Advice on California Market Forum

[un-hyphenated]

I'm preparing for OCI at CCN, and I'm dead-set on getting a job in California, but I don't have any ties to the area. My grades are slightly below median -- I took a two-year leave of absence midway through 1L to deal with a medical issue and worked as a legal assistant in Biglaw throughout the leave -- but there is demonstrated improvement from my first semester to my second. Work-life balance is a priority for me, but I'm paying nearly sticker for law school, so I have loans to pay. Still, I'd love to be able to log off by 7 pm each day. Location doesn't matter as long as it's within California.

That being said, I'd love to hear any advice you have regarding practice areas that offer a nice balance of exit opportunities and less-insane hours, as well as any firm- or location-specific advice in general.

[Anonymous User]

I'm preparing for OCI at CCN, and I'm dead-set on getting a job in California, but I don't have any ties to the area. My grades are slightly below median -- I took a two-year leave of absence midway through 1L to deal with a medical issue and worked as a legal assistant in Biglaw throughout the leave -- but there is demonstrated improvement from my first semester to my second. Work-life balance is a priority for me, but I'm paying nearly sticker for law school, so I have loans to pay. Still, I'd love to be able to log off by 7 pm each day. Location doesn't matter as long as it's within California.

That being said, I'd love to hear any advice you have regarding practice areas that offer a nice balance of exit opportunities and less-insane hours, as well as any firm- or location-specific advice in general.

I wouldn't wait for OCI. Pre-OCI is in full swing across California markets and job offers are going out left and right.

[Anonymous User]

Reach out to Matt Schwartz. Partner at DLA Piper San diego

[Anonymous User]

Find associates from your law school at firms and reach out to set up quick Zoom coffees. If you can say in a screener that you talked with so and so and it confirmed you want to be at the firm, that’ll show you’re committed and take focus off lack of ties.

[Anonymous User]

Find associates from your law school at firms and reach out to set up quick Zoom coffees. If you can say in a screener that you talked with so and so and it confirmed you want to be at the firm, that’ll show you’re committed and take focus off lack of ties.

Not OP. Do you think there's similar benefit in talking to summer associates?

[Anonymous User]

Anon poster. Yes, there’s a similar benefit to talking to summers. When I do screeners, my first substantive question is why this firm. 98% of people regurgitate stuff from the website they likely found 2 mins before or vaguely talk about “culture” or wanting to do pro bono. A candidate who took the time to reach out to someone in the office, associate, summer, or whoever, always stands out.

[Anonymous User]

Anon poster. Yes, there’s a similar benefit to talking to summers. When I do screeners, my first substantive question is why this firm. 98% of people regurgitate stuff from the website they likely found 2 mins before or vaguely talk about “culture” or wanting to do pro bono. A candidate who took the time to reach out to someone in the office, associate, summer, or whoever, always stands out.

Very good to know, thank you.

[Anonymous User]

Curious as someone who has lived extensively in both LA and the Bay Area (was raised in one and now live in the other)--what makes you so agnostic to the location? Both regions of California are quite different (although I guess not as different as, say, California more generally v. NYC).

Answering that question might let you create a more compelling story to pitch to firms since you have no ties.

[Anonymous User]

Anon poster. Yes, there’s a similar benefit to talking to summers. When I do screeners, my first substantive question is why this firm. 98% of people regurgitate stuff from the website they likely found 2 mins before or vaguely talk about “culture” or wanting to do pro bono. A candidate who took the time to reach out to someone in the office, associate, summer, or whoever, always stands out.

Very good to know, thank you.

As someone with no ties to California, this is what I did when I was in law school and ended up at a BigLaw firm in the Bay Area. Before formal OCI interviews, reach out to an alum at the firm, express your interest in the firm, research the clients the firm does work for, ask questions about why they like the firm, etc.

[Anonymous User]

Like one of the above posters, I spent my entire life in both Norcal and Socal which are pretty different. Even Sacramento v. San Francisco/Silicon Valley and Los Angeles/Orange County/San Diego are pretty different with a distinct vibe.

In my opinion/experience at a high level:
Sacramento: Suburbs/family friendly (and cheaper).
SF/SV: Techy, more fast paced. Expensive. Good exit options into tech companies.
LA: Fun city life and more relaxed people. Big entertainment companies here if that is what you are looking for.
OC: More suburbia/family friendly, and one of the more conservative areas of CA
SD: Very chill vibes but hard to break into this market.

Obviously missing pretty much the entire central california/the rural parts, but there's not much biglaw in those parts anyway.

[Anonymous User]

Also should note that LA, even though a big city(ish), has a relatively small and tight legal market in terms of BigLaw. The number of available slots here is a fraction of those available in NYC or NorCal because there isn't a central industry here other than entertainment. A substantial fraction of those slots are snapped up by UCLA/USC/Loyola/Berkeley, and you need to (1) be a competitive applicant from T14 and (2) demonstrate some sticking point to SoCal to get a summer stint here.

However, some of the most successful and famous PI shops are here, which is a much larger market than BigLaw.

[Spartan_Alum_12]

Like one of the above posters, I spent my entire life in both Norcal and Socal which are pretty different. Even Sacramento v. San Francisco/Silicon Valley and Los Angeles/Orange County/San Diego are pretty different with a distinct vibe.

In my opinion/experience at a high level:
Sacramento: Suburbs/family friendly (and cheaper).
SF/SV: Techy, more fast paced. Expensive. Good exit options into tech companies.
LA: Fun city life and more relaxed people. Big entertainment companies here if that is what you are looking for.
OC: More suburbia/family friendly, and one of the more conservative areas of CA
SD: Very chill vibes but hard to break into this market.

Obviously missing pretty much the entire central california/the rural parts, but there's not much biglaw in those parts anyway.

Seems pretty accurate. I'd also separate out SF and SV. SF being urban living vs. SV being very suburban.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a CCN alum who went through OCI eight years ago (jeez time flies) and wanted to return to CA. My 1L grades weren't great (if I recall, I think it was ~3.2). Not gonna lie, OCI was really, really stressful. The CA market is much smaller than NY, and the number of SA spots at each firm were pretty limited. Having CCN on my resume wasn't as big of a boost as I had hoped because SA spots were largely filled with top students from CA law schools, so I definitely wouldn't apply exclusively to CA firms. I managed to snag my one and only offer at a CA big law firm almost midway through September and could just have easily struck out.

The bright side is that my classmates who couldn't get a SA position with a CA firm found something in CA one way or another in the years after OCI, whether via 3L OCI (which is still competitive/rare), lateraling from another firm, etc. (but had to deal with studying for and passing a second state bar exam). Unless things have drastically changed, expect an uphill battle, know that some luck is needed during OCI, and don't put all your eggs in one basket for CA firms, but also know that the world won't end if things don't pan out the way you want it to and you'll still have many opportunities to work in CA later. The #1 priority should be to get at least one offer from anywhere.

[Anonymous User]

Still, I'd love to be able to log off by 7 pm each day.

If you end up in a group like M&A, it won't matter if you work in CA or not because this won't be realistic. This is largely dependent on practice group/who you work for, and can vary drastically even within the same office/firm.

[Anonymous User]

That being said, I'd love to hear any advice you have regarding practice areas that offer a nice balance of exit opportunities and less-insane hours, as well as any firm- or location-specific advice in general.

If your goal is in-house, M&A gives you the best exit opportunities but has a shitty lifestyle (very unpredictable, deals blow up out of nowhere), but if you're willing to suck it up for about 4-5 years it can be worth it. If your goal is government-related (e.g., AUSA), litigation makes the most sense, which still has long hours but supposedly is less up-and-down than corporate. Tax can be a solid group both in terms of lifestyle and exit opps but has very limited open spots for SAs.