competitive and humongous class. Their office is nice though.

TLDR: Pick Sidley. Don't listen to the (probably law students) saying that other firms are any more "prestigious." Sidley is tops for trade, and a financially robust and well-respected office. Congrats OP.

[Anonymous User]

As someone who skipped OCI and went with a pre-OCI offer, I would highly recommend you do OCI for the interviewing experience and (maybe) expanded options for the select few firms that you would seriously consider alongside Sidley and Hogan. Don’t bother interviewing with the others.

I have no regrets picking the firm I did and loved my time there, but foregoing an abbreviated OCI with zero stress about offers is really a lost opportunity to get to know other firms and sharpen your interviewing skills.

Echoing this. OP should aim for a heavy hitter firm in DC

OP here. The only other firm I'd consider at this point is Covington because they're the only (with the possible exceptions of Steptoe and Akin) other trade group that's comparable to Hogan and Sidley, and I don't want to do OCI just for them because 1. I already networked with them and they've not shown much interest in me, and 2. their associates specialize early while the other two firms give associates general exposure to all parts of the trade group for the first couple of years. I'm comfortable with the idea of not working at Covington in favor of either Hogan or Sidley.

As for interview skills - I've had 6 callbacks already and have 4 offers, any one of which I'm fine with accepting. I probably have put more effort into pre-OCI networking and interviews than what people typically put into their regular OCI process. I also have years of work experience. So I feel fine with skipping OCI.

would love to know why you think steptoe belongs on this list?

[Anonymous User]

In DC, the firm you’re at matters a lot more than your practice group. A Williams and Connolly, Covington, Latham, Kirkland and Wilmer position will probably help in the long run. It’s dumb, but Hogan isn’t seen on the same tier as the others because it’s kind of cheap and Sidley has a smaller office.

Yes, Hogan and Sidley have better trade teams than Covington and Wilmer, but I don’t think the gap is as wide as you seem to be suggesting.

I cannot be the only person who has literally never heard of Latham and Kirkland being more prestigious than Hogan in DC, right? Also isn't it common knowledge that practice group specific strengths are much more important in DC than other markets?

I want to write in and say that as someone who knows the DC market well, the original poster above is dead wrong and giving bad advice. Acquiring skills and expertise in your given practice area is extremely important. That's easiest to do at a firm that is top in your practice area, not some random firm that happens to be a big name. Latham and Kirkland don't really do international trade at all as far as I can tell, so why would that be a better choice than Hogan and Sidley, which have top practice groups in that area?

You could argue that for general commercial litigators or general transactional, a more nationally-recognized brand is better than a more locally-recognized brand. But that goes out the window when it is a more specialized area of law that not all firms actually do.