Senior lit associate unsure of next step Forum

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Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:25 am

Hello, I am trying to decide whether to explore a lateral move at this time or stay put. I am a 7th-8th year very good commercial litigator with a very good reputation at a v25-50 with a middling commercial lit reputation.

At my current firm, I first seat trials, argue pretty much every motion I brief, win trial level cases and appeals, have complete client contact, get top evals, and am routine entrusted to argue before state and federal appeals courts. Suffice it to say that I have a very good thing going at my firm. And, as it stands in this moment, I am happy.

Despite my creds, annual hours of 2200-2400 (no issues with working those hours cause I love the work), and good relationships with partners in my office and across the firm nationally, I am still extremely concerned about partnership prospects. It is very rare that my firm makes commercial litigators partners, and when they do, it happens when a relationship partner takes the associate under their wing and they work exclusively for one massive client (which is not really possible for me given my home office and the partners who sit there).

When it comes up, I have some partners saying I have a decent shot at partnership, and some partners saying it’d be a very long shot for reasons completely outside of my control. Additionally, the firm as a whole has recently opted to just have super senior associates rather than give them a counsel-type titles due to profitability reasons. As it stands, there are no non equity partners at my firm but it is possible that could change in the coming years. From the firm’s perspective, they’re perfectly happy to have 15th year strong profitable associates doing partner level work.

I can say with complete confidence that I’d be the last commercial lit associate in my office pushed out in the event of a downturn, and more generally I feel I have about as solid of job security as one can have. I am routinely inundated with work from partners nationally, and often need to say no (which they all respect). I’ve been here 5 years and I’ve worked very hard to get this rep.

Also, I love litigating and I want to continue to do it at a high level for huge companies. I do not want to go in house, and I do not want to go to an amlaw200-type employment or insurance defense firm. I also want to avoid a situation where I’m an unmarketable 40 year old associate.

Recently I’ve been approached about potentially lateraling to become counsel at lower vault biglaw firms, with supposedly strong partnership potential for commercial litigators.

But, given the recession etc., plus everything I’ve put in to get my rep here, I’m hesitant to jump where I have such a good thing going at my current firm. I’d take a “counsel”position in biglaw in an instant, and I’m frankly a little bummed that my firm hasn’t said they’d make an exception for me if I don’t make partner. On the other hand I’m only 7-8 and partners and counsels are typically promoted at like 12 or so, so maybe it’s just early.

Should I explore a move at a weaker biglaw firm to get an immediate counsel title, or should I stay put and keep my good thing going and cross my fingers?

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:25 am
Hello, I am trying to decide whether to explore a lateral move at this time or stay put. I am a 7th-8th year very good commercial litigator with a very good reputation at a v25-50 with a middling commercial lit reputation.

At my current firm, I first seat trials, argue pretty much every motion I brief, win trial level cases and appeals, have complete client contact, get top evals, and am routine entrusted to argue before state and federal appeals courts. Suffice it to say that I have a very good thing going at my firm. And, as it stands in this moment, I am happy.

Despite my creds, annual hours of 2200-2400 (no issues with working those hours cause I love the work), and good relationships with partners in my office and across the firm nationally, I am still extremely concerned about partnership prospects. It is very rare that my firm makes commercial litigators partners, and when they do, it happens when a relationship partner takes the associate under their wing and they work exclusively for one massive client (which is not really possible for me given my home office and the partners who sit there).

When it comes up, I have some partners saying I have a decent shot at partnership, and some partners saying it’d be a very long shot for reasons completely outside of my control. Additionally, the firm as a whole has recently opted to just have super senior associates rather than give them a counsel-type titles due to profitability reasons. As it stands, there are no non equity partners at my firm but it is possible that could change in the coming years. From the firm’s perspective, they’re perfectly happy to have 15th year strong profitable associates doing partner level work.

I can say with complete confidence that I’d be the last commercial lit associate in my office pushed out in the event of a downturn, and more generally I feel I have about as solid of job security as one can have. I am routinely inundated with work from partners nationally, and often need to say no (which they all respect). I’ve been here 5 years and I’ve worked very hard to get this rep.

Also, I love litigating and I want to continue to do it at a high level for huge companies. I do not want to go in house, and I do not want to go to an amlaw200-type employment or insurance defense firm. I also want to avoid a situation where I’m an unmarketable 40 year old associate.

Recently I’ve been approached about potentially lateraling to become counsel at lower vault biglaw firms, with supposedly strong partnership potential for commercial litigators.

But, given the recession etc., plus everything I’ve put in to get my rep here, I’m hesitant to jump where I have such a good thing going at my current firm. I’d take a “counsel”position in biglaw in an instant, and I’m frankly a little bummed that my firm hasn’t said they’d make an exception for me if I don’t make partner. On the other hand I’m only 7-8 and partners and counsels are typically promoted at like 12 or so, so maybe it’s just early.

Should I explore a move at a weaker biglaw firm to get an immediate counsel title, or should I stay put and keep my good thing going and cross my fingers?
Stay put and revisit this decision in two years.

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by temp69420 » Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:00 am

Why are you only looking down? Given your resume, why not up?

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:00 am

temp69420 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:00 am
Why are you only looking down? Given your resume, why not up?
Anon here—are you suggesting that I should try lateraling to a top tier vault as an associate, or that I could somehow land at a counsel/partner position there?

If the former, wouldn’t I just be in the same (if not worse) position than I am now?

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:54 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:25 am
Hello, I am trying to decide whether to explore a lateral move at this time or stay put. I am a 7th-8th year very good commercial litigator with a very good reputation at a v25-50 with a middling commercial lit reputation.

At my current firm, I first seat trials, argue pretty much every motion I brief, win trial level cases and appeals, have complete client contact, get top evals, and am routine entrusted to argue before state and federal appeals courts. Suffice it to say that I have a very good thing going at my firm. And, as it stands in this moment, I am happy.

Despite my creds, annual hours of 2200-2400 (no issues with working those hours cause I love the work), and good relationships with partners in my office and across the firm nationally, I am still extremely concerned about partnership prospects. It is very rare that my firm makes commercial litigators partners, and when they do, it happens when a relationship partner takes the associate under their wing and they work exclusively for one massive client (which is not really possible for me given my home office and the partners who sit there).

When it comes up, I have some partners saying I have a decent shot at partnership, and some partners saying it’d be a very long shot for reasons completely outside of my control. Additionally, the firm as a whole has recently opted to just have super senior associates rather than give them a counsel-type titles due to profitability reasons. As it stands, there are no non equity partners at my firm but it is possible that could change in the coming years. From the firm’s perspective, they’re perfectly happy to have 15th year strong profitable associates doing partner level work.

I can say with complete confidence that I’d be the last commercial lit associate in my office pushed out in the event of a downturn, and more generally I feel I have about as solid of job security as one can have. I am routinely inundated with work from partners nationally, and often need to say no (which they all respect). I’ve been here 5 years and I’ve worked very hard to get this rep.

Also, I love litigating and I want to continue to do it at a high level for huge companies. I do not want to go in house, and I do not want to go to an amlaw200-type employment or insurance defense firm. I also want to avoid a situation where I’m an unmarketable 40 year old associate.

Recently I’ve been approached about potentially lateraling to become counsel at lower vault biglaw firms, with supposedly strong partnership potential for commercial litigators.

But, given the recession etc., plus everything I’ve put in to get my rep here, I’m hesitant to jump where I have such a good thing going at my current firm. I’d take a “counsel”position in biglaw in an instant, and I’m frankly a little bummed that my firm hasn’t said they’d make an exception for me if I don’t make partner. On the other hand I’m only 7-8 and partners and counsels are typically promoted at like 12 or so, so maybe it’s just early.

Should I explore a move at a weaker biglaw firm to get an immediate counsel title, or should I stay put and keep my good thing going and cross my fingers?
Stay put and revisit this decision in two years.
Appreciate the advice. That is wise and maybe slightly where I am leaning right now. I suppose I’m just concerned that the market will cool and lower amlaw won’t be looking to just add high salaried lawyers with no portable business at that point, the way (I am told) they are now.

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temp69420

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by temp69420 » Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:00 am
temp69420 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:00 am
Why are you only looking down? Given your resume, why not up?
Anon here—are you suggesting that I should try lateraling to a top tier vault as an associate, or that I could somehow land at a counsel/partner position there?

If the former, wouldn’t I just be in the same (if not worse) position than I am now?
I'm suggesting the former. If your partnership prospects are currently approximately zero, I don't see why they'd be worse higher up. Certainly your specific situation of partnership being basically impossible without a relationship partner pushing you through for one massive client is not what happens at all firms. It's not easy anywhere, but your situation sounds worse than the v10-v20 type places I'm familiar with (even though certainly it's not easy anywhere).

PriyaRai

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by PriyaRai » Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:46 am

Just crazy how hard it is to make partner in litigation.

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glitched

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by glitched » Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:11 pm

Reading this just shows me how far I am from making partner.

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:27 pm

temp69420 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:05 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:00 am
temp69420 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:00 am
Why are you only looking down? Given your resume, why not up?
Anon here—are you suggesting that I should try lateraling to a top tier vault as an associate, or that I could somehow land at a counsel/partner position there?

If the former, wouldn’t I just be in the same (if not worse) position than I am now?
I'm suggesting the former. If your partnership prospects are currently approximately zero, I don't see why they'd be worse higher up. Certainly your specific situation of partnership being basically impossible without a relationship partner pushing you through for one massive client is not what happens at all firms. It's not easy anywhere, but your situation sounds worse than the v10-v20 type places I'm familiar with (even though certainly it's not easy anywhere).
It can't hurt to try but outside of Gibson and, to a lesser extent KE and PW, V10 has approximately 0 interest in general commercial lit that the OP is describing.

there are already too many homegrown mouths to feed - the idea of someone in OP's position lateraling in at his/her level of seniority with no business book looking for partnership prospects seems pretty implausible to me, given economic structure at a DPW/CSM/whoever

these places wanna hit/keep $7M PPP. at a big firm, you're really only doing that with deals and truly massive investigations, not smaller trials + commercial contract disputes

boutiques could make sense though

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by AnonCanary123 » Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:02 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:54 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:25 am
Hello, I am trying to decide whether to explore a lateral move at this time or stay put. I am a 7th-8th year very good commercial litigator with a very good reputation at a v25-50 with a middling commercial lit reputation.

At my current firm, I first seat trials, argue pretty much every motion I brief, win trial level cases and appeals, have complete client contact, get top evals, and am routine entrusted to argue before state and federal appeals courts. Suffice it to say that I have a very good thing going at my firm. And, as it stands in this moment, I am happy.

Despite my creds, annual hours of 2200-2400 (no issues with working those hours cause I love the work), and good relationships with partners in my office and across the firm nationally, I am still extremely concerned about partnership prospects. It is very rare that my firm makes commercial litigators partners, and when they do, it happens when a relationship partner takes the associate under their wing and they work exclusively for one massive client (which is not really possible for me given my home office and the partners who sit there).

When it comes up, I have some partners saying I have a decent shot at partnership, and some partners saying it’d be a very long shot for reasons completely outside of my control. Additionally, the firm as a whole has recently opted to just have super senior associates rather than give them a counsel-type titles due to profitability reasons. As it stands, there are no non equity partners at my firm but it is possible that could change in the coming years. From the firm’s perspective, they’re perfectly happy to have 15th year strong profitable associates doing partner level work.

I can say with complete confidence that I’d be the last commercial lit associate in my office pushed out in the event of a downturn, and more generally I feel I have about as solid of job security as one can have. I am routinely inundated with work from partners nationally, and often need to say no (which they all respect). I’ve been here 5 years and I’ve worked very hard to get this rep.

Also, I love litigating and I want to continue to do it at a high level for huge companies. I do not want to go in house, and I do not want to go to an amlaw200-type employment or insurance defense firm. I also want to avoid a situation where I’m an unmarketable 40 year old associate.

Recently I’ve been approached about potentially lateraling to become counsel at lower vault biglaw firms, with supposedly strong partnership potential for commercial litigators.

But, given the recession etc., plus everything I’ve put in to get my rep here, I’m hesitant to jump where I have such a good thing going at my current firm. I’d take a “counsel”position in biglaw in an instant, and I’m frankly a little bummed that my firm hasn’t said they’d make an exception for me if I don’t make partner. On the other hand I’m only 7-8 and partners and counsels are typically promoted at like 12 or so, so maybe it’s just early.

Should I explore a move at a weaker biglaw firm to get an immediate counsel title, or should I stay put and keep my good thing going and cross my fingers?
Stay put and revisit this decision in two years.
Appreciate the advice. That is wise and maybe slightly where I am leaning right now. I suppose I’m just concerned that the market will cool and lower amlaw won’t be looking to just add high salaried lawyers with no portable business at that point, the way (I am told) they are now.
I'm not too versed in law firm economics, but if you are concerned of an economic downturn impacting the lower tier law firms, couldn't that also affect your position if you do lateral?

What if you leave right now (for a possible chance at partnership) and the economy cools? The new firm may be impacted and not willing to keep you on, per se, compared to your current firm where you have a solid rep. I also vote for staying a couple of years and revisiting the decision.

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by 12YrsAnAssociate » Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:50 pm

PriyaRai wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:46 am
Just crazy how hard it is to make partner in litigation.
True. I actually think I worked at OP's firm, which I liked a lot, but left because a v100 firm told me I'd be on partner track. I'm still an associate by the way, but I am up for partner this year and the litigation group is going to bat for me. If I don't make partner this year I'm going to ask to work remote and half time for half pay.

To OP, why do you want to be partner? Sounds like you have a great deal. If I were you I'd give it a shot where you're at and if it's a no then maybe cut back on hours or start to look at boutiques.

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:15 pm

AnonCanary123 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:04 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:02 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:54 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:25 am
Hello, I am trying to decide whether to explore a lateral move at this time or stay put. I am a 7th-8th year very good commercial litigator with a very good reputation at a v25-50 with a middling commercial lit reputation.

At my current firm, I first seat trials, argue pretty much every motion I brief, win trial level cases and appeals, have complete client contact, get top evals, and am routine entrusted to argue before state and federal appeals courts. Suffice it to say that I have a very good thing going at my firm. And, as it stands in this moment, I am happy.

Despite my creds, annual hours of 2200-2400 (no issues with working those hours cause I love the work), and good relationships with partners in my office and across the firm nationally, I am still extremely concerned about partnership prospects. It is very rare that my firm makes commercial litigators partners, and when they do, it happens when a relationship partner takes the associate under their wing and they work exclusively for one massive client (which is not really possible for me given my home office and the partners who sit there).

When it comes up, I have some partners saying I have a decent shot at partnership, and some partners saying it’d be a very long shot for reasons completely outside of my control. Additionally, the firm as a whole has recently opted to just have super senior associates rather than give them a counsel-type titles due to profitability reasons. As it stands, there are no non equity partners at my firm but it is possible that could change in the coming years. From the firm’s perspective, they’re perfectly happy to have 15th year strong profitable associates doing partner level work.

I can say with complete confidence that I’d be the last commercial lit associate in my office pushed out in the event of a downturn, and more generally I feel I have about as solid of job security as one can have. I am routinely inundated with work from partners nationally, and often need to say no (which they all respect). I’ve been here 5 years and I’ve worked very hard to get this rep.

Also, I love litigating and I want to continue to do it at a high level for huge companies. I do not want to go in house, and I do not want to go to an amlaw200-type employment or insurance defense firm. I also want to avoid a situation where I’m an unmarketable 40 year old associate.

Recently I’ve been approached about potentially lateraling to become counsel at lower vault biglaw firms, with supposedly strong partnership potential for commercial litigators.

But, given the recession etc., plus everything I’ve put in to get my rep here, I’m hesitant to jump where I have such a good thing going at my current firm. I’d take a “counsel”position in biglaw in an instant, and I’m frankly a little bummed that my firm hasn’t said they’d make an exception for me if I don’t make partner. On the other hand I’m only 7-8 and partners and counsels are typically promoted at like 12 or so, so maybe it’s just early.

Should I explore a move at a weaker biglaw firm to get an immediate counsel title, or should I stay put and keep my good thing going and cross my fingers?
Stay put and revisit this decision in two years.
Appreciate the advice. That is wise and maybe slightly where I am leaning right now. I suppose I’m just concerned that the market will cool and lower amlaw won’t be looking to just add high salaried lawyers with no portable business at that point, the way (I am told) they are now.
I'm not too versed in law firm economics, but if you are concerned of an economic downturn impacting the lower tier law firms, couldn't that also affect your position if you do lateral?

What if you leave right now (for a possible chance at partnership) and the economy cools? The new firm may be impacted and not willing to keep you on, per se, compared to your current firm where you have a solid rep. I also vote for staying a couple of years and revisiting the decision.
OP anon here. You’re hitting it right on the head. You’re nailing a huge piece of my apprehension here.

Appreciate the advice.

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:17 pm

12YrsAnAssociate wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:50 pm
PriyaRai wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:46 am
Just crazy how hard it is to make partner in litigation.
True. I actually think I worked at OP's firm, which I liked a lot, but left because a v100 firm told me I'd be on partner track. I'm still an associate by the way, but I am up for partner this year and the litigation group is going to bat for me. If I don't make partner this year I'm going to ask to work remote and half time for half pay.

To OP, why do you want to be partner? Sounds like you have a great deal. If I were you I'd give it a shot where you're at and if it's a no then maybe cut back on hours or start to look at boutiques.
Anon OP here

I want to be a partner because I don’t want to be a 15th year associate. That is also the reason I’d take of counsel. Like how long are you really gonna voluntarily remain an associate, assuming the firm lets you forever? 20th year associate? At some point you gotta put an end to it.

Yeah, I suppose I’m leaning towards giving it a shot. To the extent they will ever make a commercial lit guy partner based on wins/skill/experience, I have to think I’d be at the top of that list. Of course, the concern is that doing something like that is just a nonstarter these days.

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:11 pm

I’m nowhere senior enough to be giving OP advice. That said, I know that in my market (SF), there’s an abundant litigation boutique scene. A number of well-regarded senior litigation associates from my (and peer) firms have lateraled over to that side. Might differ in markets that don’t have a strong biglaw-to-boutique culture.

gregfootball2001

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by gregfootball2001 » Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:17 pm
12YrsAnAssociate wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:50 pm
PriyaRai wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:46 am
Just crazy how hard it is to make partner in litigation.
True. I actually think I worked at OP's firm, which I liked a lot, but left because a v100 firm told me I'd be on partner track. I'm still an associate by the way, but I am up for partner this year and the litigation group is going to bat for me. If I don't make partner this year I'm going to ask to work remote and half time for half pay.

To OP, why do you want to be partner? Sounds like you have a great deal. If I were you I'd give it a shot where you're at and if it's a no then maybe cut back on hours or start to look at boutiques.
Anon OP here

I want to be a partner because I don’t want to be a 15th year associate. That is also the reason I’d take of counsel. Like how long are you really gonna voluntarily remain an associate, assuming the firm lets you forever? 20th year associate? At some point you gotta put an end to it.

Yeah, I suppose I’m leaning towards giving it a shot. To the extent they will ever make a commercial lit guy partner based on wins/skill/experience, I have to think I’d be at the top of that list. Of course, the concern is that doing something like that is just a nonstarter these days.
Before pushing for counsel, take a look at how counsel at your firm were treated financially over the past few years. Many firms did not raise counsel salaries to match the associate raises (or they waited a long time to do it).

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:11 pm
I’m nowhere senior enough to be giving OP advice. That said, I know that in my market (SF), there’s an abundant litigation boutique scene. A number of well-regarded senior litigation associates from my (and peer) firms have lateraled over to that side. Might differ in markets that don’t have a strong biglaw-to-boutique culture.
Appreciate it. The high level boutiques in my market are few and far between, and they pay considerably less. There used to be a handful, but the big guys came in and ate the really good ones.

But also the boutiques typically seem to take mid/junior lateral associates. Even if I could squeeze into that type of thing, I’d be sacrificing a lot of opportunity cost for what…maybe a slightly increased chance of partner?

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:23 pm

gregfootball2001 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:13 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:17 pm
12YrsAnAssociate wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:50 pm
PriyaRai wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:46 am
Just crazy how hard it is to make partner in litigation.
True. I actually think I worked at OP's firm, which I liked a lot, but left because a v100 firm told me I'd be on partner track. I'm still an associate by the way, but I am up for partner this year and the litigation group is going to bat for me. If I don't make partner this year I'm going to ask to work remote and half time for half pay.

To OP, why do you want to be partner? Sounds like you have a great deal. If I were you I'd give it a shot where you're at and if it's a no then maybe cut back on hours or start to look at boutiques.
Anon OP here

I want to be a partner because I don’t want to be a 15th year associate. That is also the reason I’d take of counsel. Like how long are you really gonna voluntarily remain an associate, assuming the firm lets you forever? 20th year associate? At some point you gotta put an end to it.

Yeah, I suppose I’m leaning towards giving it a shot. To the extent they will ever make a commercial lit guy partner based on wins/skill/experience, I have to think I’d be at the top of that list. Of course, the concern is that doing something like that is just a nonstarter these days.
Before pushing for counsel, take a look at how counsel at your firm were treated financially over the past few years. Many firms did not raise counsel salaries to match the associate raises (or they waited a long time to do it).
That’s a valid point. But, I’m less concerned with 20k here or 30k there at this point. From my perspective, counsel means two things: a real credible shot at equity partner as a lateral further down the amlaw, and also a much more credible platform from which to build business (via speaking engagements, publications, and the like). But even more importantly, having counsel feels like you’re more tenured than an associate…but maybe that’s wrong.

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:06 pm

Someone at my firm (V10) recently lateraled in as counsel in commercial litigation from an associate position at their prior firm, so it's doable. I've heard of others making similar moves lately. With your resume, seems worth exploring.

WhatIsLaw69

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by WhatIsLaw69 » Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:12 pm

Excuse the law student ignorance, but why does it seem like excellence in litigation is rewarded less frequently than mediocrity in corporate?

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:06 pm
Someone at my firm (V10) recently lateraled in as counsel in commercial litigation from an associate position at their prior firm, so it's doable. I've heard of others making similar moves lately. With your resume, seems worth exploring.
How is it going for them? Is there partnership potential? Amlaw100?

objctnyrhnr

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by objctnyrhnr » Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:41 pm

WhatIsLaw69 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:12 pm
Excuse the law student ignorance, but why does it seem like excellence in litigation is rewarded less frequently than mediocrity in corporate?
Because if we litigators had a way better/more enjoyable day to day AND ALSO strong partnership chances, it really just wouldn’t be fair to everybody else

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:45 pm

WhatIsLaw69 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:12 pm
Excuse the law student ignorance, but why does it seem like excellence in litigation is rewarded less frequently than mediocrity in corporate?
pretty sure it's just $$$

it's not a coincidence that the highest PPP firms are the strongest corporate shops.

12YrsAnAssociate

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by 12YrsAnAssociate » Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:07 pm

gregfootball2001 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:13 pm
Before pushing for counsel, take a look at how counsel at your firm were treated financially over the past few years. Many firms did not raise counsel salaries to match the associate raises (or they waited a long time to do it).
Good point. One reason I have actively resisted moving to counsel is that once I'm counsel the firm will be freer to take me off the Cravath scale, and fuck that.

12YrsAnAssociate

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by 12YrsAnAssociate » Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:09 pm

WhatIsLaw69 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:12 pm
Excuse the law student ignorance, but why does it seem like excellence in litigation is rewarded less frequently than mediocrity in corporate?
Because you haven't been at a biglaw firm during a recession, when the exact opposite is true.

dyemond

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Re: Senior lit associate unsure of next step

Post by dyemond » Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:18 pm

WhatIsLaw69 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:12 pm
Excuse the law student ignorance, but why does it seem like excellence in litigation is rewarded less frequently than mediocrity in corporate?

Because you’re a law student and reaching a bad conclusion.

The real question is why is it hard to make equity as a litigator at a big firm and the answer is that litigation isn’t really a “growth” practice; it does not scale well with an existing client as that client grows.

A PE firm starting out with a $500M fund that grows into a $5B fund over time will scale really nicely for the transactional team, but corporate litigation clients do not scale like this.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


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