Firms that force associates who want litigation into corporate Forum

[Anonymous User]

What firms are offenders of this? I've heard some names anecdotally ...

[Anonymous User]

What firms are offenders of this? I've heard some names anecdotally ...

I've heard of Latham, Shearman, and STB doing this to the last associate class.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, Shearman did this to several friends of mine from law school. Seems like a habit of theirs.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if Debevoise, Goodwin, DPW, Paul Weiss, or S&C do this?

[Anonymous User]

Have heard Cadwalader does this too, and worst of all the corporate group they most commonly force you into is extremely niche and non-transferrable to anything interesting.

[Anonymous User]

My v20 forces people who want M&A into niche debt practices and it totally sucks. If they can’t get me more equity-side work I’ll probably lateral

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if Debevoise, Goodwin, DPW, Paul Weiss, or S&C do this?

Paul, Weiss does this. Most recently to 7 associates in the 2021 class. They were randomly chosen lit associates and were told this two days before their start date.

Ropes also does this.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if Debevoise, Goodwin, DPW, Paul Weiss, or S&C do this?

Paul, Weiss does this. Most recently to 7 associates in the 2021 class. They were randomly chosen lit associates and were told this two days before their start date.

Ropes also does this.

Are you sure they did it "randomly" or did they just say that.

[Anonymous User]

I will +1 that Fried Frank does this; a partner told me so.

Any word on whether SullCrom or Davis Polk & Wardwell do this?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if Debevoise, Goodwin, DPW, Paul Weiss, or S&C do this?

Paul, Weiss does this. Most recently to 7 associates in the 2021 class. They were randomly chosen lit associates and were told this two days before their start date.

Ropes also does this.

Are you sure they did it "randomly" or did they just say that.

Yeah I was gonna say could you imagine being a potential future SCOTUS clerk hired for the DC appellate group and being told “sorry, you were randomly selected to do M&A”

[Anonymous User]

Better question, which firm doesn't do this? Unless you were hire directly to a practice group (and some firms OCI separately lit and transactional), you were hired by a firm for their needs, and if that's corporate, that's where you'll end up.

[Anonymous User]

DPW associate here. Heard DPW asked some lit juniors to temporarily help out with corporate work in 2021. Seems to be the other way around now.

[Anonymous User]

Better question, which firm doesn't do this? Unless you were hire directly to a practice group (and some firms OCI separately lit and transactional), you were hired by a firm for their needs, and if that's corporate, that's where you'll end up.

I'm at Wilmer, and I think this type of thing only happened here back in '08/'09. I don't know anybody who didn't get their first choice practice group after that. In fact, I know a couple associates who were focused almost exclusively on corporate during their summer who ended up switching to lit with no issues, and another who switched from corporate to lit as a 2nd or 3rd year.

If you're worried about getting switched to corporate, I would do two things: (1) clerk and (2) pick a firm where lit isn't an afterthought.

[Anonymous User]

But Paul Weiss is a lit giant and they allegedly moved lit associates to corporate before they started per the earlier poster.

[Anonymous User]

All firms that have both Lit and Corp groups will do this if needed. You can't just have 0 first years in Corp. if 100% of summers opt for lit.

The larger the corporate group compared to the lit group the more often this happens. (Office also likely plays a role - I imagine this is less common if you are at a DC office even for firms that commonly due it in NYC.)

It's generally going to be underreported, so I wouldn't rely too much on any set of hard numbers.

Anecdotally - at my firm (and this is kind of a shitty thing) the folks who went to non T-14 schools are the first to get forced into corp. if they want lit.

[Anonymous User]

I'm deciding between DPW, Paul Weiss, S&C, Debevoise, and STB and it's going to come down to which one will let me do lit if I want it. Which of them are the safest and least safe to ensure I get lit? Thanks!!!!

[Anonymous User]

All firms that have both Lit and Corp groups will do this if needed. You can't just have 0 first years in Corp. if 100% of summers opt for lit.

The larger the corporate group compared to the lit group the more often this happens. (Office also likely plays a role - I imagine this is less common if you are at a DC office even for firms that commonly due it in NYC.)

It's generally going to be underreported, so I wouldn't rely too much on any set of hard numbers.

Anecdotally - at my firm (and this is kind of a shitty thing) the folks who went to non T-14 schools are the first to get forced into corp. if they want lit.

I’m at a non-T14, and I’d heard this, too. I really cared about getting lit, so I went with a v100 firm that gave SA offers by practice group.

[Anonymous User]

My v20 forces people who want M&A into niche debt practices and it totally sucks. If they can’t get me more equity-side work I’ll probably lateral

Yes, there are plenty of associates who want m&a or capital markets but are then forced into finance or specialty practices.

Gender and racial quotas also come into play. For instance, your summer class may be 75 large, but the litigation group can hire only 10. The group will hire at least 4 to 5 women, and at least 1 URM. Same thing with desirable corporate groups.

It doesn't matter to the firm, because you're mostly all warm bodies who can do there work, so they can put you anywhere. And you should be thankful you're making $215,000+, etc.

Some firms are great and tell you where you'll be assigned at the end of the summer. Others don't tell you until two weeks before you start. Or in Paul Weiss' case, two days.

[jotarokujo]

All firms that have both Lit and Corp groups will do this if needed. You can't just have 0 first years in Corp. if 100% of summers opt for lit.

The larger the corporate group compared to the lit group the more often this happens. (Office also likely plays a role - I imagine this is less common if you are at a DC office even for firms that commonly due it in NYC.)

It's generally going to be underreported, so I wouldn't rely too much on any set of hard numbers.

Anecdotally - at my firm (and this is kind of a shitty thing) the folks who went to non T-14 schools are the first to get forced into corp. if they want lit.

I’m at a non-T14, and I’d heard this, too. I really cared about getting lit, so I went with a v100 firm that gave SA offers by practice group.

there should be a list of schools that give SA offers by practice group, really smart to go for those firms if you want to ensure lit

[Anonymous User]

Not a fan of Quinn Emanuel, but this could be one reason to apply to them (to ensure lit). And if you have the credentials for it, a boutique, including some of the less elite ones.

[Anonymous User]

What firms are offenders of this? I've heard some names anecdotally ...

I've heard of Latham, Shearman, and STB doing this to the last associate class.

Latham does not do this. Since we have an unassigned program where you don’t opt into a group for the first 18 months and there was an extremely disproportionate amount of corporate work vs litigation, some of the unassigned associates were asked to pitch in and help out on corporate matters during that period. However, this was done with the full understanding that it wouldn’t affect their opt-in choice and I haven’t heard of anyone not receiving the group they ranked as their first choice once the unassigned period was completed. I also know several associates who just said they were “busy” every time they were asked if they could help take one corporate matter and there were zero repercussions.

Some have construed this as forcing litigation types into corporate but it is simply not the case.

[Anonymous User]

What firms are offenders of this? I've heard some names anecdotally ...

I've heard of Latham, Shearman, and STB doing this to the last associate class.

Latham does not do this. Since we have an unassigned program where you don’t opt into a group for the first 18 months and there was an extremely disproportionate amount of corporate work vs litigation, some of the unassigned associates were asked to pitch in and help out on corporate matters during that period. However, this was done with the full understanding that it wouldn’t affect their opt-in choice and I haven’t heard of anyone not receiving the group they ranked as their first choice once the unassigned period was completed. I also know several associates who just said they were “busy” every time they were asked if they could help take one corporate matter and there were zero repercussions.

Some have construed this as forcing litigation types into corporate but it is simply not the case.

How does the unassigned thing work if you’re post-clerkship (particularly interested in LW DC)? Will you still get asked to work on transactional stuff?

[Anonymous User]

Pretty sure if you're post clerkship you're going to be in litigation (or white collar etc). Not that many clerks out there and you have relevant experience others lack. If you're concerned, reach out to the firm and find out, and look for another firm if you don't get the reassurances.

As for list of firms that hire summers by group (broadly speaking), this information should be available via your OCI. I know we got separate GPA information about a few firms by lit/Corp. I think Kirkland, Sidley, Mayer Brown and maybe a couple of others.

Also re being shifted within transactional, I have seen this happen at least from M&A -> finance.

[Anonymous User]

Pretty sure if you're post clerkship you're going to be in litigation (or white collar etc). Not that many clerks out there and you have relevant experience others lack. If you're concerned, reach out to the firm and find out, and look for another firm if you don't get the reassurances.

As for list of firms that hire summers by group (broadly speaking), this information should be available via your OCI. I know we got separate GPA information about a few firms by lit/Corp. I think Kirkland, Sidley, Mayer Brown and maybe a couple of others.

Also re being shifted within transactional, I have seen this happen at least from M&A -> finance.

Does receiving separate GPA information equate to being hired into particular practice groups? Isn't it possible that these firms still hire SAs generally, offer the practice group at the end of the summer, and your school just receives this parsed data then?

[Anonymous User]

Pretty sure if you're post clerkship you're going to be in litigation (or white collar etc). Not that many clerks out there and you have relevant experience others lack. If you're concerned, reach out to the firm and find out, and look for another firm if you don't get the reassurances.

As for list of firms that hire summers by group (broadly speaking), this information should be available via your OCI. I know we got separate GPA information about a few firms by lit/Corp. I think Kirkland, Sidley, Mayer Brown and maybe a couple of others.

Also re being shifted within transactional, I have seen this happen at least from M&A -> finance.

Does receiving separate GPA information equate to being hired into particular practice groups? Isn't it possible that these firms still hire SAs generally, offer the practice group at the end of the summer, and your school just receives this parsed data then?

This was OCI callback information.