US applicant with UK LLB and US LLM. BigLaw prospects? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi all, anonymous post time!

I am a US citizen living in Europe. I'm stuck here for another 2-3 years due to my husband's work contract. This means I'm pushing off my law school start date (I don't mind), but this got me wondering:

Is it possible for me to do an LLB at a UK university and then do an LLM in the US when we move back? What are BigLaw prospects like for those people who are educated abroad (specifically, the UK)? Assuming that an applicant has excellent grades. I realize this is a rather unorthodox path.

As an aside, this would be for New York state. Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

It is generally pretty hard to find a big law position for llms, simply because there are always enough jd applicants. My impression is that those who land offers tend to be the ones with substantive legal work experience.

[Ultramar vistas]

Yeah I wouldn’t count on this working out - it definitely could, but the LLM pipeline (or really, the pipeline for anything other than standard JD applicants) to biglaw is very unpredictable and unfavorable compared to the JD applicant setup.

If you have the time, money and you’re in a good location, I would consider applying for a masters at a prestigious UK university in a non-law area - a masters from Oxford or Cambridge will be a resume boost and a distinguishing factor when you do get your JD in the US, without confusing the issue.

[CanadianWolf]

Question: If you have already earned an undergraduate degree in the US, can you earn an LLB in the UK in just two years ?

If yes, then consider doing so and working in a UK law firm for a year or two before pursuing a US LLM degree.

[Anonymous User]

Question: If you have already earned an undergraduate degree in the US, can you earn an LLB in the UK in just two years ?

If yes, then consider doing so and working in a UK law firm for a year or two before pursuing a US LLM degree.

A couple of possible routes:

1. OP could start the graduate diploma in law pretty quickly (i.e., this Fall), then the legal practice course, and if interested/able get a training contract (but that would start in two years, and be for two years). After that you'd need an LLM to sit the bar in NY (there are certain courses that you need to take if you don't have a full law degree). A label like Clifford Chance/Allen & Overy/one of the US firms in London, even for a training contract, would set you up quite well for getting a job/starting as a first year in NY.

Issues: (1) Not sure what OP's ability to work in the UK (from an immigration perspective) is. (2) Training contracts are competitive, often given out a couple of years in advance - not sure what current timing is. (3) It's not great money for a couple of years, at least in contrast with what you make as an NQ/first year in the US - BUT it's probably more relevant experience than anything you'll get taking another degree, and will put you ahead of your peers at US firms if you go into equivalent areas when you come here.

2. OP could do an LLB in the UK. (I'm not sure if there are two year options now that the LPC providers give degrees.) After that it's still three years (don't need the grad diploma, do need the LPC I think, then two years training contract) until you're "qualified" in the UK. Could also do an LLM here without being qualified in the UK. As others have noted it's a bit of a reach/market dependent as to whether you can get a job in NY. Could also just try for a job in NY after the LLB - you can sit the bar in NY with a UK (and Canadian/Australian/New Zealand) law degree, and if you go in barred you're at an advantage.

Things in OP's favor - with or without an LLM - may be visa status (an impediment to a lot of LLMs being able to stay here, since you need some sort of work visa and law firms don't like risking this; if OP is a citizen, not an issue), sitting the bar before starting an LLM (since a UK LLB allows you to sit the bar in New York; Canada, Australia, and New Zealand also allow this), and showing some flexibility in terms of practice group. If you haven't worked before it's a bit easier to sell this - "I'd love to do corporate/lit, but am open to finance/ERISA/restructuring, too". This has been an advantage for a few people lately - I've heard of some firms (e.g., Clifford Chance, Sidley) giving recently graduated Australians with barely any experience, no LLM, and no bar qualification in the US, jobs in their finance departments lately.

The bonus with an LLM is that you get in the wash with OCI recruitment (for whatever that is or isn't worth). You also have a U.S. law school that people understand on your CV. On the flip, if you come straight into this without experience, you're not giving firms past experience for "free" in the way you would if you have tangible experience - and once you get into a law firm, that's what counts more than more/fancier degrees. (Unless you're doing appellate lit in DC or are at a big plaintiffs' firm, I guess. Qualifications and credentials matter a lot there.)

Some of the biggest hitters in US corporate (the area with which I'm most familiar) have LLMs or no US qualification beyond the bar at all. (Norwitz at Wachtell, Hall at Cravath, Jon Gill at Ropes, Calder at Kirkland, Jenna MacBain at Weil, a few at other firms.) You have to be amazing and have a good deal of luck wherever you go if you want to make partner, of course. It just might be a bit harder (and you may have fewer biases in your favor) if you come in from overseas rather than a three year JD.

3. If OP wants to do litigation, could also look at going to the bar - I think that's just two more years of study (GDL + BPTC) rather than three. Pupillage in the UK is harder to get than training contracts, I understand. It's also tough to get a top US litigation job (excluding in international arbitration) with an LLM rather than a JD, but I've seen a few rare cases.

4. Of course, if the real aim is a career in the US, there's nothing that really gets you further than a JD. May boost chances by trying to get a paralegal job or even something corporate in the UK, or something assisting at courts or arbitral tribunals, but that's not necessary. Just things to consider if you're not sure what to do when you're in the UK but are intent on practicing in NY.

Not sure how much help this is.

[Anonymous User]

As someone who basically tried this: very hard to pull off unless you actually have a really good chunk of substantive work experience in law. Think years of experience, letters of recommendation, etc.

I didn't have that and just did a JD after my LLM, realizing it was largely just a waste of money.